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Old 02-02-2012, 09:57 PM   #61
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Nice video. Thanks for posting it.

When we drove back home in June (Flagstaff to ABQ), we had the crazy winds, mainly cross, some tail. We knew the wind was blowing by the trees, etc, but didn't feel it in the truck. Like the guy said in the video, we discovered just how windy it was when we stopped for gas. HOLY COW!

With the 21' Sovereign (~4800#), and F250 (~6200+) I'm sure the heavier TV helps to anchor the entire rig.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:58 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Don't get too relaxed with the F250. The only Airstreamer I have known personally that lost truck and trailer together in a rollover from gusting winds here in Arizona three years ago was driving an F250 diesel.
doug k
If it is the same one that I read about and you look back you will find that the cross wind was over 60 mph and he over corrected which caused the rollover. And there was nothing he could have done to stop it according to the State police reports as it pushed the entire vehicle not just the trailer.
In most cases of roll overs they are a result of either an underweight TV or lack of driver experience that causes it.
Just because something can pull something does not mean it is safe!!
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:07 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Spec the trailer first and spec the tow vehicle with the trailer in mind. And any future trailers as it is not at all uncommon to change trailers a few times over a few years. Most often a bit larger.
>>Oh you are so correct and dead on with the above comment..<<

But it makes no sense to spec a TV [tow vehicle] that is unsuitable for duty the rest of the year. A/S designed their trailers to be easily towed, by cars, not trucks. One may not wish to tow a 31' or 34' with a minivan or sedan with larger brakes, better suspension, etc, over those cars of yesteryear.

>>May I add to this conmment that most people when they refer to cars of yesteryear towing campers they dont take into account that cars of that era where made of steal and weighed as much as 1/2 ton trucks and some 3/4 ton trucks do now and had full frames bumper to bumper. This goes to the counter weight issue.<<<

but the size of the TV has little to do with TV ability.

>>Correct ability but does have to do with stability and towing counter weight.<<
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by starcraft View Post
How does wind push them over? I have smallest AS you can get. Now a 30 footer I would understand, there is video of Mercedes diesel 3.0 pulling 31 footer on Youtube looks funny.
Great video, you pointed out the one thing that most does not take into account and that is aerodynamics. The AS will not catch the wind like a flat sided trailer will even with proper hitching, But this also applies to the tow vehicle as well, you was in a 30 mph constant wind, it changes dramastically when it is sudden gusts and if the wind happens to be stronger than 30, more like 50 and above. The heavier tow vehicle will always handle better than a lighter one because of the weight.
I know because I drove truck for 21 plus years with over 1.5 million miles and have drove and towed everything from 1 ton hotshots to oversize loads and except for moble homes.
Weight and areo dynamics play a major role in safety.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:54 AM   #65
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A 1/2 ton truck, properly equipped will pull anything Airstream has ever made.

The key is "properly".

A good size transmission oil cooler is a must.

8 ply tires for the TV.

Spare fuel tank never hurts.

A good rear end ratio can help depending on the kind of traveling a person wants to do.

A proper rated, properly installed and properly adjusted load equalizing hitch, with sway control.

The only thing excessive rated hitches do is transfer more road shock to the trailer, which in time, causes damage to the trailer.

Jazzing a 1/2 truck up with a nice shell to cover the bed also works wonders in keeping those "extra" things safe and secure.

But then, a person must also consider what percentage of miles will be towing.

The higher the towing mileage percentage, the more attention needs to paid to "how" the tow vehicle is equipped.

Some owners tow a very small number of miles, yet spend a fortune and a half on a TV that will never pay for itself.

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Old 02-05-2012, 12:58 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Some owners tow a very small number of miles, yet spend a fortune and a half on a TV that will never pay for itself.

Andy
That begs the rhetorical question ... which TVs will pay for themselves? LOL ... $$$ lost as soon as you drive the TV - new or used - off the lot... unless it is some kind of collectible or low production model ... just another $.02 ...
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #67
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A/S designed their trailers to be easily towed, by cars, not trucks. size of the TV has little to do with TV ability.
So much truth here. Generally speaking the pickup/large SUV's work but have many short comings. Not so good aerodynamics that interact negatively with the bullet shape of the Airstream. High centre of gravity. Low tech suspension. It seems folks take the heavy weight of the pickups as the saving grace but many will debate whether heavy vehicles towing an Airstream is a blessing or a handicap. Varied opinions for sure on this subject.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #68
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"Weight" is not an advantage to either TT or TV. It's only relative to shape and suspension as they count for more, as does ground clearance and center-of-gravity. One can consult charts about weight and wind speed for blow-over, but they themselves do not account for these other factors. Vehicle stability is a product of a number of factors.

I was always happy to have been driving a flatbed versus a box van crossing the Great Plains, especially in those stretches of Wyoming where blowovers were common. I could weigh less or more, but the comparative dimunition of sail area and lack of squared edges that didn't trap the wind that it piled up against the trailer increasing the pressure was always a relief.

In re what size truck or SUV one can have one's choice. But some choices are better than others, which, as Andy notes, have to do with the miles accummulated in solo driving as well.

.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:18 PM   #69
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I'm using a 2006 f150 to pull a 29' TT. It's well within the tow rage of the truck, but it feels like the truck has no power when towing. Still a newbie towing, so this might be normal....
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #70
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I'm using a 2006 f150 to pull a 29' TT. It's well within the tow rage of the truck, but it feels like the truck has no power when towing. Still a newbie towing, so this might be normal....
Keith, you are at the upper end of the towing limits on that particular year depending on the engine you have in it. If it is the 3.8, then it will feel like that, some 4.0's will also feel the same. One thing you can do is to open up the exaust with a thrush muffler, or glass pak, the other is to switch the air induction from filter to ram air so it can breath, such as with and what most everyone uses is K&N. This will gain you a little more power.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:16 PM   #71
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As they say...a picture is worth 1000 words...so here's our Ford Edge, Hensley hitch & C34.

Now for those that may say..."ya can't pull that, with that"...in Dec we traveled with our C34 from Windsor Ontario, to Bradenton Florida, where we stayed for the entire month.

This was the first "long-distance" vacation we've taken with the (new to us..) Classic 34, but it was not a problem & rolled along the road very similar to our Safari 25.

Of course, given all the "ya need a huge truck" conversations...I was a bit concerned with how it would tackle the mountains of Kentucky & Tennessee...but I'm glad to report the whole trip...there & back was about as perfect as we could have ever hoped for.
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Old 02-21-2012, 03:46 PM   #72
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Thanks for the picture Paul. Nice to see counterpoints to the "you need a bigger truck" theory.

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Old 02-21-2012, 09:02 PM   #73
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WOW!! Tow a 34' with an Edge? Never thought I would see that combo....happy it works for you. Kinda flies in the face of physics, experience, load numbers. But if it works, so be it.

I am so afraid of an accident, that we use much more truck than we need.

Are the "numbers" within legal limits, e.g. TV capacity, braking, etc....?
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:22 PM   #74
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WOW!! Tow a 34' with an Edge? Never thought I would see that combo....happy it works for you. Kinda flies in the face of physics, experience, load numbers. But if it works, so be it.

I am so afraid of an accident, that we use much more truck than we need.

Are the "numbers" within legal limits, e.g. TV capacity, braking, etc....?
Your assumptions are off with every assertion you've made. Without an exception.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:41 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Ouellette View Post
As they say...a picture is worth 1000 words...so here's our Ford Edge, Hensley hitch & C34.

Now for those that may say..."ya can't pull that, with that"...in Dec we traveled with our C34 from Windsor Ontario, to Bradenton Florida, where we stayed for the entire month.

This was the first "long-distance" vacation we've taken with the (new to us..) Classic 34, but it was not a problem & rolled along the road very similar to our Safari 25.

Of course, given all the "ya need a huge truck" conversations...I was a bit concerned with how it would tackle the mountains of Kentucky & Tennessee...but I'm glad to report the whole trip...there & back was about as perfect as we could have ever hoped for.

Here's another one...



Sienna 3.5l V6 towing a 28' International Serenity - 1000lb Eaz-Lift bars rather than a Hensley. We (2 Adults, 2 big kids) went from Chatham, Ontario, down to Orlando in Florida in the summer, then came back via New Orleans and Birmingham AL. The hills in KY and TN slowed us a little but were of no consequence.

Rather than flying in the face of physics, this setup makes the most of the science. The TV is quite low slung, has a wide track and long wheelbase as well as a reasonably small overhang as a percentage of the wheelbase. Our beefed up hitch allows good weight transference to the front axle and the Prodigy brake controller brings in the trailer brakes to their full effect. The only disadvantage I can see that this setup has compared to a big truck is that we have less HP and less torque. That means that we're slower on the uphill and tend to take it gently on the downs. We averaged around 12mpg towing but where we really win is when not towing with around 28mpg.

Certainly this setup ignores Toyota's tow rating but, as those figures have not been derived by any scientific means and take no account of the vehicle's modifications, they can be ignored with impunity. The fact is that the combination works well and is both safe and legal.

Of course, if you prefer to tow with a big truck then that's your choice and I'm certain will work for you. There are, though, alternatives!
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:06 AM   #76
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Paul, that's great! Did you get any funny looks going down the road?
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:39 AM   #77
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Here's our "You can't do that with that" rig:

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Old 02-22-2012, 08:36 AM   #78
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Ooh, is it show and tell? Here's mine!



And here's some shots of one of Andy Thomson's towing talks, which include some of the slides that explain how they come up with figures for what vehicles can tow. The one thing he emphasizes over and over again is that it's not just about weight.

(BTW, the Jetta is a very safe TV. A bit more power would have been nice, and I nearly bought a 2.0L Jetta TDI to get it, but in the end decided being able to buy the exact AS I wanted was better than buying down from that in order to be able to afford a newer tow vehicle as well. I won't be winning any races, though. I try to stay at 60-65 mph anyway for the trailer tires. The dream TV is a Touareg TDI...)
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:37 AM   #79
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Geezers' Rig

Here's a pic of our setup. Had it for a year now and traveled up and down the CA coast and in the Sierras. Our Suburban 1500 with towing package handles the weight of our 27' very well. The combination of steep grades and altitude over, say 4000', means we climb grades slowly--35 to 45 mph; but we're not in a hurry and we keep engine max RPM between 3000 and 3500.

Our 27' FC is well within GM's tow rating for our Sub. Added vented disk rotors to the front to help avoid brake fade on long down hills. Never been a problem so far; we tend to use the brakes rather than transmission for maintaining safe downhill speeds.

With just over 20 trips--mostly long weekends--so far, we're averaging just over 10 mpg in tow/haul mode with 120k+ miles on the odometer.

While a big, honking truck would mean we could glide over the passes and carry more doodads with us, we'll stick with the Sub for now because of its quiet, comfortable ride ... and it's paid for ....
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:04 AM   #80
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I LOVE my Euro SUV (not pictured) for towing an AS<25', boat, etc.

I tolerate our trucks 1/2 ton hemi & full size diesel for hauling the above loads with a little less comfort & handling.

I can't however imagine towing/stopping/swerving in any combination of AS >Bambi with a lesser/smaller vehicle (& I'm not talking purely macho HP...tire surface area, breaking power, AWD/4x4, computerized traction, etc.) I say this as someone who has used the jaws of life & extricated families from awful crashes (with&without trailers). Sure there is also such thing as overkill & one using an E550 or Unimog may still find themselves in a pickle...but it's up to you (not your AS/TV dealer who's chasing $) to brace for the worst case scenarios for you & others sharing the road with you.

I am glad the above members & combos have traveled safely, but I'm loathe to think what would happen if those set-ups were the majority & traversing the country highways, diverse terrains & hazards!
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