Which Tow Vehicle for 25FB

[McMullap]

Hey guys/gals,
I’m new to the chat, and have a LOT of questions. My wife and I decided to pick out the AS model we wanted before picking out a tow vehicle. We decided the Flying Cloud 25FB would be best for our family. I know the dry tongue weight is ~850 and I’ve read some people say their loaded weight can be 1,200 or more. I was convinced a 1/2 Ton truck could tow the trailer but I don’t know what I don’t know. I have a family of 4 plus a dog and I’ll admit I’m a big guy at 225 lbs. The weight of family and big dog is roughly 600 pounds. My kids will still grow a little. I don’t know of any half ton trucks with payload capacity that would cover me. Is that true? Should I plan on buying a 3/4 ton truck? Seems excessive for a 7,300 pound trailer but I’d rather be safe. Am I on the right track? Would love the input from others. Thanks, Andy

[Bcc75]

You are on the right track Andy. I tried it with a 1/2 ton and a 25RB which is even lighter on the tongue than an FB. It just did not feel right to me. I have towed many things all my adult life and I was just uncomfortable with this. I felt I was pushing the limits. Traded for an F-250 and never looked back. Most modern 1/2 tons will have plenty of power. The payload, stability, and braking are the issues. Or at least that was my experience.

[XCountry]

I think you’re right on the half ton vs 3/4 ton line there. If you go smaller, you will be wanting a half ton with max tow package, and then may have to manage payload carefully.
If you get a 3/4 ton, a lot less managing and more confidence in adverse conditions.

[brokeboater]

Not all half tons are created equal. An F150 with the right tow package or a Nissan Titan XD would do the trick but there will be a long line of folks to follow who will insist for any number of reason that you must have at least a 3/4 ton or more.

[McMullap]

Brokeboater- I was unaware of the capabilities of the Nissan XD. I looked briefly and the payload numbers are impressive. I’ll have to look at those in more detail. Thank you. I looked at the F-150 and based on the options I want (including a lot/all of the safety features) most folks said their capacity was no more than 1,500. I will continue to do research though as I was trying to avoid a larger truck. My 4 and 6 year old would not be able to climb in and out. I appreciate your advice! Thanks.

[Vantair]

“The more you tow the more you’ll know” as they say.

We and 3 other AS friends with similar 25. 27 and a 23 all started out happily towing with our Ford, GMC and Toyota 1/2 tons not knowing each other.

After enough miles and years of making that work, separately each of us from our own separate experiences individually decided it was time for a 3/4.

Before, the trailers were similar weight as the trucks which physics showed up on occasion, in the feel of safety, up / downhill braking enough times solidified the need each of us to need something MORE.

The 3/4 offers less worry payload, frame, brakes and the engineering stability adds to towing confidence to each of us including our spouses can also feel the difference. .

However, if packing light, and mostly flat road towing no problem but it seems you are are on the edge and with a whole family packed in, give yourself all the safely they you and drivers around you deserve.

Can you hike in tennis shoes? Sure.
After enough miles you may have a different opinion.

[n2916s]

I have a Titan XD. It is a fine truck. Designed to feature the Cummins 5.0 liter diesel (no longer offered) it has excellent cabin soundproofing and a fully boxed frame. All the usual gadgets.
With the 5.6 liter gas engine, you should have about 12000# of towing capacity and at least a ton of payload.

It is a BIG truck, though. Climbing in and out is not much different than a Big 3 3/4 ton.

I have the diesel but, according to the Titan Forums, the gasser is very capable and reliable but thirsty…

5 year/100000 mile nose to tail warranty.

Nissan is pretty desperate for market share so you have some price leverage.

[s1000pre]

After towing an Int. 25FB across the county up & down mountains for over 6,600 miles with an F150. ...Yes, the F150 will do it... and do it well. Since upgrading to a 30’Bunk...kids, I upgraded my hitch to a Hensley which is nothing short of awesome! Though I am pushing my F150 to the limits...it still pulls strong and handles the trailer with confidence. I have owned an F350 in the past. It’s personal preference for me...I live in the city, I don’t want a 3/4 ton. With my Hensley hitch, my f150 tows like a 5th wheel...very stable.

[KCurtis]

I currently use a 1/2 ton 2019 Chevy High Country with a 6.2 V8 and the max tow package. This means heavy duty brakes and a transmission cooler. I have pulled my 2020 25RB Flying Cloud all around the country this past year. It gets an average 10.5 miles per gallon. It has been towing just fine. However, I am now going to upgrade to a 1 ton long bed diesel dully. That is because I am tired of the limited overall payload issues I have experienced over the past year.

When I checked the tongue weight it was only a couple of pounds under 1100 lbs. This was with full propane tanks and our trailer loaded fully for travel. I know front bedroom versions are heavier than our rear bedroom is.

We will also be upgrading to a 30 foot classic soon. If I had it to do over again I would have bought at least a 3/4 ton diesel. This is due to the larger gas tanks. Gas engines come with 24 gallon tanks, while diesels come with 36 and larger. I am currently looking at a Ram that comes with a 50 gallon tank.

I have towed from Denver to Moab on I-70 too. My truck tacked higher obviously going through the mountains, but it did okay. Down hills speed were controlled using the cruse control without any issues. Still, I feel a diesel engine is better suited for towing across the country overall. The larger gas tanks.... engine break and better power going up steep hills puts diesel over a gas engine. After that pay close attention to the payload numbers on the 3/4 ton diesels. Due the the extra weight of the engine the payload number aren't much better than a 1/2 ton than you would believe. This is exactly what pushed me up to a 1 ton dully. The more we travel the heavier our payload is growing.

Hopefully, my experience will be helpful to you making your decision.

[1StreamDream]

Congrats on selecting your trailer, we have a 25’ RB and love it. There are lots of threads on tow vehicle selection, recommend you search prior posts for lots of opinions to help you decide. I am a Ford guy and I started with an F-150 but decided I wanted more stability and more payload margin so I upgraded to an F-250 and am positive I did the right thing for me. Superior handling/stability in a wide range of driving conditions brings a significantly improved driving experience and corresponding reduction in stress/anxiety levels on driving (and packing) days. The F-150 *can* tow it, but payload margin is razor thin, and the trailer will push the truck around. Watch out for axle ratings too, my F-150 rear axle was overloaded when I checked my rig at a CAT scale. Ride is more stiff in F-250, especially when not towing but they are a purpose built vehicle so some comfort compromises will be part of the trade offs. I have a gas engine, diesel is nice but my bank account was one factor that kept me away from that. My opinion is you need a 3/4 ton class vehicle more than you need diesel but I’m just one opinion. Good luck searching for guidance.

[Capt who]

I also have a 25' FC RBT and pull it with a 2020 F250 CCSB diesel 4x4. I went with the XLT package rather than a higher grade so have a little more payload ( 2400 lbs ). I like this truck a lot. With the 3.31 rear and 10 sp trans I am getting 22-25 mpg not towing and 15 mpg towing. So far I have not used any WDH or sway control and haven't noticed any sway. Another thing with the diesel is being able to fuel up at the truck lane which is much easier to get in and out of when towing. Whatever you buy get a bigger fuel tank so you don't have to stop 150-200 mi. Some gas trucks call for high test which cost more than diesel.

[GettinAway]

I pull our 25FB with a modified Tundra. It does very well. I’ve been across many many passes in CO, WY, and MT. No issues. High winds, no issues.
However, if I was buying a truck I might look at a 3/4 ton. I believe the bigger trucks make pulling easier. I’d make sure you can fit it in your garage if you go 3/4 ton, or 1 ton diesel. I just don’t like leaving vehicles outside all the time. We live in the woods though, and everything left out gets covered with debris.
If you’re going to be doing a lot of long trips, and stay out for longer periods of time, I’d also look at a diesel.

[Dennis C]

I think that you’re on the right track by considering a 3/4-ton truck. Most people who ask the question are trying to make a big, heavy trailer work with a 1/2-ton truck that they already own. You’ve got the luxury of picking the right truck for the job. Take emotion out of it, consider all the key the numbers objectively, and you come to the right conclusion. That conclusion may be 1/2 ton and it may be 3/4 ton, but it will be based on logic and not emotion.

[TexasVine]

I pulled our 22' Sport with a F150 in the past. It work well. We just upgraded to a 27' International FBT. I went ahead and upgraded our truck to a 21 F250 with the 7.3L gas engine. Just did our first pull on Friday. High winds and extremely hard rain (7" an hour) going through Austin. The truck handled very well and gave me the confidence I would have not had with the F150. If you have the choice, I suggest you go with the F250. I am on the side of "more is better". The F150 can work and a lot of folks have that combination. One of the things I noticed on the forum is a lot of folks will eventual upgrade form a 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton after pulling a 25' plus trailer over a period of time. Mountain passes, high wind, heavy loads, future upgrade in trailers and overall handling are good reasons to go wit a 3/4.

[Caffeinated]

I’ve towed our 2015 27 FC FB exclusively with a half ton pickup. Countless trips from the PNW to S Calif, a couple of trips cross country, (Yellowstone and Jackson Hole, and Kentucky). Towed in windstorms, freeways, smaller state highways, small towns and San Francisco and Los Angeles at rush hours. (For the record, San Francisco was not a fun towing experience) The Two tow vehicles were a 09 Chevy crew cab with a 5.2 engine and currently a 19 F150 echoboost. The chevies engine was a. Bit slow climbing steep hills but the Ford tows great. Both trucks were stable enough going down hill, I actively manage engine braking, and try to use the brakes only as needed to keep everything manageable. I have full confidence in the Ford to do it’s job. Blue ox hitch keeps things stable. In the worst conditions, ie storm wind gusting to 50-60 mph, I’ll slow down to maybe 50 on the freeway. All that said if I won the lottery tomorrow I’d pop for a 3/4 ton diesel, but since the odds of that are highly unlikely I’m good with what I’ve got. By the way the sticker on my door says I’ve got 1620 payload. Lariat trim level, max tow.

[mtbmitch]

Chevy express van has up to 4280 pounds of payload and 15,000 gross combined. Lots of room

[uncle_bob]

Hi

One of the wonders of modern marketing is that most companies will put a 150 / 1000 badge on a 250 / 2500 simply to claim "best in class" this or that. Look at the price of that magic truck and compare it to a "real" 250 / 2500 .... hmmm .... you might save money buying the bigger truck.....

Even with the magic badge upgrade, the smaller truck usually has a few things missing. It may have smaller brakes. It likely does not have as capable set of towing options available. Just what's what will take a lot of deep dive research.

The days of a 250 / 2500 riding a lot worse than a 150 / 1500 are long gone. The suspensions and interiors are now all in the "luxury" category.

Like it or not, you *will* have a bunch of stuff in the back of the truck. There simply is not enough trailer storage / trailer payload to put everything back there. (... you will have water in the trailer tanks ...). You also have a couple hundred pounds of WD / AS hitch / shank to toss into the math. A bed cover of some sort is a really good idea, there's another hundred to couple hundred pounds.

Last up, you want to have some "wiggle room" here. Starting out with either the trailer or the truck anywhere near max is a bad idea. Heading over to the CAT scale at the start of every trip gets old fast. The drive home to re-pack gets old *very* fast. Aim for at least a 20% margin ....

Looking in my crystal ball .... two kids, 25' AS .... I see a bunkhouse tent in your future ... (you will *always* find stuff to add to the load ....)

Bob

[djbar]

Been there; done that. Start w/ 3/4 ton and don’t look back.

[David Perri]

Originally Posted by McMullap

Hey guys/gals,
I’m new to the chat, and have a LOT of questions. My wife and I decided to pick out the AS model we wanted before picking out a tow vehicle. We decided the Flying Cloud 25FB would be best for our family. I know the dry tongue weight is ~850 and I’ve read some people say their loaded weight can be 1,200 or more. I was convinced a 1/2 Ton truck could tow the trailer but I don’t know what I don’t know. I have a family of 4 plus a dog and I’ll admit I’m a big guy at 225 lbs. The weight of family and big dog is roughly 600 pounds. My kids will still grow a little. I don’t know of any half ton trucks with payload capacity that would cover me. Is that true? Should I plan on buying a 3/4 ton truck? Seems excessive for a 7,300 pound trailer but I’d rather be safe. Am I on the right track? Would love the input from others. Thanks, Andy

Hi McMullap,
I have the same AS and have towed it with my previous 1/2 ton up and down mountains, I wasn't confident it would make it through. Since then I'm in a GMC HD 3/4 ton and I can only say I should have done it years ago. If you want 100% confidence towing and stopping in control go with a diesel 3/4 or better.
Good luck to you and enjoy the life!

[switz]

Towed the new 2013 25FB International Serenity (full water and propane tanks, Hensley Arrow hitch installed along with Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller added street side and rear awnings and a 160 watt solar panel on the roof generated a 1,150 pound tongue weight) home with my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel with a CanAm modified hitch receiver.

The towing speed limit of 55 mph in California was to my advantage and had no towing issues other than a tire drama with a flat rear tire ten miles out from the dealership from a nail in the road. Car dropped back to 4th gear and 3,500 rpm to climb the mountain at 55 mph outside of Palm Springs east bound. After loading the car and trailer with our stuff, it was much less happy with 6,900 pounds of trailer. The numbers all worked for the two of us.

We acquired a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins and the tow issue was resolved for both the 25 FB and the successor 2014 31' Classic with a ProPride PPP hitch.

The Mercedes was pressed back into service to tow our 2015 23D International Serenity using the Hensley Arrow and Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller from the 25FB. This was a perfect fit for the 23D that scales 6,069 pounds camping ready.

The Mercedes was retired at 207,000 miles for the third occurrence (roughly every 75,000 miles) of baked gaskets leaking at the back of the valley between the V6 cylinders ($3,500 repair) and my wife's 2009 E320 CDI was showing signs of the same at issue 70,000 miles. Both Mercedes were traded in on Toyota vehicles.

The 23D is going back to A&P Vintage Trailer Works for new 3,600 pound rated axles that support 12" disc brakes and will provide a 3" lift to the coach. The Hensley Arrow will be replaced with the new jack stands model ProPride PPP hitch. The 300 amp hour lithium battery installed in 2015 will be replaced with a 315 amp hour lithium battery along with a new charger/converter and solar charge controller. The original axles had five lug wheels but the new axles are six lug wheels so the wheels will be upgraded and still using the 15" Michelin model tires as before and I had on the 25FB. Will be installing the MicroAir easy start for the air conditioner along with their thermostat.

The big story for us is the acquisition of a 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser to tow the 23D. We will be installing Firestone air bags inside the rear coil springs for added stability and leveling the car. We have an Australian 12.5 gallon auxiliary gasoline tank that fits in the space above the spare tire being installed next month. This is the last Land Cruiser model for the USA market and a major improvement of the 2021 model year was an eight speed transmission versus the prior six speed version. We see over 20mpg at highway speeds. Like with the Mercedes, we plan on one Honda 2000 watt generator, a small Weber 120 grill with stand, two lawn chairs and hitching tools to be in the rear of the Land Cruiser.

One must really do due diligence with the numbers crunching to select the proper tow vehicle. The more important consideration than can the proposed vehicle "tow" the trailer is, can the proposed tow vehicle stop the combination while going down mountain and the trailer brakes fail.

Studying the weight numbers is great but also the size of the disc brakes could be more important....