|
|
01-03-2012, 07:47 PM
|
#121
|
Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
|
[QUOTE=dznf0g;1089277]I'd move about 150# off the tongue weight. Remember moving 75# from front wall to the back wall will remove 150# from the tongue weight. (not exactly, but you get the picture)
Total trailer weight = 6040
Presently 14.2 % of total on tongue
at 710# tongue weight, you'd be at 11.75% I always shoot for 12%.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
|
|
|
01-04-2012, 01:11 AM
|
#122
|
Rivet Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
|
I agree with the above suggestions that your rig could be made more safe with some simple changes. My naive reasoning is as follows:
1. We know that trailer instability is often caused by the truck steering wheels being lifted so that the correcting ability of the steering is reduced.
2. When we are towing we would want more steering force available, not less, for obvious reasons.
3. Therefore we need load distribution systems to achieve this. In your case the down force on the steering axle is reduced by 80 pounds from solo running, so you have less steering ability when the trailer is attached, the opposite of that which we desire.
If this was my rig I would adjust the hitch and tongue weight to at least get rid of that 80 pounds lift.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
|
|
|
01-04-2012, 05:29 AM
|
#123
|
Rivet Master
2002 25' Safari
Fountain Inn
, South Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 714
|
[QUOTE=dznf0g;1089278]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
I'd move about 150# off the tongue weight. Remember moving 75# from front wall to the back wall will remove 150# from the tongue weight. (not exactly, but you get the picture)
Total trailer weight = 6040
Presently 14.2 % of total on tongue
at 710# tongue weight, you'd be at 11.75% I always shoot for 12%.
|
I should not have any problem shifting 75 or more lbs to the rear. I am storing some heavy stuff under the sofa and in the forward overhead.
I need to go ahead and order a Sherline scale.
|
|
|
01-04-2012, 07:01 AM
|
#124
|
Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
|
I have to do the same thing next spring. Got a new Arvika bike rack for the tongue. So 2 bikes, the rack, and motor scooter ramps will now be on the front of the trailer. That's about 150# of increased tongue weight. (Well not really, cause the bikes used to ride in the living Room...but they're moving forward about 6') Anyway, AS is going on a diet and move some weight around first thing come March.
You'll find that the Shurline will be used at least once a season just to check things out, and each time you do something significant to your load.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
|
|
|
01-04-2012, 07:25 AM
|
#125
|
Rivet Master
2008 27' Classic FB
Burkburnett
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 985
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g
I can't remember where I got mine. That site lists McMaster Carr as a distributor. I'd hit the web and see who has the best price. I got the 2000# one since my trailer is potentially heavier. Not sure if you want a 1000# or a 2000#. I'd opt for 2000#, I think.
|
The Sherline scale scale is an example of function through simple design. It utilized a piston with a surface area of 1 sq inch. The mechanical gauge is most accurate mid scale, but reasonably accurate across the dial. To change the range of the scale, you only need to swap out the pressure gauge as they read directly in PSI.
This site has some useful info:
http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm
__________________
AIR 47751
|
|
|
01-04-2012, 07:40 AM
|
#126
|
Rivet Master
2007 30' Classic
Oswego
, Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,656
|
I seem to remember that....must be why I got the 2000# unit. I see they are now graduated in Kg's as well for our metric friends.
__________________
-Rich-
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
|
|
|
02-11-2012, 07:55 PM
|
#127
|
Rivet Master
2008 27' International FB
Petaluma
, California
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
|
My Set up and scale measurements
I actually set my rig up about 6 months ago when I installed the Reese dual cam after reading through the threads here (thanks as always to the community for the free-flowing advice!
The PO had installed an EZ lift with 1000# bars but it had no sway control. I ordered the Reese hitch from E-trailer who recommended 1200# bars. Then I read a few more threads here about rigging “too heavy” and ordered 800# bars before the install. If anyone needs 1200# bars, I have a couple of new ones! It took me a day to get the install right. I used the street around the corner (flat and level) for the work. Then I took another day to cycle through the local scales which is a privately held old single platform scale used locally for gravel and grain trucks. When I went over to get weighed, the operator was grouchy and said that she wouldn’t do any of the fancy (left side right side) weighing as it had a tendency to cause the scale to stick. After a few cycles around the building adjusting the hitch on each cycle, she (the operator) became interested in the process and looked over the numbers with me. She only charged me for one pass through the scales which was nice. Based on the original numbers, I went back a few days later with refinements and the hitch angle at max (setting 6). The AS was loaded with water/LP, truck full tank 44 gal of diesel (after taking out a loan at Wells Fargo to finance the fill). Driver only passenger in truck. I haven’t weighed the hitch at the ball yet.
2002 Ford Excursion 7.3 D GVWR 9950 Front GAW 4700 Rear GAW 5250 Trailer max 11000
2008 28FB CCD 7600 GVWR
Front Rear Trailer
Truck Only
4120 4220 N/A
No WD (Measured a few days earlier, not in series)
4040 5180 5900
WD 5 links
4000 5300 5740
WD 4 links (I travel with this set up)
4280 4880 5880
I’ve included some pictures of the setup which seems to be working well after a few thousand miles. The last measurements put me 520# under GAW front and 320# under GAW rear. I thought about going to 3 links but limiting the bar travel that much didn’t seem to be a good idea. If you have any ideas about this, let me know. I’m already at max tilt on the head.
The trailer bounces gently when the TV hits bumps. The only real issue I’ve had (besides scaring everyone inside and outside the truck when the cams disengage with a BANG) are that the self-threading bolts on one of the sway arms loosened and I actually lost one. I changed to grade 8 bolts but the damage was done on one (frame stripped when the original bolt came loose) so I just installed nutserts from Air Craft Spruce on the side that came loose. I’ll let you know how they work out.
Brad
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 01:17 AM
|
#128
|
Rivet Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,335
|
Excellent numbers, and a great looking result, IMHO.
Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 05:44 AM
|
#129
|
3 Rivet Member
2015 27' Flying Cloud
2011 30' International
mooresburg
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 206
|
I got a new truck. went from a tundra to a f250. Had to get a drop hitch. went to scales with first setup. steer 5020,drive 4440, trailer 6060, gross 15520.
trailer rode a little low. I raised the ball one hole and dropped one link. new numbers steer 5000, drive 4640, trailer 5980, gross 15620. it ride very nice and level. I can go up one link and even more level .
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 09:46 AM
|
#130
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtc6452
I got a new truck. went from a tundra to a f250. Had to get a drop hitch. went to scales with first setup. steer 5020,drive 4440, trailer 6060, gross 15520.
trailer rode a little low. I raised the ball one hole and dropped one link. new numbers steer 5000, drive 4640, trailer 5980, gross 15620. it ride very nice and level. I can go up one link and even more level .
|
Can't determine how much weight needs to be returned to the steering axle without a TV loaded weight un-hitched.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 10:25 AM
|
#131
|
Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
Can't determine how much weight needs to be returned to the steering axle without a TV loaded weight un-hitched.
Bob
|
X2
All other weight values are sort of second-class citizens to the FA weights, hitched & unhitched.
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 11:58 AM
|
#132
|
Rivet Master
2008 27' International FB
Petaluma
, California
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
|
Sorry,
A few questions.
"Loaded TV" :you mean fully loaded with gear and people? Ive thought about stopping in to the scales with a full load but I'd have to be sneaky and pull through while everyone is sleeping or fully engaged in a movie to avoid passenger unrest and complaining (teenagers), or engage several friends or sandbags to replace the real passengers.
FA: Please add a definition. I'm sure it's obvious but my blinders are thick!
Thanks,
Brad
__________________
Looking for adventure in whatever comes our way.
- Brad
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 12:24 PM
|
#133
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTrouper
Sorry,
A few questions.
"Loaded TV" :you mean fully loaded with gear and people? Ive thought about stopping in to the scales with a full load but I'd have to be sneaky and pull through while everyone is sleeping or fully engaged in a movie to avoid passenger unrest and complaining (teenagers), or engage several friends or sandbags to replace the real passengers.
FA: Please add a definition. I'm sure it's obvious but my blinders are thick!
Thanks,
Brad
|
Brad,
FA=front axle
Yes... you want the tow vehicle loaded as close to the way you will be towing.
I did it late at night when the CAT scales weren't busy, dropped the trailer and got a good weight on our loaded Burb complete with DW and dog.
sandbags are an option.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 12:42 PM
|
#134
|
Rivet Master
2008 27' International FB
Petaluma
, California
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
|
Thanks,
Then there's the 300 lbs of diesel fuel as a variable. I'l set up some more time to refine the measurements this spring. I might try to raise the ball a hole to be able to add a link but I'm afraid that hitch high will mean tail low albeit a half inch but I've already "tapped" the tail drags once or twice on high driveway entrances. Also the spec'd ball height is 17 1/2 and I'm already at 18 plus. Good news is that it all handles well and predictability as is but I want to ensure that it continues to so so in unexpected violent maneuvers.
Thanks for the guidance.
Brad
__________________
Looking for adventure in whatever comes our way.
- Brad
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 01:10 PM
|
#135
|
3 Rivet Member
2015 27' Flying Cloud
2011 30' International
mooresburg
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 206
|
I will get the truck weight unhitched.
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 03:32 PM
|
#136
|
Rivet Master
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
|
It's been a while since I did the hitch number crunching, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like Super's got a tongue weight of 960, and he's getting excellent steer axle re-load with 800# bars-- on a long wheelbase Excursion, no less.
Impressive.
Why is transfer so difficult on my 2500 'burb?
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 04:19 PM
|
#137
|
"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
|
Joe,
Am I missing something? I don't see a listed unhitched tongue weight,
Only calculated with wd set....
At 4 links the front axle is 160lbs over it's unloaded weight.
=================================================
I've not had a transfer problem with our Burb.
Arrow w/1000lb bars.
I'm a 100lbs light on the TV FA w/bars set. I have tried transfering, but that adds more weight to the trailer axles and really makes no difference towing.
Bob
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 04:21 PM
|
#138
|
Rivet Master
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,714
|
Supertrooper, I want to get other opinions on this, but it looks like the hitch head is tilted the wrong direction. It should be tilted down, so the the tension on the bar increases when the trailer turns on the ball.
As it is now, the tension will decrease if the trailer sways to the side losing benefits of the sway resistance of the hitch. I believe there also is a lifting pressure applied to the inside of the vehicles in a turn, opposite of what you would want.
There was a good article by Andrew Thomson in "Airstream Life" describing the effects of hitch head tilt, but I can't find it. It was referenced here on the forum a few months ago.
doug k
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 05:06 PM
|
#139
|
Rivet Master
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn
, Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
|
Bob,
I just took the 'no WD' drive axle weight and subtracted 'truck only' drive axle weight to get tongue... right?
You know I'm using the Arrow... with 1400# bars I have to crank 'em up to max, just to get reload on steer axle
|
|
|
02-12-2012, 06:16 PM
|
#140
|
Rivet Master
2008 27' International FB
Petaluma
, California
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,348
|
Hi Doug.
The head is tilted back toward the trailer as far as it will go which was the only way I could get the WD bars aimed low enough to take some of the weight at 4 or 5 links.
Unless I've got it backwards in my mind.
Brad
__________________
Looking for adventure in whatever comes our way.
- Brad
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|