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Old 10-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #1
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What did I leave out?

We just sold our tiny canned ham.
We’re pretty sure a fc 25 will be our last trailer.

Our TV is a Toyota Tundra 5.7 4wd with 20” tires and tow package.
According to the owner’s manual max trailer weight is 9800 lbs.
That would make 80% 7840lbs.
Which I think is in excess of the max trailer weight with cargo by about 500lbs.

Can I relax about hauling a fc 25 with my TV or have I left something out?
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
We just sold our tiny canned ham.
We’re pretty sure a fc 25 will be our last trailer.

Our TV is a Toyota Tundra 5.7 4wd with 20” tires and tow package.
According to the owner’s manual max trailer weight is 9800 lbs.
That would make 80% 7840lbs.
Which I think is in excess of the max trailer weight with cargo by about 500lbs.

Can I relax about hauling a fc 25 with my TV or have I left something out?
You cannot relax. You need to figure payload and tongue weight. Do some searches here on real world 25 tongue weights. I went with a 25RB because the tongue weights of a FB appear to be beyond the capacity of our tow vehicle.
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Old 10-20-2020, 01:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCPAS View Post
You cannot relax. You need to figure payload and tongue weight. Do some searches here on real world 25 tongue weights. I went with a 25RB because the tongue weights of a FB appear to be beyond the capacity of our tow vehicle.
My 25' globetrotter FBT has a tongue weight of 940#. I think the FCs weigh less, but you need to look at payload and tongue weight as dcpas says.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:06 PM   #4
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Reguardless of the factory variations, nearly all modern (80's and up) Airstream trailers have an ideal tongue weight of 15% when towing with a capable tow vehicle that is below both tongue and total weight limits. Below 15% increases risk of sway instability while, over 15% increases risk of oversteer and jackknife instability for a well fitted tow vehicle. If you find yourself compromising ideal 15% tongue weight to accommodate your tow vehicle, it is a strong indication the vehicle is less than ideal for the task.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCPAS View Post
You cannot relax. You need to figure payload and tongue weight. Do some searches here on real world 25 tongue weights. I went with a 25RB because the tongue weights of a FB appear to be beyond the capacity of our tow vehicle.
Dry tongue weight is 835lbs.(according to a dealer)
Truck weight capacity is 1410lbs.
Does that leaves me 575lbs. for people and gear?

BTW
Ft. Axle is 4000lbs
Rr. Axle is 4150lbs.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:37 PM   #6
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I believe you are correct with that math. Don't forget that the WDH is pretty heavy too, so that takes away even more of your cargo capacity. As mentioned above, your real world tongue weight when camping will be more than 835 lbs. I recently saw a Toyota Tundra similar to yours pulling a 27-footer, and the truck was clearly over-matched. The squat in the truck's rear suspension was so bad that it looked as if the front wheels were going to lift off of the ground!
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #7
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My FC RBT 25' weighs about 6700 loaded for camping with a tongue weight of 720.
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Dry tongue weight is 835lbs.(according to a dealer)
Truck weight capacity is 1410lbs.
Does that leaves me 575lbs. for people and gear?

BTW
Ft. Axle is 4000lbs
Rr. Axle is 4150lbs.
It's the right thinking, but a lot of people here say that the tongue weight in use is well above the quoted weight. That reduces your payload for people and stuff. That said, after that it gets confusing. For example, does weight distribution allow you to not treat all that tongue weight as load on the vehicle because some of it is transferred back to the trailer tires? If you are over your payload numbers, but you weigh at a Cat scale and you are within your axle ratings, is that okay? If you exceed numbers, are you creating a liability or insurance coverage issue if you have an accident?

I have opinions on these points but no answers. For me, I got the trailer and then did the three weigh method at a Cat scale. After hitch adjustment, I could see that I was within my truck's specs, at least according to that method.
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:39 PM   #9
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All I have to offer is my experience. I towed a 2015 flying cloud 25' rear twin with a 2015 F150 crew cab 4x4. It did the job.

I then towed the same trailer with a 2017 F250 crew cab 4x4.

For this old boy, there is no comparison in the towing experience. F250 wins hands down.

Indeed, it has been beaten to death, and indeed, I concur, there are ways to setup all sorts of vehicles to tow an airstream, and tow safely, providing one stays within the specs of the tow vehicle. However, every time I'm out and about, I observe what other people are actually towing with.
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:10 PM   #10
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Using Brian’s (BayouBiker) figure of 15% of a fully loaded TT to get TW I found myself with 315lbs. left.
That’s without the WD hitch or occupants.

Since my wife is set on a 25, unless my math is wrong it looks like I have to reluctantly part with my Tundra.
I’m not a fan of white knuckle driving.
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Old 10-21-2020, 05:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Using Brian’s (BayouBiker) figure of 15% of a fully loaded TT to get TW I found myself with 315lbs. left.

That’s without the WD hitch or occupants.



Since my wife is set on a 25, unless my math is wrong it looks like I have to reluctantly part with my Tundra.

I’m not a fan of white knuckle driving.

Hi Tom

Your Tundra can easily tow any Airstream there are thousands towing with them. As long as you set the hitch up properly it is safer and more stable than any 3/4 ton.

If you like send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send you a column on understanding the payload number and information on how to set the hitch up properly. Send me your tire size year and configuration of the Tundra.

These two articles might help as well.


https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/


https://rvlifemag.com/built-to-tow-or-marketed-to-tow/

I hope this helps.

Andy
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:57 AM   #12
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I often cringe when I hear the term stable used to suggest a vehicle with a 9,800 towing limit at 980 lb tongue weight will tow more safely than a vehicle with a 17500 lb limit 1,750 tongue limit. The term implies the smaller vehicle will presumably be less likely to experience sway and oversteer, the two leading causes of catastrophic towing accidents outside of driver error. But this is a physical impossibility unless one games the system by taking significant steps to shore up the smaller vehicle and deliberately handicaps the larger one. The laws of physics cannot be ignored.
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Old 10-21-2020, 08:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
Using Brian’s (BayouBiker) figure of 15% of a fully loaded TT to get TW I found myself with 315lbs. left.
That’s without the WD hitch or occupants.

Since my wife is set on a 25, unless my math is wrong it looks like I have to reluctantly part with my Tundra.
I’m not a fan of white knuckle driving.
I am thinking that you are close enough on your numbers that you could try your Tundra before changing tow vehicles. And by try, I mean both seeing how it tows and doing weighs to figure out where you stand. I tow a FC 25RBT with a full size SUV and I like our SUV a whole lot better than I would like a 3/4. Would a 3/4 tow better? Sure, but I don't think we are doing anything unsafe or I wouldn't be doing it.
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Old 10-21-2020, 10:56 AM   #14
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Greetings from the Florida Panhandle

Hi Tom. Your Airstream/tow vehicle dilemma is one that I have seen hundreds of times here on AirForums over the years. You are in a better position than many as you already own the tow vehicle that you want to try out. Get your Airstream and try out the Tundra. See how it feels towing in real world situations. If it feels adequate, you're all set. If not, then you can reconsider your options.

Here are a few issues to consider if you are going to change to a new tow vehicle. We have a 2015 Flying Cloud 25FB. She weighs 7,400# ready to camp with a tongue weight of 950# including our Hensley Arrow Hitch System. According to the Airstream Website, there is only a 2# difference between the tongue weight of the 25FB and 25RB, so which 25 you choose is of little consequence.

Your towing agenda can also impact the adequacy of your tow vehicle. If your plan is for short trips in the flats, your Tundra will probably doo just fine. If you plan big trips cross country through all types of terrain, you may find the Tundra lacking.

Best wishes in your undertaking. Either way, you will love Airestreaming.

Brian
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Old 10-21-2020, 11:30 AM   #15
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This may be of interest to others because I’ve seen it come up in other threads about TV’s.
As I’m trying to figure out if I can keep my Tundra I’ve seen the issue of insurance coverage being denied (even after the fact) if you’re TV isn’t properly matched to your trailer.
I thought if the insurance companies had a formula for matching TV to TT I could use that info to make a determination about about keeping or changing my TV.

Nope!
My insurance told me if the TV has liability insurance I will be covered.
They don’t have a formula.
So there is that.
It doesn’t help me make the decision but it does relieve some stress.
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:10 PM   #16
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I towed a FC 23FB for 14000 miles with no prob with a Tundra Crewmax, with 120K miles on it
I am now towing a 27FB with a newer model CrewMax and do not forsee any problems
on both TV's I installed SumoSprings on the rear axle -- great product!
my first Tundra towed a 9000 lb trailer from Wash state down to the Tip of Baja and back, up to Calgary and back, with no probs -- driveline good, tranny good
like I said, 120K miles when I traded it in, and it never used a drop of oil between changes, and no problems with the tranny or chassis
I did keep up on the maintenance and had all the gear fluids changed at 60,000 miles and 90,000 miles
it is a bullet proof truck! -- your 25 footer should be no problem
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:13 PM   #17
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Aghhhh, all these people that just go by "on paper"
the Tundra will handle the 25 footer no prob and no white knuckles
if you want white knuckles try towing a big, flat sided standard 9000 lb trailer down Baja's Hwy 1! (with the Tundra, BEFORE I had the Sumo Springs!!) after that anything in the states is a walk in the park!
try using your Tundra, -- if it is not comfortable for you THEN upgrade, but do not do it just because it does not appear to work out "on paper"
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:09 AM   #18
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My previous posts were not intended to imply the Tundra is a poor fit for a 25' trailer. As was mentioned by others, it will very likely tow more comfortably, and will be less clumsy, when set up well, than many larger vehicles.

With respect to manufacturers tongue limit guidance, if and when it is provided, it applies at maximum towing capacity so when you are towing significantly under max as is the case here, so long as the receiver mount is strong and axle limits are not exceeded, slightly higher tongue weights are possible and are safe. 5-7 psi higher pressure on the rear tires will help further improve safety margin.

I agree with others that the Tundra will do a nice job.
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Old 10-22-2020, 01:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
Hi Tom

Your Tundra can easily tow any Airstream there are thousands towing with them. As long as you set the hitch up properly it is safer and more stable than any 3/4 ton.

If you like send me an email andy@canamrv.ca and I can send you a column on understanding the payload number and information on how to set the hitch up properly. Send me your tire size year and configuration of the Tundra.

These two articles might help as well.


https://rvlifemag.com/towing-half-to...e-quarter-ton/


https://rvlifemag.com/built-to-tow-or-marketed-to-tow/

I hope this helps.

Andy
I agree with Andy. I tow a 28’ AS with an 2020 F150 that is rated to tow 12,500lbs. Before I towed with an F150 rated to tow 10,500lbs. Both work great. Absolutely no reason your tundra can’t handle it. It seems like people think and F250 is the only tow vehicle alive.

I do tow with a ProPride Hitch. And I did put on a roadmaster suspension system. When I am hitched up I have very little squat. Trailer is perfectly level. And the driving experience is completely relaxed.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:19 PM   #20
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Again, the Tundra will safely tow a 7,300 lb trailer with 1000 lb tongue and won't likely experience loss of control.

But you agree the Tundra with the 9,800 towing limit, will safely tow Airstreams of up to 1,400-1,500 lb tongue weight with less risk of control loss in severe crosswinds or other serious road situations than all 3/4 ton trucks with for example 17,000 lb and more towing capacity and 1,700 lb tongue weight limits? How can we know the Tundra won't go out of control at 70 mph in a hard swerve but the 3/4 ton will?
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