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Old 06-01-2020, 01:55 PM   #1
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What Airstream can I tow?

I just have bought a Jeep Gladiator Sport with a 6750 LB Tow cap and over all Weight of 12800.
My wife and I are now looking at getting an Airstream 25RB but the numbers are just up to the limit.
I would hate to have to replace the jeep as we thought it would be fun to have this vehicle out in the dessert.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:10 PM   #2
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Hello Menard,

Welcome to Air Forums. You've come to the right place to learn all about Airstream products and related information. I suspect you'll get plenty of opinions about what your Jeep can (or cannot) tow safely.

I'd like to pose a different way(s) of thinking about buying an Airstream:

First, vintage trailers come to mind. The older Airstream and Argosy trailers are generally much lighter than new models. So, if you could find a suitable vintage unit, ready to go camping, tweak the interior with some new upholstery perhaps, you'll be able to tow a larger trailer than if you buy a new/recent model.

If a new Airstream is a must have for whatever reason, be careful of limiting your trailer purchase to suit your tow vehicle. Many people have purchased a "certain" size Airstream trailer based on their existing vehicle only to find they've made a mistake. So maybe the question to ask is... How much do I want the Jeep and how much do I want a specific size (large or small) Airstream trailer and maybe also ask... is there a way to have both? That leads to maybe a good used, but larger, tow vehicle that won't break the bank but permits you to have the size of trailer that you want. Maybe a good used Airstream (not vintage) and a good used tow vehicle will allow you to keep the Jeep and go off-roading too.

Of course there are lots of people that don't want a big trailer (regardless of brand) because the Jeep off-roading aspect of their adventures is the more significant aspect of their lives. Maybe you're one of those people - want something more comfortable than a tent but don't need all the size of a long/spacious trailer. In which case, a small Airstream may fit your desire for modern day conveniences with the limitation of a compact space.
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Old 06-01-2020, 04:25 PM   #3
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^
X2

Do not limit what Airstream to buy by what you have already to tow it.
If it's the right AS choice it will likely outlast the TV.

This is one time when it's OK to put the Cart in front of the Horse.👍

POI...whatever the listed factory tongue weight is add between 250-350lb to it, and don't forget to add a sensible cargo amount. 1k-1.5k
Another consideration...the stiffer the TV suspension the more chance of structural problems with the AS. Popped rivets and panel warpage/cracks.


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Old 06-01-2020, 04:40 PM   #4
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Good numbers for the 25RB would be 7300 max weight and 1000# for the tongue weight. 7300 from the brochure and 1000# using 835# brochure and plus 165# since they always weigh more.

So, over on the tow weight. For the tongue weight impact you need to get the actual weight from the yellow door sticker on the Jeep which will have actual not marketing weights. Does the Jeep allow a 1000# tongue weight? Once you put the load of passengers, full fuel, camping gear in the Jeep and see how it all works together.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:24 AM   #5
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You will get lots off feed back here - the best thing to do is work through the numbers ... the last thing you want to happen is put yourself and family is danger. You might be interested in reading my article on the exercise we did in choosing a tow vehicle for our Int'l 25 Airstream.
how-to-determine-if-your-tow-vehicle-is-right-for-your-trailer/
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:39 AM   #6
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Basecamp. Maybe.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menard View Post
I just have bought a Jeep Gladiator Sport with a 6750 LB Tow cap and over all Weight of 12800.
My wife and I are now looking at getting an Airstream 25RB but the numbers are just up to the limit.
I would hate to have to replace the jeep as we thought it would be fun to have this vehicle out in the dessert.

Thoughts?
*****
I searched the 2020 Gladiator Sport model having a towing capacity of 4,000 pounds and the Jeep weighs in at a curb weight of 4,650 pounds.

I towed the 25 foot International with a 2012 Tundra 5.7L 4x4 and the truck... sat a down a bit at the hitch, no matter the adjustment of the Equalizer Hitch, but towed the trailer well. The Tundra had a towing capacity of 6,400 to 10,500 pounds. Curb weight 4,950 to 5,690 pounds.

Add a three inch Lift Kit and ADD two 80 watt Solar panels that should fit.

I think you are either going to need a larger tow vehicle or a lighter trailer. The current 23 foot uses 15 inch wheels and axles, which can be 'upgraded' to 16 inch wheels and Michelins and important: DOUBLE AXLE, as well. Need that for OTG Boondocking.

The 23 foot and 25 foot Airstream models are MY choice for a Boondocking trailer off the Interstate highways. It will take many years before you want to... get a longer Airstream to tow.

Nvestysly's advice is excellent. I just added some numbers.

I needed a F350 Diesel 4x4 to easily tow the 25 foot and the 27 foot where we go, fully loaded on mountain roads... up and especially down. Towing capacity of 12,100 pounds up to 14,000 pounds. Maximum payload of 4,130. Off the charts for most, but I find lots of rocks when we travel.

The overkill of the F350 has not damaged the Airstream. Just those individuals who think they can keep of with me going UP a mountain... and SLOW DOWN going a mountain. One is important. The other a way to get lousy gas mileage.

If you do RV Park travel... you can get by... but once you get hung up in the Forest... you may change your mind.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #8
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You mentioned desert. If you go off road the shorter trailers, with a lift give you more clearence.
I would stay at 23 or under if doing significant off road.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:22 AM   #9
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Towing a Travel Trailer (including Airstreams)

You are asking what might be considered the most popular topic on these Forums, other than statements about the Quality of new Airstreams?
Tools you need to use to answer this question:

1. Search these forums for previous advice on towing
2. TFL YouTube channel includes a review of the Gladiator towing an off road vehicle on a utility trailer. Some of the comments that viewers have made on this video: Too much squat (rear end sag) and Gladiator has the wrong engine at this time for towing.
3. Understanding of the following weight restrictions the TV’s manufacturer includes: Payload/Cargo (Includes hitch weight), Gross Front Axle Weight, Gross Rear Axle Weight, Gross Combined Vehicle Weight, and Tow weight limitations
https://webcontent.goodsam.com/trail...wGuide2020.pdf. Good source for information on towing.
4. Visit an RV park and see the various travel trailers and tow vehicles at the park, and ask the owners why they chose their specific TV’s.
- Consider the amount of people that purchase a tent trailer and then move on to a hard sided trailer, fifth wheeler, Class A, Class B, or Class C, because there needs and/or expectations change. IF your TV can only safely tow a small trailer, then when you move up to a larger trailer, your TV becomes replaceable.

Decision on TV is yours and based on my experience, majority of folks are towing their AS’s with a vehicle that is within manufacturers towing specifications. As we were towing our 26’ AS up an 8% climb in the foothills of Denver, near Conifer, I was very glad we made the decision to purchase a gas powered super duty! As you know, what goes up, must come down, and the brakes and transmission controls make both processes effortless.

It would be great to hear what you decide on for a trailer.
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Old 06-02-2020, 10:49 AM   #10
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When I upgraded our 2015 23D Internal Serenity from the stock 14" GYM tires and wheels to 15" SenDel 5 Lug wheels and 15" Michelin tires (second set because of time are Michelin 235/75/R15 XL 109T Defender tires derated to 2,044 pound load), we had to trim the curb side front of the wheel well to match the street side and allow the 15" tires to fit. There was no way I could have put 16" Michelins on that trailer, one because of the diameter and width of 16" tires and there are no five lug wheels for 16" tires, only six or eight lug wheels. Those tires would be too much tire for the weights involved with our 23D.

Our actual 23D numbers fully loaded for camping are:

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2,609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

We have towed the 23D with my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel since I picked it up in New Jersey. The Mercedes with 200,000 miles is about to go to pasture and be replaced with a 2020 Highlander (non hybrid). Both the Mercedes and the Highlander had or will have a reinforcer 2" square tube welded to reinforce the stock receiver to handle weight distribution from the Hensley Arrow hitch (which we used previously on our 2013 25FB International Serenity).
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menard View Post
I just have bought a Jeep Gladiator Sport with a 6750 LB Tow cap and over all Weight of 12800.
My wife and I are now looking at getting an Airstream 25RB but the numbers are just up to the limit.
I would hate to have to replace the jeep as we thought it would be fun to have this vehicle out in the dessert.

Thoughts?
Are you saying the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) of your Jeep is 12,800? If that is the case, I think my 25' would overload it. Do some math to be sure>

1st step -
Add the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) of the truck and the GVWR of the trailer. If the sum of those two numbers is less than 12,800 move to next step. If not, it's a no go IMO.

2nd step -
Add the weight of all cargo that is loaded upon the tow vehicle (passengers, animals, generator, camping gear, all things inside the glove box and storage, the weight of the hitch, tongue weight of the loaded trailer, etc, EVERYTHING). If the sum of those numbers is less than or just over but extremely close to the GCWR (gross cargo weight rating) on the door sticker, it is ok to consider this vehicle as a tow vehicle for that trailer. If not, it is a no go IMO.

3rd step - (IMO)
Consider the specifications and equipment of the tow vehicle. Examples>
a. Is there a proper tow package on the tow vehicle? (larger brakes for downhill and/or an emergency, an engine oil cooler, a transmission fluid cooler, wiring harness, etc.)
b. Is the hitch rated to carry the loaded trailer tongue in addition to the weight of the hitching equipment?
c. Are the axles rated to carry the load, especially the rear?
d. Are the tires rated to carry the load?
e. Is the gear ratio too high, or low enough to pull well?
f. etc.
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:18 PM   #12
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It seems that most mid size trucks and SUV's have decent tow ratings, the problem is when you get to A W Warn's "3rd Step", this is where you can and do run into lots of trouble.

The cargo capacity of these trucks is typically lower and a ~900 lbs tongue weight that you could easily see with a 25' dual axle AS will eat up most of that capacity. This will only leave you the small balance (varies depending on which model of Jeep) for people and pets and cargo.

I see the Jeep as far more capable than our Honda Ridgeline. We are maxing out our trucks numbers when it comes to cargo and our trailer is one of the lighter trailers in recent years. For example, if I were to get a 2020 22' Bambi, I probably wouldn't pull it with the Ridgeline due to the tongue weight going over the trucks spec. We have 5,000 lbs towing and 600 lbs tongue weight maximums. All I need to do is put some fresh water in the tank and I am over my trucks spec'd tongue weight.

You should check the Jeep's maximum tongue weight capacity to help move your choice along (that info should be in your owners manual).

I do really like the idea of cruising around the desert with the Jeep, that sounds like a blast! I really hope it works out for you!
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menard View Post
I just have bought a Jeep Gladiator Sport with a 6750 LB Tow cap and over all Weight of 12800.
My wife and I are now looking at getting an Airstream 25RB but the numbers are just up to the limit.
I would hate to have to replace the jeep as we thought it would be fun to have this vehicle out in the dessert.

Thoughts?
Hi Menard and welcome to the Airstream community and forums!

Congratulations on the new Jeep Gladiator, very cool looking truck. Check out the TFL Trucks video doing a tow test with the Gladiator here to see what it can do in the real world.

As you suspected, you’re a little short on payload and capacity to comfortably handle a 25’ AS although the RB would be a little lighter on the tongue. Robert Cross offers sage advice; you’ll likely have the AS longer than the TV. That said, you should be able to handle a 23’ AS.

We did the same thing you did with getting a TV before the trailer. We started with a VW Touareg TDI which had similar tow numbers as your Gladiator. We actually put money down on a 25RB before realizing we’d be over the limits. The next day we settled for the FC23FB. Loved the “Airstream experience” but not the U-shaped dinette in the 23. At the end of the season we traded it for a 27’ GT and got a RAM 2500.

You should go check out all the Airstreams 23’ and under to see if any of them would meet your needs but be honest with yourselves. If the answer is no, consider a new TV with enough capacity to do it with ease.

By the way, we’re northwest of you in McHenry. Send me a PM if you’d like to talk offline.

Good luck!
Jeff
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Old 06-02-2020, 03:24 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menard View Post
I just have bought a Jeep Gladiator Sport with a 6750 LB Tow cap and over all Weight of 12800.
My wife and I are now looking at getting an Airstream 25RB but the numbers are just up to the limit.
I would hate to have to replace the jeep as we thought it would be fun to have this vehicle out in the dessert.

Thoughts?
We towed a 17' Casita all over the desert with our Jeep JK and loved it. When we got the AS 25' we dumped the Jeep and bought a Tundra no way you can talk a AS into the desert with a Jeep.
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Old 06-02-2020, 06:35 PM   #15
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I likewise enjoy a mix of technical off-roading with boondocking and RV camping. They are equal in weight in my enjoyment of the outdoors.

The right answer here is not a traditional cart before the horse or vice versa. Perhaps a more considered balance between the two. A heavy load bearing truck recommended earlier is not the answer IMO as they are a poor choice with spring rates simply not appropriate to absorbing uneven terrain, and little to no articulation for obstacles.

Needing compliant suspension for off-road performance and heavier spring rates for load support in towing may seem at odds. The Jeep Gladiator is one of the few vehicles that does find a reasonable balance between the two needs.

From my experience, I believe a 25' modern era 8.5' widebody AS is going to be just beyond a comfortable tow for a Gladiator. A dual axle 23' AS with 8' narrow body should be right within its sweet spot.

Some things to consider is that the OP may even upsize their tires and lift the suspension, things that may marginally compromise the towing performance. So towing something on the fringe of the spec'd capacity should be avoided. I would highly recommend lifting the AS for such travels as they tend to have minimal ground clearance especially in gulleys and elevation transitions (with almost zero compromise!)

Jeepers and overlanders know that good off-roaders have good articulation. Ramp Travel Index (RTI) speaks directly to this capability. Traditional trucks make great tow vehicles, but they give up a lot of off-road capability.

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570: 645
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high): 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 449
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'17 Nissan Armada: 362
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:20 AM   #16
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Thank you for the great input and lots to think about. I would assume we will figure out a larger TV as it will be easier than living with my Wife in a smaller trailer!
Also Please see the attached Photo I got off Jeeps Website!
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:19 AM   #17
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I agree with the others. We don't have a lot of stuff in our 25FB, just enough to make camping fun and last weekend on a trip to the Smoky Mountains just before I left I filled the fresh tank and half filled the black tank then stopped at the CAT scales. The trailer weighed 7100 lbs and the tongue was 1085 lbs. We put a lot of our stuff in the truck bed so our payload (full tanks, the two of us, dutch oven, grill, bikes, lawn games, blocks etc) was 1100 lbs.

I don't see how one can keep it under 6750 unless you never travel with anything in the tanks.

Likewise, it will be difficult to practically keep the tongue weight below 950. Who wants to fuss with balancing weight all the time? You can make it work but you will have to do it with finesse and you will constantly have to travel light.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:30 PM   #18
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If one puts helium in the propane tanks, they would be lighter.....
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:48 PM   #19
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Had a long chat today with a Toyota dealer friend of many years in Bloomington, Indiana and decided to pull the trigger on a 2020 Toyota All Wheel Drive Platinum trim Highlander with the 3.5L V6 and eight speed transmission. He had a "reservation" build spot he is changing for the last week in June so it should be at his store by 8 July. The Toyota Highlander factory is about three hours away in Princeton, Indiana.

I plan to drive the 2007 Mercedes (which just rolled over 200,000 miles) back to Indiana loaded with well aged computer stuff for my grand kids and apply the Mercedes value towards a small portion of the Highlander cost.

The details of getting a factory hitch installed on the top Highlander trim line where it is not an option and then aligning the Hensley Stinger to handle a 3.5" off set to the Highlander receiver will be posted when figured out and completed. The factory hitch will have reinforcing welding done to support the Hensley Arrow weight distribution system at a location in Los Angles after I get back to Arizona.

The first detail after purchase will be a trip across CAT scales with a full gas tank and me in the car to obtain the actual numbers for this specific vehicle. I know the trailer numbers.
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:55 AM   #20
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Thank you for the great input and lots to think about. I would assume we will figure out a larger TV as it will be easier than living with my Wife in a smaller trailer!
Also Please see the attached Photo I got off Jeeps Website!
Interesting marketing; methinks that truck is squatting a bit and looks a little light in the front . . .
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