Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-20-2008, 07:24 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
Alumatube's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,094
Anyone familiar with the Belgian Malinois dog breed?

Our property got burgled (lightly) last weekend and our dog didn't say a word. He's a sweet black Lab mix but has not been real responsive when someone comes down the driveway, etc. He is in a large chain-link back yard with a good view of the driveway and parking areas (where the stuff was taken from).

I want to get a better guard-type dog (and Shadow probably needs a friend anyway), so started looking around. I thought, hey, what about a retired police dog, and called the local K-9 training academy. They actually have a Belgian Malinois (probably Dutch Shepherd mix, since he is black and the pure Malinois is fawn to mahogany with black points) that failed out of training since he didn't have the fight drive they need for patrol dogs, and we went up to see him. Pic attached...

Click image for larger version

Name:	Roscoe sits 1 1-19-08.JPG
Views:	311
Size:	286.9 KB
ID:	52899

He is about 1 1/2 years old. He has a very effective bark with an occasional very satisfying snap of the jaws. He is trained to search (but he is not keyed to drugs or anything specific yet, and won't be) and to try to take a person down (they demonstrated him with a padded arm). He seemed friendly but was very focused on working - he was always in motion (very similar to our current dog - you can't get him to hold still to be petted).

In the research I have done, I have found that these dogs appear to be high-energy dogs and very intent and focused on work. They are overall very loving and friendly, but also very protective. The police have started using them a lot over German Shepherds due to their smaller size and personality traits.

Anyone out there familiar with this breed, and what do you think? He would be in a 70' x 70' chain-link enclosure with another dog of his size, and they would have the ball thrown for them a lot and walks and possible trail rides. Would he self-destruct if left all day in the yard while we are at work? Or destroy everything back there (which is what the other dog has mostly done)? The academy will let us test-drive him, but we would have to hot-wire the yard first since it is only a 4' chainlink fence and he could get right over that.

Is there a better dog for protection that may not be so high-energy?

Thanks for any input!

Susan
__________________
"Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?"

1984 310 Limited Motor Home "The Rockin' A"
Alumatube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 08:39 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
soldiermedic's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Florissant , USA
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,083
Susan,

I knew a police K-9 officer who would always take his B.M over a German Sheppard any day of the week. He said that the BM registered higher on the strength scale for bite and aggressiveness when dealing with a perp.

Steve
__________________
Streaming Soldiers Blog
soldiermedic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 10:53 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Fyrzowt's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
Images: 8
While I don't consider myself an expert, I have done some work with our K-9 (as "bait" or the "bad guy") and have seen our dogs in action.
There are several breeds that work well for protection, certainly the B.Malinois is one.
The only real ding I've heard on them is that they are very active, and they are escape artists. Contact a Malinois rescue organization, they will be able to give you info on some of those traits.
Other breeds that I like and have worked with are the Shepherd and Rottweiler.
Dave
Fyrzowt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 11:05 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Jim Clark's Avatar
 
2012 28' International
Currently Looking...
New Orleans , Louisiana
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,077
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldiermedic
Susan,

I knew a police K-9 officer who would always take his B.M over a German Sheppard any day of the week. He said that the BM registered higher on the strength scale for bite and aggressiveness when dealing with a perp.

Steve
Sorry to hear some scum took advantage of you. Nice looking dog. My brother was a K-9 cop and had a great dog which he kept after the dog was retired. The problem he had was liability issues, dog got out of an enclosed run and bit someone, be sure to find out what the ramifications are of having a trained dog on your property, if he gets out and takes someone down ( off of your property) as he is trained to do I am sure you would have a legal issue. The need for an electric wire would raise a lot of flags on the legal front. A lot of guard dog services provide dogs which are trained to bark and not much more for this reason. Every one knows you cut a hole in the fence and lure the dog out with a steak or a female in heat, it works in the movies. It is ashame that in this country that citizens are forced to take such extreme measures to protect their property. All that being said he is a handsome pup and I would be proud to own him.
__________________
Jim N5TJZ Air# 174
2012 International Serenity 28
2005 Safari 25 SS Traded
1968 Globetrotter Sold
2011 F150 Ecoboost
Jim Clark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2008, 11:16 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Fyrzowt's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
West of Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,699
Images: 8
Quote:
The problem he had was liability issues, dog got out of an enclosed run and bit someone, be sure to find out what the ramifications are of having a trained dog on your property, if he gets out and takes someone down ( off of your property) as he is trained to do I am sure you would have a legal issue.
How your dog behaves and responds while "working" vs not, depends to a large degree on it's training.
When our dogs are not working, when around the station, etc they generally are very mellow and playful. The way we trained our dogs, this "aggression" was actually play. They were rewarded when they performed the desired response. Once the training was over, we always made sure the dog "made friends" with the "bad guy".
How each dog is trained will depend greatly on the type of disposition it displays.

A dog that will alert by barking without the protection training, may be just as effective for you without the liability concerns.
Dave
Fyrzowt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 05:45 AM   #6
Just an old timer...
 
85MH325's Avatar

 
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton , Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,760
Images: 37
Check with your attorney and state and local authorities regarding "maintaining a vicious animal". In our jurisdiction a "vicious animal" is any animal that bites "or menaces" a person or another animal. Merely possessing such an animal is a misdemeanor. They are rarely effective against crooks, and generally get you sued by some person who was on your property lawfully.

Also check with your homeowner's insurance carrier. You might be surprised at what they have to day about owning a "guard dog".

Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
85MH325 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 06:40 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
juel's Avatar

 
1976 31' Sovereign
Currently Looking...
Chandler , Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,770
Images: 24
I'm confused. Were you home when the theft happened? If you were not home, how do you know your present dog didn't alert. Also if this new dog cannot get to the people stealing your stuff, and you are not home, will a dog inside a fence with a hotwire really scare off someone experienced in stealing? I have shown Standard Poodles (50-70 lbs.) and have found them to be extremely protective of me and my things; however, I would not recommend them to anyone because of their extensive need for grooming. I myself no long have any Standards because I just don't have time for the upkeep. I now have two Poms and a Jack Russell that would happily tear off the leg of anyone trying to get near my property. Talk about barking and snapping. They are not large dogs; however, no one gets in my house or my yard unless I let them in. They are not destructive either, but are high energy. But who cares, they aren't big enough to cause a lot of trouble, they eat less, clean up is less and they go in the trailer easily. I never thought I would have little dogs, but these wee beasties are protective lions in their hearts.
juel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 07:49 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Alumatube's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,094
Thanks, everyone! That is the one thing I kept coming back to - do we need a protective dog, or just an alerting dog? Brad was home during the theft, and was not awakened by our current dog. I am very uncomfortable with the thought of a dog that might hurt people who have a right to be on our property and I really don't think this one is the right one for me in this circumstance. I really don't want a dog to go after someone, just to let us know that something is going on and to be menacing enough that a perp would avoid the area.

Dave, they do the same thing with their dogs at this academy - it was great watching the dog go after the "bad guy" and then be friendly to him afterward. And thanks for the info in post #3 - I knew they were active but not the escape artist part.

And to clarify - this was a friendly, well-adjusted dog until he was specifically put to work, not a dog that acted vicious or mean in any way.

Thanks again for the thoughts and experiences. I have decided this dog is not the one for us, and will look for a dog that is an alert dog and not a guard dog.

Susan
__________________
"Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?"

1984 310 Limited Motor Home "The Rockin' A"
Alumatube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 08:20 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Melody Ranch's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
1953 32' Liner
1955 22' Safari
Valley View , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,971
Images: 78
Send a message via Skype™ to Melody Ranch
I love these guys!

Australian Shepherd.

Only one problem with an Aussie....they are smarter than humans....and they know it.

Great companions, possessive (of both their human and their territory) playful, etc, etc. I can't say enough good about them.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Prissy on guard.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	56.0 KB
ID:	52914  
Melody Ranch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 08:32 AM   #10
3 Rivet Member
 
jacarape's Avatar
 
2006 25' Safari
orlando , New Mexico, Utah, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 156
Actually a Malinois may be for you, if you devote the time to it. They need a job, and to be active. They are smart and not have had the brains bred out of them for type. There are diferent personality types as in all dogs, some are more suitable for bite work, SAR or pets. They bond very closely and can be excellent family pets. A USAF K-9 guy said they really like the breed, very good at bite work, and excellent in their houses and around the family.

It is very, very important to purchase from a good breeder, and maybe one that has been acclimated/socialized, to avoid eating cats and things...The breeder that I am going to work (I start 1 Feb) for takes them into town to acclimate them to people, teach social skills and discipline. Some also use them in Agility competition, which is a testament to their speed and intelligence.


They are not a breed to leave in a fenced yard, but then any home protection dog needs to be trained in an ongoing time. If you are not willing to spend the time with a Malinois, you probably won't have success with any breed. To have a dog that alerts but not bite will still take training dedication on your part. A Malinois will outjump, out bite, out run, out smart anything out there, which is why every police organiziation from Israel to the US Military uses them. Remember that these are organizations that can't have vicious dogs as they work with the public.

For a good animal, you may experience sticker schock at the price. I start at the kennel 1 Feb, we'll also rent horses during the tourist season. I'll be there with my AS parked and will also be able to offer free parking. See you all on the road!

BR-michael
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DOGS NYX SNIFFING SEPT 07.jpg
Views:	214
Size:	126.2 KB
ID:	52915   Click image for larger version

Name:	DOGS NYX SEP 07 RUNNING FORWARD.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	80.4 KB
ID:	52916  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DOGS NYX STANDING NIBBLING OFF POST SEPT 07.jpg
Views:	258
Size:	157.6 KB
ID:	52917  
__________________
I'm a true bum, working less and living longer.

WBCCI #3841
jacarape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 09:01 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
guy99's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Dunsmuir , California
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,336
Images: 16
The mastiff breeds have a history as estate protection animals (we have a Dogue de Bordeaux). A good one is calm and easy going around family and friends but its presence and demeanor will denture many intruders.

Rottweilers are great family dogs and very selective protectors if they are properly socialized. Due to excessive popularity, poor breeding, and improper handling, they have a bad reputation and might be a problem with your insurance.

Unless you have a lot of time to work with them I don't think you want a dog which was selected for police work (even if it failed) they tend to be very active and can be a problem if you can't keep them occupied.

Another possibility would be one of the herd protection breeds such as the Great Pyrenees. They are generally calm and easy going but are very protective of family and property especially outdoors. They bark a lot if let out at night. They also tend to be suspicious of other dogs (look like predators to them) unless they are well socialized.

If all you want is an alarm, the smaller breeds will do fine. Be careful about getting a breed/individual dog who 'alarms' more than you find acceptable.
__________________
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion - The Dalai Lama

1984 310 Limited Motorhome
Courtesy Parking (W/S/E/Wi-Fi) on I-5 in Northern California, 70 miles from Oregon border
guy99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 09:19 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
cameront120's Avatar
 
1972 25' Tradewind
North Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,421
Images: 23
Both my labs will bark at anyone who comes up the walk to my home. It's enough to deter anyone who isn't supposed to be there. Friends know that the boys are just barking a greeting. I'm fine with strangers not knowing this.

I know a woman with two BM's. Very busy dogs. Always active and always need a job. The older one is pretty mellow now, but the youngster goes through agility several nights a week.
__________________
Cameron & the Labradors, Kai & Samm
North Vancouver, BC
Live! Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death! - Mame Dennis
cameront120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 10:06 AM   #13
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
Unless your neighborhood is really gone downhill, I don't know that I would get too worked up over a one time thing. We had our cars gone through in out driveway once when I was a kid, and it never happened again in 20+ years.

Have you considered working with the current dog to train him to bark more?

If you really want a barker, get an Eskimo - they'll let you know when someone's in your yard, on your street, down the block, in the next block over...
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 10:55 AM   #14
Rivet Master
 
Alumatube's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,094
Hey Steph,

How do you train a dog to bark more (and at the right things)? I have been trying to research that on the Internet and most people say you can't really do it.

The other thing I am afraid of is getting a nuisance barker. Neither Brad nor I could handle that at all.

That is exactly what happened to us - our cars were gone through and little things taken (like my change, my phone hands-free cord and the cables for my satellite radio - radio was in the house). They also tried to steal the battery out of our renter's tractor (he lives on the front of our property) and broke into his trailer and went through it (but didn't find anything to steal there, thank goodness!). The policeman who responded said that thieves often came back to the same properties again, since they may have noticed other things they wanted but didn't get the first time.

Susan
__________________
"Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?"

1984 310 Limited Motor Home "The Rockin' A"
Alumatube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 11:37 AM   #15
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
As I understand it, it would involve starting with things like knocking on the door and get them really excited so they bark, reward him, do that for a while until you have a good reaction to a door knock, then move on to outside, have a friend walk up (preferably someone he doesn't know well to start with) and get really excited and encourage him to bark, reward, etc. Of course once you've opened that can of worms, there's no telling how much barking you'll get!

Eskimos are definitly 'nuisance barkers' But we love her anyway. She tells the other dogs when to bark!
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 11:47 AM   #16
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Airhog1's Avatar
 
1975 31' Sovereign
Searcy , Arkansas
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameront120
Both my labs will bark at anyone who comes up the walk to my home. It's enough to deter anyone who isn't supposed to be there. Friends know that the boys are just barking a greeting. I'm fine with strangers not knowing this.
Susan,

Sorry to here about your misfortune...glad everything is OK...I too have a Yellow Lab that barks at anything that comes around...we have a privacy fence around our pool in the back where we keep Jessy...anything that comes near that fence gets barked at...it scares ME when she gets to barking and I am with her everyday!

G
__________________
Airstream of Arkansas

www.airstreamofarkansas.com

877-Air-hog1
877-247-4641

Keeping the Airstream Dream Alive!

AIR #8844
Airhog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 11:56 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Alumatube's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,094
Thanks, Steph - I will do some more searching and see if I can find anything on this. I will try knocking on the door and stuff to see what he does. He sits and looks when the UPS man or the meter reader or anyone else comes onto the property, so I don't hold out a lot of hope, but maybe he'll come around.

That's funny about your dog, Gene! Sounds like the kinda dog we need. Maybe she can give Shadow lessons.

That made me think - if a dog has that "alert" behaviour, can it teach another dog just by being around it?

Susan
__________________
"Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?"

1984 310 Limited Motor Home "The Rockin' A"
Alumatube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 12:26 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
janetb's Avatar

 
2007 25' Safari FB SE
Santa Cruz , California
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 928
We have a sensor on our driveway with a little receiver in the house (our dogs are in at night) that buzzes to let us know if anyone--including a coyote or bobcat-- is coming onto the property. The dogs set up a major racket whenever they hear it. They don't really bark much otherwise, but they're terriers, so they can really raise the roof.
I think by acting really alarmed and getting them worked up every time it buzzed when we first got it taught them what to do--similar to what Stefrobrts suggests.
And yes, dogs definitely cue off each other. But yours doesn't even bark at he UPS guy? Hmmm. That's one laid-back pooch.
Good luck!
janetb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 12:50 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Alumatube's Avatar
 
1984 31' Airstream310
Central , Ohio
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,094
That's funny, Janet - I was just thinking about a sensor for the driveway. There is only really one way to get a vehicle on the property, so that may be a good indicator. Not so great if people infiltrate through the woods, but there's not much we can do about that.

He is only laid-back in this ONE regard. He is Hyper-Hound in all other areas. He reminds me a lot of a Border Collie - he even gets that look and gets low and slinky when he sees the mules playing near him. We couldn't even pet him for the first 11 months of his life since he was so hyper. I was glad to get him back from being neutered since he was still a little woozy from the anesthetic and actually stayed still long enough for me to get some good pets in! He seems to be calming a little, but not much yet. I am holding out hope for the 1-1/2 year mark!

Susan
__________________
"Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains?"

1984 310 Limited Motor Home "The Rockin' A"
Alumatube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2008, 12:51 PM   #20
Moderator
 
Stefrobrts's Avatar

 
1968 17' Caravel
Battle Ground , Washington
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,253
Images: 50
Blog Entries: 1
I'd gladly trade your dog, for our new lab who won't shut up!

Another thing I like are motion sensor lights. If someone comes onto your dark property, they have to use a flashlight to see what they're doing, which is suspicious to anyone who might happen to see them. Then if a motion light suddenly comes on, they don't know if that's a motion light or if someone saw them and turned it on.
__________________
Stephanie




Stefrobrts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our soon-to-be new dog! Stefrobrts The Pet Forum 105 02-20-2008 10:41 PM
where do you keep the dog remcolent The Pet Forum 34 10-29-2005 02:40 PM
dog 57overlander The Pet Forum 3 10-01-2005 12:30 PM
Anyone familiar with Toshiba LCD's cosmotini Audio, Video & TV 4 12-18-2004 10:40 AM
Anyone familiar with this? Sneakinup Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 11 11-16-2003 01:30 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.