2016 AI House Batteries and EMS Concerns

[Kathryn McA]

Since replacing the house batteries (by dealer) on my 2016 AI Ext Twin one year ago, I have the unit plugged into my house/garage 15amp outlet 80-90% of the time when not in use. I have kept the refrigerator on. On the EMS monitor panel, the auxillary battery reads 13.85.
My question: If, while still plugged into the 15amp outlet, I were to test multiple components (microwave, ac/furnace, water heater, pump, etc) at the same time, what would likely happen? Any damage to batteries or EMS?
Thanks in advance.

[Titus]

microwave, water heater, and AC will only run on shore power or generator - not batteries. With 15 amp shore power you can run the water heater or microwave but not the AC. With 20 amp (shore power or generator) you can run any one of the three. With 30 amp shore power you can run 2 of the 3. If you were to try to run more than you have amperage for the EMS will kick them out in priority order. EMS is set up for 20 amp or 30 amp, not 15 amp. If your EMS is set at 20 amp and you try to run the AC with only 15 amp supplied you will trip the 15 amp breaker feeding the shore power, but you will not hurt the EMS. (Though in 6 years I have never used the EMS, I just turn them on or off manually.) Furnace and water pump and other 12V stuff can run fine on the batteries for several hours before needing to recharge with shore power or generator (or more solar power than comes with the Interstate).

[Kathryn McA]

Here's my situation – I am selling my AI and just had it inspected by NRVIA Certified Inspector per request of out-of-state buyer. The day before the scheduled detailed 6-hr. inspection, the inspector called me to confirm the appointment, he told me RV will need to be hooked up to all the utilities…fresh water, electricity and sewer during the inspection. And, in order to test the generator, there must be at least a ¼ of a tank of gas in the fuel tank. In order to test the refrigerator, furnace and stove, there must be propane in the tank… and refrigerator must have been in operation for a least 12 hours (which the buyer had previous relayed to me prior to contracting inspector). He had already been made aware by the buyer that we would have to drive to dealer to test the macerator. I told the inspector, as I had the buyer, that the AI was hooked to only the 15amp garage outlet for keeping the house batteries charged and the refrigerator was turned on and cold but the operation of everything else should be able to be tested using the batteries or generator. He seemed to be ok with that.
Inspector and his assistant (wife) arrived at 9am and after giving them a brief tour of the van and pointing out the satchel of operation manuals on the floor she started on the inside and he outside. Before I walked away I watched him extend and retract the awning twice. One and half hour into the inspection I walked back over to the back of the van to see how it was going. They were both in the van. Inspector and wife were both in the van and they said the refrigerator, water pump, cooktop, TV’s, AC, and furnace had been checked and working. At present… they were having a problem with the GFCI breaker. (In his written report: ”The GFCI breaker inside the panel would not stay reset (would trip after 8-10 seconds. ). Recommend this be evaluated and addressed by a qualified RV technician.”). When I noticed that the power was still plugged in I said to them that I didn’t think that everything could be operated when hooked up to 15amp outlet. Then inspector gets out of van and checks the batteries beneath and tells me the problem is that I have bad batteries; they are reading only 2amp. With a taste of vomit in my mouth, I asked them if they had used the generator – at which point he points out to her the location of the switch. Needless to say, the generator did not turn on. Then he noticed there was not juice to the power cord – the house breaker had been tripped. Fast forward to the end of the 5-hr inspection, the engine running, the awning would extend but had to be manually retracted. Lastly, the
Question: Are the AGM batteries toast after being drained down to 2 amps? They were installed new by dealer at the time of my last warranty check Nov. 2019. During my final walk-through everything was operational and to knowledge everything was operational the day prior to this “certified inspection” five days ago.

[Wazbro]

I don't know what is meant by 2 amps for the batteries.
My guess is that was supposed to be 2 volts.
If the batteries were down to 2 volts they were damaged but may not be shot.
Charge them and see how they do. Tell the person you are dealing with about the incompetence/ignorance of the "inspectors" not listening to your warning and tripping the breaker then trying to run everything off the inverter without realizing it and damage they may have caused to the batteries. The buyer may want to upgrade to better batteries if they need to be replaced.

[Titus]

Bunch of (unrelated i think) issues.

Awning is powered by the engine battery (at least my 2013 is) and having it extend but not retract is not a battery issue - especially if the battery had enough juice to start the engine is.

Inspector is an idiot. You do not have a gas tank. You have a diesel tank - fuel for the engine. And a propane tank for the generator, water heater, and furnace.

There may be some sort of interlock that cuts off power to the awning if the engine is running. I would have hoped that the interlock prevented extending it, but maybe it only prevents retracting it. Fact that it worked twice while you watched makes me think the inspector is not only an idiot, but also dishonest and is trying to get an undeserved discount for the buyer.
As stated in my previous post, trying the AC on 15A shore power likely blew the shore power breaker - not at all the fault of the Interstate.

going outside the van and checking the 'batteries beneath': Aren't the two coach batteries inside the van, beneath the lounge seat? Coach and chassis battery voltage (not amp) by the rocker switch in the control panel. He did not need to get to the batteries (wherever they are!)


I don't think any of the things he did could get the batteries down to 2 amps (he musta meant volts). The generator would not have started with 2V, (or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or 8 or 9 or maybe even 10V). Likely would have needed 11+V to start the generator. The batteries definitely didn't like being drawn down to 2 Amp - but I wouldn't trust the inspector when he says they were. But if they were promptly recharged the harm may not have been fatal. (But the Magnum may not charge them if they truly were that low. you may need a 'dumb' charger that charges them regardless of the state of charge.) Again he may be lying in order to get a better deal for the buyer.

Somewhere I think I read/heard that a GFCI breaker (ie the one in the Interstate) does not like to be fed by another GFCI circuit. I suspect your shore power is GFCI protected. That may be why your Interstate GFCI tripped. If it didn't trip when using the generator then it would seem to be OK.

Not sure why he couldn't test the macerator by draining a little out of the grey tank into your yard.

Good luck.

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

I don't know what is meant by 2 amps for the batteries.
My guess is that was supposed to be 2 volts.
If the batteries were down to 2 volts they were damaged but may not be shot.
Charge them and see how they do. Tell the person you are dealing with about the incompetence/ignorance of the "inspectors" not listening to your warning and tripping the breaker then trying to run everything off the inverter without realizing it and damage they may have caused to the batteries. The buyer may want to upgrade to better batteries if they need to be replaced.

Your input is greatly appreciated. You guessed right. I misspoke - He did write in his report "When battery voltage was tested with converter and engine alternator off, the battery voltage read 2.2 VOLTS." Mind you this test was done after he had operated the furnace, AC, cooktop, pump, water heater, etc. and tripped the breakers. For 5 days I have been charging them on 15 amp shore power and they are at 13.25 and the main battery is at 13.29 (according to the interior monitor panel). Prior to the inspection the house batteries were at 13.85 and the main battery has never been less than 14. I plan to drive it tomorrow and see what happens. In hindsight I wish that I had stayed in the van with the owner's manual open and irritated the hell out of them.

[Hawk-ination]

The power availability is perplexing in the Interstate and should be better explained to owners in the manual.

I agree with what Titus said so no use me adding to his comments.

Your inspector didn’t understand how this RV works so he should have some liability in your batteries possibly being damaged by drawing them down that far.

They might still hold a charge but any time an AGM is taken down that far it can cause damage and it won’t hold the charge like it did before. I’d have a discussion with him about replacing the batteries at their expense. His inspection was flawed due to not understanding the BMS system in your coach and what can run on what power and when.

It’s not exactly easy for us owners to even figure that out so don’t feel like you are at fault either!

Just my two cents.

[Kathryn McA]

I have the Fiamma awning on my 2016 and I couldn't swear to it's source of energy. To use it, I have the disconnect switch on. I do know that it will not extend with the engine running but will retract with the engine running. I have no idea why it would not retract when it had extended and retracted twice perfectly 5-6 hours before or his purpose in extending it again.( I have not yet checked the fuse.) At that point my last nerve was shot and we had yet to drive 10 miles to test the macerator at my dealer's dumping station. In hindsight and had I been thinking straight, I should have insisted he test it on my property since I knew there was no solid waste in the black water tank and I live on 25 acres for Pete's sake! However, the drive probably charged the batteries enough to be able to extend the discharge hose. As he was turning on the pumps he told me he was going to turn on the grey water pump first but due to the proximity of the freeway noise I did not hear his reason for doing so. Nor could I hear the pumps from where I was standing but he determined the pumps were not working. I had to start and run the engine for a few minutes before being able to slowly retract the hose. Lucky for him or he would be running along side carrying the hose as I drove back home.

Regarding the batteries: On my 2016 Ext Twin, they are located beneath, behind the tires on the driver's side. I don't know why he went beneath and I didn't get up into the coach to check the monitor panel. By the end of the day (Friday)the batteries did recharge; on Tues. they were at 12.91; today (Thurs) at 13.25 . They were at 13.85 as when he arrived on the scene.

You could be right, but at this time I don't think he was trying to get the price discounted for the buyer. However, I do believe he is inept and somewhat dishonest.

The buyer has never owned an RV. He is in California and I am in Texas. We've had several conversations by phone, text, and email. He was anxious to purchase before pandemic conditions became worse. He had asked if I would be agreeable to having it inspected prior to his flying here to make the transaction and driving it back to California. He would pay for the inspection and report and if for any reason he could not follow through with the purchase he would give me the report to use in selling. I thought that was a prudent thing to do for both of us. I told the buyer I expected it to go well - barring any surprises. The night of the inspection I texted him There were surprises and I'm not sure which issues were exposed and which issues were caused by inspector. My head is spinning and I'm having an adult beverage now! The next evening, buyer emailed me the 82 page report he received from inspector. The more I read, the more lived I became and kicking myself for not sitting in the coach with the operating manual and micromanaging the entire inspection. Numerous items were broken or non-functioning but they certainly were not broken the day before. Two items I use most frequently even when not traveling - the bathroom exhaust vent and the larger Fantastik vent/fan.
Inspector's report reads bathroom vent won't open and plastic fan blades are broken. This is where I think he's somewhat dishonest. I know exactly what happened. He (or she) pushed the fan switch with the vent closed. I had just the day before opened and used compressed air to blow out the lady bugs and the blades were not broken then or after I shut the vent. The bathroom faucet broken, power shades, etc. etc. etc.
If I had the available time to deal with all these issues, I would not even be selling my coach - I would be roadtripping. I hate having to sell my AI but family issues and farm maintenance are requiring my time and budget at this time.
So on Sunday the buyer tells me he still wants to purchase if I am willing to have all the issues taken care of and btw, the inspector is insured if he broke anything, and buyer asks me not to be stressed with the time issue because he is now in lockdown until January 5 at the earliest. I have never used anyone but the Airstream dealer maintenance. I can't even get appointment with the dealer to look at it before January 5... then they keep it for a month. So I'm on the hunt for a mobile certified RV technician. And as for proving the inspector broke or caused anything to malfunction? How is that handled? Threaten him with a bad review?
Thank you for participating in my pity party and sharing your knowledge, wisdom, and opinions. I think you are on the right track with the GFCI breaker info. It tripped long before she tried the generator in my presence. And he makes no mention in his report that they used or tried to use before.

Again, many thanks!

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

The power availability is perplexing in the Interstate and should be better explained to owners in the manual.

I agree with what Titus said so no use me adding to his comments.

Your inspector didn’t understand how this RV works so he should have some liability in your batteries possibly being damaged by drawing them down that far.

They might still hold a charge but any time an AGM is taken down that far it can cause damage and it won’t hold the charge like it did before. I’d have a discussion with him about replacing the batteries at their expense. His inspection was flawed due to not understanding the BMS system in your coach and what can run on what power and when.

It’s not exactly easy for us owners to even figure that out so don’t feel like you are at fault either!

Just my two cents.

Your two cents are greatly appreciated!

I don't pretend to know anything about electrical systems other than to respect them. I do read and follow instructions. I do know that inspector had never been inside of an Airstream Interstate. I would have stayed in the coach and micromanaged had there not be two inspecting. Three was a bit crowded.

(Note to Self: Don't assume that someone understands what you are telling him - or the importance thereof.)

[Wazbro]

Another thing about GFCI many will not reset if they don't have power.

[Titus]

I see on the forum that many bathroom fan blades have broken - speculation is that the sun damages them. But it does seem odd that they were fine the day before and broke right when the inspector tested them. I still find it hard to believe that the batteries were down to 2.2 volts with what he did over the course of 5 hours. If he switched on the invertor and then powered things through it that would have drawn the batteries down quickly, but I think it is programmed to cut out at 10ish volts - to protect the batteries. If the batteries got back to 13+V and stayer there I think you are OK.

I don't think that turning on the fan with the vent closed would break the blades.

If you wanted to experiment I think you'd find that the awing also works with the disconnect off - because it is powered by the chassis battery.

[Pahaska]

Turning on the vent fan with it closed will break the blades.

[Pahaska]

Never, ever allow anyone not used to Interstates to touch anything without supervision, no matter what expertise they claim. If we have guests, we sleep in the Interstate in the driveway.

[Heckler56]

I had my pole barn wired last summer so I could plug in the AI with a 30amp line. Electrical inspector said it needed to be GFI. Electrician argued you cannot GFI to GFI or it will blow. Luckily the electrician provided whatever the pages in the current standards which provide no GFI requirement on 30amp. BTW, they don’t make a 30amp GFI. Unfortunately the new electrical standards under review call for a 30amp GFI, guess they better start manufacturing one....

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Turning on the vent fan with it closed will break the blades.

Thanks, John.
I never, never have in the past. But Man! Did I screw up this time.
Expensive lesson learned.

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Never, ever allow anyone not used to Interstates to touch anything without supervision, no matter what expertise they claim. If we have guests, we sleep in the Interstate in the driveway.

Thanks, John.
I never, never have in the past. But Man! Did I screw up this time.
Expensive lesson learned.

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Pahaska

Turning on the vent fan with it closed will break the blades.

I would have assumed that any adult would know that. I did see it happen, but when inspector wrote in his report that the vent wouldn't open and plastic blades were broken there is no doubt that he or she turned on the fan. I am not pleased.

[Kathryn McA]

Originally Posted by Heckler56

I had my pole barn wired last summer so I could plug in the AI with a 30amp line. Electrical inspector said it needed to be GFI. Electrician argued you cannot GFI to GFI or it will blow. Luckily the electrician provided whatever the pages in the current standards which provide no GFI requirement on 30amp. BTW, they don’t make a 30amp GFI. Unfortunately the new electrical standards under review call for a 30amp GFI, guess they better start manufacturing one....

Good to know. Thanks!

[Titus]

Good to know about the vent fan. I have apparently never accidentally turned it on before opening the vent, and will be sure to not do so. The vent is a bit difficult to open and close if pushing with one hand in the middle of the handle - which looks like the obvious thing to do since it looks to be a hand grip. My hand grip broke in the middle and have put a wooden splint across it. I now put one hand on each side so as to push/pull directly on the two side pieces that go up and down. The wooden splint doesn't do much besides keeping the two sides aligned.

[Hawk-ination]

Kathryn, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I was trying to say. What I meant is that Airstream does a poor job of explaining what works at what point on the electrical system. They need to greatly improve their instructions in their manual for us owners who don't get the in-person walk through or for even those who do.

I certainly meant no disrespect to what you do or don't know! We went through a very large learning curve ourselves and had to fix some things that had been damaged from an unknowing owner before we owned the coach and also self-inflicted issues, such as leaving our batteries drain past the point of no return thinking the solar would keep them charged and not understanding the parasitic draw on the coach when we were new owners. I'm still learning certain things after owning the coach after a year.

It's sad that your inspector caused that much damage. I still think any company providing a professional service should be liable for the damage they caused. I was trying to say that I don't think you should feel bad for what you didn't know they were going to do or exactly what power needs to be on or not during an inspection like that. It's their liability to know and not mess up your Airstream. Feel bad for you.