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Old 06-18-2020, 05:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
It would be useful to hear about ride quality while towing. If it feels harsh and stiff for the vehicle passengers you can safely assume the trailer is feeling it too. The conventional rule to avoid bars heavier than you need for the task is tried and true. Not trying to alarm anyone, a harsh ride is not going to cause structural damage, but it can jar things loose, and as bob says, it's not necessary.
Well I’ve only towed twice with it. Third time coming up tomorrow. But so far, no evidence of a harsher ride. The only thing I’ve noticed so far is the total absence of sway from wind or an 18-wheeler passing me. Will report back after this upcoming trip and try to pay more attention to ride quality.

Note I did have an L bracket move forward after the first tow. Retorqued and it didn’t happen again. Didn’t chalk it down as stiffness of the bars but rather having to short of a socket so not torqued properly.

Photo of the rig, FYI.
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Old 06-18-2020, 06:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by TravisH View Post
These are anecdotal by definition.

A scientific study would reveal demonstrably repeatable results and those are lacking.

The hitch is just one part of the system. Simply seeing a flex and pointing at a hitch is far from the whole story.

Set up is everything! Static weight distribution and not using the hitches force to over balance a load. I think the WD hitches should work minimally. The Blue Ox for instance say "move the chain link" ie increase the strain to balance the load! There should be a standard set up on a properly installed and balanced load and recommending to just just crank it down..... Blue Ox instructions should say if not level double check your load...not crank it down....

Thanks!

Trav
Thanks, but you dont know me. I have owned and used on my AS:

Eq with 1k bars
Reese straight line with 800# bars
And haha with 1k bars.

I have weighed, played and observed. There is a noticeable difference. My experience is anecdotal, yes, but valid

Do a search and find inland Andy's study.
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:37 PM   #43
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So I found some time this afternoon so I took the trailer out to a quiet area and setup my hitch.

My tongue weight was just under 500 lbs. according to my hitch scale and the TrueTow app told me to setup up my distributed load to 1,000 lbs. This was easy and so was levelling the trailer and truck.

The load bars initially were tight but have a lot of flex so I was able to flip them up onto the retaining pads. It took very little effort to crank up the adjuster to reach the desired 1,000 lbs.

I think the bars in this system are different to the fixed point WDH hitches where in those systems, the load bars are set by the engineers based on the section elasticity. This is the primary flex point where these systems can move. apart from the TV receiver and the trailer A-frame.

With this system, you assemble everything and then using a bunch of dimensions and loads, and the app, you are able to dial in a value using the hydraulic scale.

The road test proved to be very smooth. I was quite surprised at how the combo seemed to be as one. This being my first WDH, I don't have a reference point but I do know what the truck feels like with the standard hitch and with out a trailer at all.

After hearing about the challenges that other have had setting up their hitches, I have to say that this one went together as stated in the owners manual.

The trailer is 1/8" higher in the front. The truck is about 1/2" low in the rear.

I need to find a scale to take the combo over to see what is happening with the axle weights.
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Old 06-18-2020, 09:47 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
Well Iíve only towed twice with it. Third time coming up tomorrow. But so far, no evidence of a harsher ride. The only thing Iíve noticed so far is the total absence of sway from wind or an 18-wheeler passing me. Will report back after this upcoming trip and try to pay more attention to ride quality.

Note I did have an L bracket move forward after the first tow. Retorqued and it didnít happen again. Didnít chalk it down as stiffness of the bars but rather having to short of a socket so not torqued properly.

Photo of the rig, FYI.
It is important to make sure that the L brackets are as close to 32" from the hitch ball. This gives the bar more length to flex which makes for a smoother ride. They are asking for 65 ft-lbs of torgue on those bolts and if they are loose, they will slop around and wear on the trailer A-frame.

What does your DTW number look like? Mine came in at 1,000 lbs today based on 475 lbs Tongue Weight and all the dimensions that I entered into the app.
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Old 06-19-2020, 05:14 AM   #45
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Thanks Brian. On the True Tow, could relieving the tension be to simply dial down the distributed tongue weight in your opinion or is it completely removing the bars? Former is simpler obviously hence my question.
I would think so if most or all of the static is relieved. It would certainly be worth experimenting if you can. A little uneven tension won't be a problem.
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Old 06-19-2020, 05:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
It is important to make sure that the L brackets are as close to 32" from the hitch ball. This gives the bar more length to flex which makes for a smoother ride. They are asking for 65 ft-lbs of torgue on those bolts and if they are loose, they will slop around and wear on the trailer A-frame.

What does your DTW number look like? Mine came in at 1,000 lbs today based on 475 lbs Tongue Weight and all the dimensions that I entered into the app.
My DTW is 1150 with a 490 tongue weight. Estimated gross trailer weight is at 4000. Didnít weigh it yet. Need to find the time to make my way to a scale. This is just me taking the Airstream spec and adding my cargo which I did weigh. Whatís your GTW? That and our axle/ball/bracket measurements should explain the difference.

On the L brackets, they are at 29íí. The dual battery box is preventing me from going further back. Iím hoping they wonít move anymore. The space is so tight between the batteries and propane that I had to get a shallow torque wrench socket to properly tighten the nuts. The first time I installed them, my socket was too long and half way in. I assume that was the issue. They werenít torqued to specs.

Happy your first tow went well. Going out tonight for the weekend. It will be my third tow with the hitch. Will report back.
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Old 06-19-2020, 09:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by steilkurve View Post
My DTW is 1150 with a 490 tongue weight. Estimated gross trailer weight is at 4000. Didnít weigh it yet. Need to find the time to make my way to a scale. This is just me taking the Airstream spec and adding my cargo which I did weigh. Whatís your GTW? That and our axle/ball/bracket measurements should explain the difference.

On the L brackets, they are at 29íí. The dual battery box is preventing me from going further back. Iím hoping they wonít move anymore. The space is so tight between the batteries and propane that I had to get a shallow torque wrench socket to properly tighten the nuts. The first time I installed them, my socket was too long and half way in. I assume that was the issue. They werenít torqued to specs.

Happy your first tow went well. Going out tonight for the weekend. It will be my third tow with the hitch. Will report back.
My numbers in the app are:

60.25" Rear Vehicle Axle
32" Tow ball spring connection
160" Tow ball to Trailer Axle
1.5" Holes in drop position
4000# Estimated GTW
475# Tongue Weight off the scale
1000# DTW (is the output that I got)

I think the load (1,000 lbs) that I put into the system is quite light. The rear of the truck did go up and the front went down. The trailer sits perfectly level and the ride is very smooth (just took about 20 minutes). I didn't notice any jarring or bouncy. This could be due to the squishy ride that Honda built into the Ridgeline.

Perhaps a leaf spring rear suspension would transfer more of jarring and bouncing into chassis?

I tried to shorten the bars to 29" in my app and my DTW number jumped to 1,100 lbs.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:14 AM   #48
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Thanks for the update. The numbers look good to me, and your reports of a smooth ride is encouraging to! When you hit an impulse type bump like an overpass expansion joint tell me how the truck responds. Up down stop, Up down up stop, etc.

This kind of objective and subjective info helps for future questions others might have.

Spring design affects other things, not so much the basic spring rate and thus stiffness. Shorter bars require more tension to generate the same torque that is why it jumps.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:47 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by BayouBiker View Post
Thanks for the update. The numbers look good to me, and your reports of a smooth ride is encouraging to! When you hit an impulse type bump like an overpass expansion joint tell me how the truck responds. Up down stop, Up down up stop, etc.

This kind of objective and subjective info helps for future questions others might have.

Spring design affects other things, not so much the basic spring rate and thus stiffness. Shorter bars require more tension to generate the same torque that is why it jumps.
There was one transition that went went over and heard a rattle from the slop in the drawbar. I think this means that the system completely unloaded due to the angle of the trailer relative to the truck. There was maybe one noticeable affect on the truck but nothing I would call bouncing. This truck only has 3,000 miles on it so everything is still tight.
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Old 06-19-2020, 11:04 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
Thanks, but you dont know me. I have owned and used on my AS:

Eq with 1k bars
Reese straight line with 800# bars
And haha with 1k bars.

I have weighed, played and observed. There is a noticeable difference. My experience is anecdotal, yes, but valid

Do a search and find inland Andy's study.
Cool!

Did you do all these all these set up with exact tow vehicles and Airstream? Same hitch height? Same load with exact weights for each wheel and hitch? Tires and tire pressure the same? Same time of year and road conditions? What was the particulars of the Eq set up since it involves washers to adjust tilt?

What adjustment did you find made the greatest change in performance?

Not trying to be provocative but genuinely curious! I'm installing an Equalizer today!

Thanks!
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Old 06-20-2020, 04:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by PB_NB View Post
My numbers in the app are:

60.25" Rear Vehicle Axle
32" Tow ball spring connection
160" Tow ball to Trailer Axle
1.5" Holes in drop position
4000# Estimated GTW
475# Tongue Weight off the scale
1000# DTW (is the output that I got)

I think the load (1,000 lbs) that I put into the system is quite light. The rear of the truck did go up and the front went down. The trailer sits perfectly level and the ride is very smooth (just took about 20 minutes). I didn't notice any jarring or bouncy. This could be due to the squishy ride that Honda built into the Ridgeline.

Perhaps a leaf spring rear suspension would transfer more of jarring and bouncing into chassis?

I tried to shorten the bars to 29" in my app and my DTW number jumped to 1,100 lbs.
My full numbers are from the last two:

56" Rear Vehicle Axle
26" Tow ball spring connection
161" Tow ball to Trailer Axle
3.5" Holes in rise position
4000# Estimated GTW
500# Tongue Weight off the scale
1200# DTW (is the latest output that I got)

DTW went up by 50 as I refreshed holes number after levelling the rig a bit better. Iíll measure the tow ball spring connection again as I was able to move back the L brackets a bit with my shallow socket and thinner wrench. Maybe 27 now (29 now if measured as per install instructions). I get to 1050 DTW if I put in 32 for tow ball spring connection. So looks like this is the biggest factor.

Iím in the middle of a camping trip. Hitch performed admirably well on the way to. So much so that itís starting to create a range issue... ;-) I almost forget Iím pulling given how stable it is and get out of the sweet mph spot to maximize the mileage I get out of my Model X.

Brian, I noticed some bounce when going over rough expansion joints. Iíd described them as a first bounce, stop, a second smaller and then back to stable. Note the X with 20íí tires has a very cushy, somewhat bouncy ride with its air suspension already. Iíd say the rig ads the second smaller bounce. All very subjective.

And finally, a shot our beloved Airstream where we are right now. Photo taken from the hammock where Iím writing this post!
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Old 06-20-2020, 09:06 PM   #52
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It looks like the numbers that make the biggest change to the DTW are, Tongue Weight as measured on the scale at the time of setup and the functional length of the spring bars. The other numbers don't seem to make much difference at least when I play around with it. There might be more of an impact with the others numbers if the other loads were much higher.

Glad to see you enjoying your trip!

I will dial it back in for our next trip and see how it performs.

We are heading out on Monday to this spot:
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Old 06-21-2020, 08:10 AM   #53
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Sounds like the hitch performs well. Glad to hear it is not overly stiff for your set up.

FYI, the distribution ratios, that is the percentage of weight returned to the front, verses the percentage added to the trailer axle is entirely a function of the tow vehicle wheel base, the length of the tension bars and the distance from rear axle to ball mount. The required tension as noted, is a function of the bar length and the length of the trailer.
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Old 06-21-2020, 04:23 PM   #54
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It looks like the numbers that make the biggest change to the DTW are, Tongue Weight as measured on the scale at the time of setup and the functional length of the spring bars. The other numbers don't seem to make much difference at least when I play around with it. There might be more of an impact with the others numbers if the other loads were much higher.

Glad to see you enjoying your trip!

I will dial it back in for our next trip and see how it performs.

We are heading out on Monday to this spot:
You lucky west coaster! Looks gorgeous. Love BC. Been many times but never camping. One day weíll make it to your great province all the way from Quebec with our X and AS!

Just returned from this weekendís outing. As stable on the way back. Did notice my DTW on the gauge had gone down to 900. Usually stays close to what I set it at last. Will see if itís just a fluke next time I tow.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:50 AM   #55
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Our first trip worked out great.

We set the hitch up with a tongue weight of 500 lbs with a DTW of 1050 lbs. We had a good load on the truck and trailer was loaded for 4 days of camping. Everything except the fresh water tank was empty and the other tanks were empty.

I lowered the connection on the drawbar by an inch which brought the front of the trailer down about 3/4".

The drive was very nice!. Not harsh at all. I expect that was due to the softer ride of the Honda's suspension. It was very well behaved and other large vehicles passing did not affect the trailer. Weight distribution in general is quite something!

We had no issues with the hitch and setup was quick and easy. Backing up was not an issue either . I mention this as it seems that some systems don't like to go backwards. I am not too sure why.

The only complaint I have is that all the parts are heavy! Also, it is a bit pricey compared to other systems with a lighter tongue weight of ~600 lbs range.
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:05 PM   #56
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GTW, DTW...😂 What's next? PTW?

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Old 06-29-2020, 07:22 PM   #57
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GTW, DTW...😂 What's next? PTW?

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CAPDTW

Combined Average Percentage of Distributed Tongue Weight!

This must NOT exceed the total combined weight of the hitch + bumper + number of propane tanks divided by the colour of the trailer x 100!
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Old 06-29-2020, 07:37 PM   #58
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All very important I'm sure...but totally irrelevant here for the last 35yrs.
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:35 AM   #59
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Our first trip worked out great.

We set the hitch up with a tongue weight of 500 lbs with a DTW of 1050 lbs. We had a good load on the truck and trailer was loaded for 4 days of camping. Everything except the fresh water tank was empty and the other tanks were empty.

I lowered the connection on the drawbar by an inch which brought the front of the trailer down about 3/4".

The drive was very nice!. Not harsh at all. I expect that was due to the softer ride of the Honda's suspension. It was very well behaved and other large vehicles passing did not affect the trailer. Weight distribution in general is quite something!

We had no issues with the hitch and setup was quick and easy. Backing up was not an issue either . I mention this as it seems that some systems don't like to go backwards. I am not too sure why.

The only complaint I have is that all the parts are heavy! Also, it is a bit pricey compared to other systems with a lighter tongue weight of ~600 lbs range.
Very nice. Happy to hear.

Agree on component weight. That's the drawback to this system if there is one.

Do you raise the jack to attach the spring arms or did you just use the tool? I do find that I loose a bit of time with the jack raising to load and unload the bars and then use the tool anyway.
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Old 06-30-2020, 08:28 AM   #60
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Very nice. Happy to hear.

Agree on component weight. That's the drawback to this system if there is one.

Do you raise the jack to attach the spring arms or did you just use the tool? I do find that I loose a bit of time with the jack raising to load and unload the bars and then use the tool anyway.
I think I had the trailer jack down when putting the bars on and taking them off. I also had the tensioning screw back out all the way. Putting the bars on is easy and done by hand. I think this is because I loosen the tension screw first so the load on the scale is reading "0".

On a side note about the suspensions of our TV's compared to a leaf spring setup. I might see if my buddy who has a F350 if we can try to move the trailer around wit his truck and see how it feels.
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