What's your preference? Over capacity TV or under capacity?

[Glenn T]

I chose the FC 20 because it had a GVWR of 5,000 lbs., and my tow vehicle was rated for 6,400 lbs. I thought I had plenty of reserve towing capacity, but a few white-knuckled experiences behind the wheel, including standing on the brake pedal on a downgrade while going through a red light, convinced me to upgrade the TV.

I now pull the same trailer with a 2017 Nissan Titan XD diesel rated at 12,000 lbs. Some would call that overkill. I don't care.

It always amazes me how people here will pay top dollar for an Airstream trailer, then go cheap on the tow vehicle...

Glenn

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Glenn T

It always amazes me how people here will pay top dollar for an Airstream trailer, then go cheap on the tow vehicle...

Glenn

I never considered European SUVs the cheaper option. The cheapest would be to buy a used North American pickup. Just too many compromises there for me.

It does surprise me that some people pay for the handling and design features of an Airstream (suspension design, etc) and then tow it with something with one or more solid axles, narrow suspension mounts, high roll centre, and high centre of gravity. If one is going to purchase a pickup for towing, the natural choice is a fifth wheel IMO.

[mykytiukr]

Originally Posted by B00merang

I much prefer under-capacity. It makes life so much more exciting, and it keeps you awake when putting in 1,000 mile/day drives. It also keeps others from following too close behind, or encroaching into your lane based on the rig's instability and unpredictability. There is nothing like the rush you get going downhills.....as you remember. (except you were not laughing at the time)

I kinda like the way this guy thinks! Over the course of my working life there has been numerous times when the truck and/or trailer has been what some people would consider “dangerously” overloaded! As long as you are aware and take the necessary precautions you should be fine. Now that I am old and like to go on relaxing vacations, I like the idea of more TV than is needed. Especially when I am a passenger in said vehicle on occasion!!! Motor On!!!

[uraljohn]

Put me in the 10% to 15% margin group. I have over 1.5 million miles of driving experience in Class 8 (18 wheeler semi-tractor trailer) equipment. Hauling around 80.000LBS with a properly equipped truck is easy work. I am amazed that someone would spend good money on a RV (any brand) and then put themselves, there family, and other people on the road in danger towing with an overloaded truck/van/car. Yes, new trucks and other properly rated tow vehicles are expensive. Pay to play. One real good white knuckle, teeth gritting experience (hopefully without injury) might make someone towing over capacity to wise up and get a proper tow vehicle.

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by jcl

I never considered European SUVs the cheaper option. The cheapest would be to buy a used North American pickup. Just too many compromises there for me.

It does surprise me that some people pay for the handling and design features of an Airstream (suspension design, etc) and then tow it with something with one or more solid axles, narrow suspension mounts, high roll centre, and high centre of gravity. If one is going to purchase a pickup for towing, the natural choice is a fifth wheel IMO.

Yes, but the advertisement for those Euro SUVs don't feature a voice-over done by an actor pretending to be some grizzled old hardworking salt of the earth blue collar "I drove a pickup all my life" guy with a gravelly "I wasn't born with no silver spoon" voice, making all sorts of Wilfred Brimley "right thing to do and the right way to do it" claims about how tough, rugged and strong their vehicle is. So, better handling and towing? Maybe. Confidence inspiring? Not so much.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

I never considered European SUVs the cheaper option. The cheapest would be to buy a used North American pickup. Just too many compromises there for me.

It does surprise me that some people pay for the handling and design features of an Airstream (suspension design, etc) and then tow it with something with one or more solid axles, narrow suspension mounts, high roll centre, and high centre of gravity. If one is going to purchase a pickup for towing, the natural choice is a fifth wheel IMO.

I think fifth wheels are hideous. I’d rather stay home than tow one of those eyesores. The names they put on them are hilarious. “Avenger”, “predator”, etc.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

Yes, but the advertisement for those Euro SUVs don't feature a voice-over done by an actor pretending to be some grizzled old hardworking salt of the earth blue collar "I drove a pickup all my life" guy with a gravelly "I wasn't born with no silver spoon" voice, making all sorts of Wilfred Brimley "right thing to do and the right way to do it" claims about how tough, rugged and strong their vehicle is. So, better handling and towing? Maybe. Confidence inspiring? Not so much.

I knew this thread wouldn’t disappoint. Can’t wait to see what it looks like in a few days.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I think fifth wheels are hideous. I’d rather stay home than tow one of those eyesores. The names they put on them are hilarious. “Avenger”, “predator”, etc.

I would never own one either. However, they were designed to be towed by pickups, and pickups were designed to tow them. Perfectly matched, they are literally made for each other.

They even use the same marketing. Raptor? Rebel?

[smithcreek]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I think fifth wheels are hideous. I’d rather stay home than tow one of those eyesores. The names they put on them are hilarious. “Avenger”, “predator”, etc.

My wife and I were on a trip recently and passed an "Avenger" on the road. I asked her "what do you think that guy is avenging?" Avenging is a pretty specific act, usually retribution against one of more people for some prior wrong they committed against you or your family. You're not going to go out avenging because someone said they hate Jimmy Buffett and your a parrothead. No, 90% or more of avenging is done when someone near and dear to you like your father, brother, child, etc. is murdered. So, was the guy driving that rig actually out avenging when we passed him? You would have to have a lot of avenging to do to sink that much money into a trailer just for that purpose.

Honestly, other than the stupid name, the trailer didn't look all that "averngerish", just lots of swoops and swirls painted on the side like the rest of them. I think something a little more "Mad Max" with sharp pointy objects sticking out in every direction would really get the point across that were out for blood, out to reclaim your families name and honor, basically not fooling around and going fishing. Would a trailer built specifically for avenging work well for regular camping trips? I guess even someone out avenging their mothers death needs to use the bathroom, or if carrying out the avenging process takes takes more than couple days a shower would be nice.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

Yes, but the advertisement for those Euro SUVs don't feature a voice-over done by an actor pretending to be some grizzled old hardworking salt of the earth blue collar "I drove a pickup all my life" guy with a gravelly "I wasn't born with no silver spoon" voice, making all sorts of Wilfred Brimley "right thing to do and the right way to do it" claims about how tough, rugged and strong their vehicle is. So, better handling and towing? Maybe. Confidence inspiring? Not so much.

You watch the commercials?

[rodsterinfl]

Everyone has their opinion; however, the idea of capacity is the key. I have watched the "tackling the gauntlet" videos on the truck reviews and if you are towing the Excel 25', a half-ton with proper capacity ratings as shared by others would be fine. I will tell you that I have now towed my 25' with three different F150s and there is a huge difference in how they tow the same trailer. The 2009 V8 was the High Output 4.6L. with 6 speed. It was just shy in torque of their biggest 5.4 liter for the model year and very similar to recent Chevy 5.3 liter engines in HP and torque. It pulled fine but on inclines the roaring and shifting were undesirable necessities as the RPM had to rev to get the power. When I got the 2015 3.5L Eco 6-speed, things got better and then the 2017 3.5 with 10 speed is even better- almost pure power without shifting and roaring. Consider the engine peak torque and at what RPM to compare engines along with payload/towing capacity and the rest.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

I would never own one either. However, they were designed to be towed by pickups, and pickups were designed to tow them. Perfectly matched, they are literally made for each other.

They even use the same marketing. Raptor? Rebel?

Actually, guys have liked pickups ever since the first one was built. Even if I didn’t tow, I would own one. There are quite a few in my suburban neighborhood, but they are all half tons. I have the only diesel.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

My wife and I were on a trip recently and passed an "Avenger" on the road. I asked her "what do you think that guy is avenging?" Avenging is a pretty specific act, usually retribution against one of more people for some prior wrong they committed against you or your family. You're not going to go out avenging because someone said they hate Jimmy Buffett and your a parrothead. No, 90% or more of avenging is done when someone near and dear to you like your father, brother, child, etc. is murdered. So, was the guy driving that rig actually out avenging when we passed him? You would have to have a lot of avenging to do to sink that much money into a trailer just for that purpose.

Honestly, other than the stupid name, the trailer didn't look all that "averngerish", just lots of swoops and swirls painted on the side like the rest of them. I think something a little more "Mad Max" with sharp pointy objects sticking out in every direction would really get the point across that were out for blood, out to reclaim your families name and honor, basically not fooling around and going fishing. Would a trailer built specifically for avenging work well for regular camping trips? I guess even someone out avenging their mothers death needs to use the bathroom, or if carrying out the avenging process takes takes more than couple days a shower would be nice.

My theory is, the husband wants a cool pickup and the wife wants to take the family camping. She picks the “avenger” and he says “we gotta have a big pickup to pull that”. They both get what they want. Now the neighboring campers get to look at the monstrosity, complete with blue LED lights, all weekend.

Thank God I have a wife who likes Harleys, pickups, and airstreams, and she’s hot too. I have the best of all worlds.

[rmkrum]

Heh, my wife is the one that selected and paid for our first Tow Vehicle. 2008 Toyota Tacoma crewmax long bed.

[guskmg]

I would never tow w/o a weight distribution hitch and some form of sway control. The safest solution is the trapezoid/projection hitch. The worst case scenario would be violent sway caused by a sudden wind gust on slick pavement or maybe a sudden lane change maneuver without the above type hitch. Even friction sway controls are useless in rain, because they must be un-tensioned, otherwise the tail wags the dog. Fifth wheels are another matter, but the do jackknife is certain conditions. Bumper pull only is an invitation to disaster.
guskmg

[jsutro]

Did any of you ever experience classic fishtailing downhill, with three daughters in the TV, and the trailer flinging bicycles off the rack on the back? Fortunately, I managed to rub off too much speed by sliding along a guardrail.

Once was WAY too many. Now my concept of a TV is a belt AND suspenders.

There was a very cogent reply a while back - if you're over capacity and get into trouble, you may be criminally liable.

Thanks to many generous responses on this Forum, I learned that it's most important to set up your vehicle to come DOWN the hill under full control. After that, going uphill will take care of itself.

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by guskmg

I would never tow w/o a weight distribution hitch and some form of sway control. ... Even friction sway controls are useless in rain, because they must be un-tensioned, otherwise the tail wags the dog.

I use an Eaz-Lift hitch with two sway bars. You are correct that in extremely slippery road conditions (heavy rain, ice, snow, etc.) the sway bars should be loosened to prevent a severe understeer condition in curves where the anti sway bars connecting your trailer would want to keep your rig aligned straight.

This doesn't make the hitch useless if one uses some common sense. This should apply when using any hitch if caught out in poor road conditions or areas of strong wind gusts - SLOW DOWN. Slowing down is the most important action you can take, whether towing or not. Studies have shown that travelling at speeds less than 55 mph you are much less likely to encounter a sway incident with a properly loaded trailer. Hopefully if the weather is bad you are travelling well below this speed and the sway control mechanism can be safely backed off.

The Eaz-Lift (or similar hitch) requires a bit more time when hitching up (two minutes), but you maintain control over the sway control function whereas, IMO, with ''Equalizer or 'Blue Ox' type hitches if you reduce the sway control function you also loose your weight distribution which will be even worse as you will also reduce the weight on your steering action, again leading to severe understeer in a curve.

If someone ends up in a 'tail wagging the dog' situation it is totally driver error caused by going too fast for the conditions. Having a heavy tow vehicle will just lead to a false sense of security when road/weather conditions are bad, much like as been mentioned in the 2 wheel drive vs 4 wheel thread. Having a lighter TV versus TT weight will provide a driver with more feedback and clue them in to the need to lower their speed when needed. (Another reason a SUV can make a better tow vehicle over a 3/4 ton truck.)

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by jcl

I never considered European SUVs the cheaper option. The cheapest would be to buy a used North American pickup. Just too many compromises there for me.

......

Hi

If you go onto the web, all of the outfits that make pickups have sites that let you "build and price" one your way. Go in and *only* put in the minimum number of things you need to tow. Put in the tow package that gets you the mirrors and the brake controller. Upgrade the springs so you can carry a good load. Stop at that point.

Now click the "price it out" button. Hmmmm .... that's a mighty low price. If it's not, go back and see if an option button pulled in a bunch more stuff (moon roof, auto-massage seats ....) than just the tow or payload.

Now bump it up from a 150 /1500 to a 250/2500 and then to a 350/3500. On most of the sites, it still is a .... hmmm .... not very expensive sort of thing.

Last time I did this, I was under $35K delivered price on a pretty wide range of trucks. When you pay $80K for a brand new truck, it's not just for the towing stuff ....

Bob

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you go onto the web, all of the outfits that make pickups have sites that let you "build and price" one your way. Go in and *only* put in the minimum number of things you need to tow. Put in the tow package that gets you the mirrors and the brake controller. Upgrade the springs so you can carry a good load. Stop at that point.

Now click the "price it out" button. Hmmmm .... that's a mighty low price. If it's not, go back and see if an option button pulled in a bunch more stuff (moon roof, auto-massage seats ....) than just the tow or payload.

Now bump it up from a 150 /1500 to a 250/2500 and then to a 350/3500. On most of the sites, it still is a .... hmmm .... not very expensive sort of thing.

Last time I did this, I was under $35K delivered price on a pretty wide range of trucks. When you pay $80K for a brand new truck, it's not just for the towing stuff ....

Bob

Yeah but the $35,000 truck has cloth seats and minimum sound system etc. Upgrade to the diesel with better trans and your $35,000 build just went to $48,000. And that’s a standard cab.

[ITSNO60]

Originally Posted by Glenn T

I chose the FC 20 because it had a GVWR of 5,000 lbs., and my tow vehicle was rated for 6,400 lbs. I thought I had plenty of reserve towing capacity, but a few white-knuckled experiences behind the wheel, including standing on the brake pedal on a downgrade while going through a red light, convinced me to upgrade the TV.

Glenn

I am hear you on the bigger tow vehicle but I'd like to know more about this incident, were the trailer brakes malfunctioning? I thought the trailer brakes were supposed to be able to stop the trailer with no help from the TV.