2015 AI Motor seized at 69K miles

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

IT'S COMPLICATED. Here we get down the rat-hole of inquiry as to deals that these business entities have worked out among themselves on a state-by-state basis, and all the unintended consequences that come with them. There's an internal term that they have defined - "red state" - which has nothing to do with politics (I think red means "stop" like a stop sign - as in, stop warranty work). That's the term they use to describe states in which only Mercedes can honor Mercedes warranties. In non-red states, there is reciprocation and cross-warranty honoring going on.

It's complicated and it leads to some bizarre outcomes. I had to get my Sprinter engine replaced at Freightliner because Mercedes could not obtain a reconditioned long block. Such a thing was outside of the bounds of what they had been authorized to do.

What?!

Yup. I researched it exhaustively. Mercedes was pinned to more restrictive options because of the policies that had been set between the corporate players. Freightliner had the liberty to think outside the box because they were not Mercedes. My engine came from Detroit Diesel via Freightliner. Detroit Diesel was an "approved" or "certified" source for Mercedes Sprinter engines, but Mercedes itself could not obtain them there.

AND it becomes even MORE interesting when you have a DODGE Sprinter. Mercedes won't touch them, at least not here. Dodge, of course, is required to service them, but there aren't many Dodge dealers left who even know that they once SOLD Sprinters, much less have mechanics with significant Sprinter experience. Daimler's divorce from Chrysler, and Fiat's marriage TO Chrysler have made Dodge Sprinters the stepchild that no one wants to deal with since the Ducato is now the official "Chrysler" van...

Yeah. It's complicated.

[ITSNO60]

Two things nobody has mentioned,
1. You need to have an oil sample pulled by someone not associated with Mercedes and have it analyzed by Blackstone Labs, if there is fuel dilution you may have a case as the fuel system and injectors may fall under the EPA mandated extended emissions warranty (I know for a fact that is the case with VW diesels, the entire fuel system is covered). An independent oil analysis can reveal clues as to what happened and if I had an engine fail I would certainly want to have the oil analyzed. Blackstone will send you the sample kits free.

2. Sprinters have been around long enough that there are good independent
service & repair facilities in most major cities which may be an affordable option on an engine.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Is your local Freightliner dealer a Sprinter shop? Not all Freightliner dealers sell or service Sprinters, just like not all Mercedes dealers sell and service Sprinters.

Yep, absolutely, our local Freightliner is a certified Sprinter shop. I suspect that, as Interblog has suggested, "It's complicated."

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

Yep, absolutely, our local Freightliner is a certified Sprinter shop. I suspect that, as Interblog has suggested, "It's complicated."

Yes - Florida state laws may make it complicated.

[dog_tired]

Unfortunately I may not add too much here, other than about 10 years ago we owned a MB Sprinter 5cyl diesel ("Pleasureway"). I spent countless hours on "sprinter" forums, learning as much as I could about the vehicle.

Accordingly, I "second" the suggestion that you go to the Sprinter forums. There are quite a few excellent mechanics and owners over there who can help you out. The MB has a knowns history of the issues with some older models. There was one mechanic in PA who was specializing in engine repairs. You may be able to find information on a recall or other repair obligation for MB as a result of some poor operating history.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by dog_tired

..... There was one mechanic in PA who was specializing in engine repairs. .....

The OP already cut to the chase on that one. I texted her his contact info last week. Whatever wisdom may be contained within the totality of Sprinter Forum, it's already summarized in his head.

[Mansderm161]

Just curious...does anyone know if something like this could happen if regular gas was used instead of diesel? Several have posted about close calls with green handles not always being diesel. Just curious.

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by Mansderm161

Just curious...does anyone know if something like this could happen if regular gas was used instead of diesel? Several have posted about close calls with green handles not always being diesel. Just curious.

I don't know about the symptom question, but I can definitely say that I was within eyeshot of a BP station recently, while getting a tire checked next door at Discount Tire for a slow leak. The handles on the BP gasoline pumps were green. None of their pumps offered diesel, as far as I could tell. You have been warned. [emoji33]

[dznf0g]

The diesel pumps are always easily distinguishable. They are the ones smeared black and greasy...oh...and the pavement next to the pump looks like asphalt.

[Rocinante]

Haha, yes, I've definitely seen those messy diesel pumps from time to time, but certainly not "always."

[jacdimarco]

Thanks everyone. The new motor will be in Friday. No news on what happened to her but she will be fixed and back on the road Oct 23 if all goes as planned. It is cold here in Chicago soI will not be taking her on a roadtrip until next year. Thanks, again, for all your ideas.

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by jacdimarco

Thanks everyone. The new motor will be in Friday. No news on what happened to her but she will be fixed and back on the road Oct 23 if all goes as planned. It is cold here in Chicago soI will not be taking her on a roadtrip until next year. Thanks, again, for all your ideas.

Someone asked earlier, did you ever have a oil sample pulled and analyzed by a independent company?

I just got results on mine with 18,000 miles. Really interesting and concerning. The tech gave me a oil education so deep I have already forgot 1/2 of it.

It would be great to see what the OP or any others have as sample results.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Rocinante

The handles on the BP gasoline pumps were green. None of their pumps offered diesel, as far as I could tell. You have been warned. [emoji33]

But for the grace of god, I almost put 80 gallons of gas in my diesel tank. The card reader was being flaky and didn't take the card. Suddenly, I realized "OH, MY GOD, it's gas with a green handle!"

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

But for the grace of god, I almost put 80 gallons of gas in my diesel tank. The card reader was being flaky and didn't take the card. Suddenly, I realized "OH, MY GOD, it's gas with a green handle!"

Driving diesels for over 20 years and I still get nervous every tank fill!

[Hawk-ination]

After owning a machine shop and selling reman engines, the cause of any engine that doesn’t go as far as it should and blowing up is a mystery until sent into a professional and reputable rebuilder. There’s many issues that could have happened, but one I came across in researching some engine codes in the past is called “black death”. If you are curious, I’d say Google the topic of MB Sprinter Black Death and see if you’ve come across it yet. Fuel, injectors, tolerances, and lubrication are all important in our MB engines, and sometimes it’s outside our hands what happens and why.

Although I am far from being an expert, many places point to the fact if you put gas in your diesel engine, there’s a whole lot of smoke that blows out the tailpipe. I don’t think I’ve seen a place that points out that gas will seize an engine immediately, either. This poor owner is probably about sick having to spend this much to get his 69,000 mile engine put back in. I know I would be.

Just saying, just a consideration it could totally not be gas in the engine, either. Maybe it isn’t helpful to lean on a subject that there’s absolutely no proof he caused the damage to his own engine. Put yourself in his shoes.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Heckler56

Someone asked earlier, did you ever have a oil sample pulled and analyzed by a independent company?

I just got results on mine with 18,000 miles. Really interesting and concerning. The tech gave me a oil education so deep I have already forgot 1/2 of it.

It would be great to see what the OP or any others have as sample results.

Of course, I have a T1N with the OM-647 five cylinder... but I've had three samples analyzed now since I bought it at 105k miles. I've got about 117k on it now. I had a sample taken when I bought it, then changed the oil and have one about every 5k miles. No concerns at all with mine with 12k on this oil change. I've attached a .pdf copy of the report.

[Heckler56]

Originally Posted by 85MH325

Of course, I have a T1N with the OM-647 five cylinder... but I've had three samples analyzed now since I bought it at 105k miles. I've got about 117k on it now. I had a sample taken when I bought it, then changed the oil and have one about every 5k miles. No concerns at all with mine with 12k on this oil change. I've attached a .pdf copy of the report.

Thank you! So here is a comparison (I won’t get the written report for another week).
Mine is a 2016 AI, 18k miles, 3k miles since oil change:
Iron = 37.67
Alum = 18.93
Nichol = 8.73
Copper = 4.47
Tin = 6.81

As a comparison race cars Iron after a 24 hour race is only 6ppm. Your engine is just getting there with 117k miles. So basically my main bearings and lower crank have more wear than a engine beaten for 24 hours in a race or your engine with 100k more miles.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Heckler56

Thank you! So here is a comparison (I won’t get the written report for another week).
Mine is a 2016 AI, 18k miles, 3k miles since oil change:
Iron = 37.67
Alum = 18.93
Nichol = 8.73
Copper = 4.47
Tin = 6.81

As a comparison race cars Iron after a 24 hour race is only 6ppm. Your engine is just getting there with 117k miles. So basically my main bearings and lower crank have more wear than a engine beaten for 24 hours in a race or your engine with 100k more miles.

Wow. Just wow. That's a "what next, coach?" kind of report.

[Mansderm161]

Originally Posted by Heckler56

Driving diesels for over 20 years and I still get nervous every tank fill!

I just met someone who filled the tank with regular gas at BP. She has the Mercedes sprinter with SOB B van. She didn't get far from gas station when it just stopped. She waited 4 hours for a 1 mile tow to a shop that said "it happens all the time." They drained it, filled with diesel and put some kind of additive in. It's running, but she said it occasionally still makes a chug sound. She was heading to Mercedes after the campout.

Mercedes told me early on not to add any additives or my engine warranty would be void. I'm supposing putting regular gas in voids the warranty too so putting the additive in probably doesn't matter.

As for the "dirty" pump handle. I pulled into a Loves gas station. As I got ready to fill I panicked because the handle and nozzle were shiny clean...but it actually was diesel! Don't know if they occasionally clean them or if that was a new pump.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by Hawk-ination

After owning a machine shop and selling reman engines, the cause of any engine that doesn’t go as far as it should and blowing up is a mystery until sent into a professional and reputable rebuilder. There’s many issues that could have happened, but one I came across in researching some engine codes in the past is called “black death”. If you are curious, I’d say Google the topic of MB Sprinter Black Death and see if you’ve come across it yet. Fuel, injectors, tolerances, and lubrication are all important in our MB engines, and sometimes it’s outside our hands what happens and why.

Although I am far from being an expert, many places point to the fact if you put gas in your diesel engine, there’s a whole lot of smoke that blows out the tailpipe. I don’t think I’ve seen a place that points out that gas will seize an engine immediately, either. This poor owner is probably about sick having to spend this much to get his 69,000 mile engine put back in. I know I would be.

Just saying, just a consideration it could totally not be gas in the engine, either. Maybe it isn’t helpful to lean on a subject that there’s absolutely no proof he caused the damage to his own engine. Put yourself in his shoes.

The lubricating oils for DPF equipped vehicles are lacking in the lubrication qualities of the older oils IMHO. They took the zinc out because it shortens the life of the SCR system components which the manufacturer has to warranty. The possibility of engine failure due to the lack of zinc is slim during the warranty period while the failure of the SCR system while still under warranty is great if the oil contains high levels of zinc, again IMHO. So the most cost effective path for the manufacturers to take is protect the SCR system (which will have to be fixed on their dime) at the cost of possible accelerated engine wear which, if causes failure down the road, will be out of warranty. There is at least one proponent of using non-recommended oils to protect the engine, as it is far cheaper to repair and replace SCR system components than the engine. His claim is that it is the timing chain and sprockets are the first casualties of the new oils, resulting in sudden catastrophic failure. His blog is here, it's quite long but the part about the timing chain failure is down about 11 paragraphs (counting the first very long paragraph with the bullet points as one paragraph): http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/

I have been researching oils for a while, even when the new Rotella 15/40 CK oil (DPF Safe) came out in 2018 Ford did not approve it for their engines, claiming they saw accelerated wear in their testing.

As a side note I am picking up a Sprinter based MH this morning.