Truck EV towing weights

[geo]

Regarding hauling bikes, you might want to check out the Fiamma Carry-Bikes rack. They have a model specifically designed for Airstreams. I had one installed on mine, and it works great. The only caveat is that it has a 75# load capacity, so you wouldn’t be able to use it to haul two e-bikes.

https://airstreamsupplycompany.com/p...kes-by-fiamma/

I have a reservation for the Tesla Cybertruck (tri-motor version), which is purported to have a 3500# loading and 14,000# towing capacity. That will allow me to upgrade to a larger Airstream than my 23’ International.

FWIW, Airstream is also working on an eStream concept trailer. It is much more aerodynamic, has full rooftop solar, and is self-propelled to extend the range of the towing vehicle. At only 22’, it’s a bit small for my taste, but I like the direction of thinking with this design.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by jcl

Fortune favours the prepared. I would not have ultra low profile tires, the risk isn't worth it to me.

For our dedicated winter tires, used when roads are more likely to have potholes/etc, we use -1 sizing to increase the sidewall and thus reduce the risk of road damage.

Yes, it is still possible to get a tire problem. But proper maintenance, regular inspections, and good decisions on tire selection can all reduce the risk of that happening, in my experience.

Fortune favors the prepared. That's a good one; I appreciate your insight into my driving preparation.

Perhaps the roads are better where you are, or maybe you've not owned a modern high-performance sports car, many of which come standard with 35 series and lower profile tires. I suppose I could have made a "good decision on tire selection" and skipped that ownership experience but it doesn't seem worth the sacrifice.

Anyway, the point of a spare on a trailer is that people often tow in environments and to distant locations where tire damage is more likely, and help is hours away. All the maintenance, inspections and good decisions in the world won't provide much solace if you cut a trailer tire sidewall getting into a back country campsite. If the 50lbs of a 15" spare wheel and tire is the make or break point of your trailer's safe weight, you're too close to the limit anyway.

[richard5933]

Originally Posted by jcl

Fortune favours the prepared...

Part of being prepared, IMO, is having a spare. No matter how well maintained tires are, no matter how many precautions are taken with regard to pressure and tire selection, there are always going to be road hazards waiting to take out a tire.

If weight is an issue carry an unmounted spare. Getting a replacement tire may take a few days in remote areas, but finding a shop (or using roadside service) and getting a tire swapped out can usually be done within a few hours.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by geo

Regarding hauling bikes, you might want to check out the Fiamma Carry-Bikes rack. They have a model specifically designed for Airstreams. I had one installed on mine, and it works great. The only caveat is that it has a 75# load capacity, so you wouldn’t be able to use it to haul two e-bikes.

https://airstreamsupplycompany.com/p...kes-by-fiamma/

I have a reservation for the Tesla Cybertruck (tri-motor version), which is purported to have a 3500# loading and 14,000# towing capacity. That will allow me to upgrade to a larger Airstream than my 23’ International.

FWIW, Airstream is also working on an eStream concept trailer. It is much more aerodynamic, has full rooftop solar, and is self-propelled to extend the range of the towing vehicle. At only 22’, it’s a bit small for my taste, but I like the direction of thinking with this design.

I don't think the Fiamma Carry-Bikes rack is compatible with the rear hatch trailer the OP is planning on. After all it gets mounted to the bumper and rear of trailer.

[Slimpockets]

Why not go for a basecamp 20? It would be a good match for the TV.

[DrivingDan]

Regarding tires I think it was unnecessary to remove that. A cover would have been simple and more then sufficient I think.

Originally Posted by ron barrow

The mileage with a EV Ford 1500 towing a 6000 pound trailer was about 80 miles until battery needing recharge

Yeah I wish those TFL guys weren’t so sensationalistic. They did ‘the worlds toughest towing test’ (their words) and the Lightning isn’t a great EV. ICE retread and shortest range in its class, using the Ford Focus EV platform which is the worst in the business. They’ve been ignoring EV’s until now.

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Please keep us posted. Will be interesting to know which EVTV and which model AS you choose... I agree the limiting factors likely will be charging challenges along the way, "payload" and of course, how much cost/time you want to sink into this project.

Mentioned earlier it’s the Flying Cloud 27 (maybe 25) and the Silverado. Charging infrastructure won’t be any particular issue, especially when running scenarios against the NVIE funding. The biggest time/money suck is ironically the Airstream

Originally Posted by Slimpockets

Why not go for a basecamp 20? It would be a good match for the TV.

Don’t care for it personally, too sporty minded. My wife’s an artist and I’ve resurrected my composing career so we’re mainly doing cultural events and such, first trip is to NM to visit O’Keeffe’s haunts.

I mapped this trip in detail using EV apps. Plenty of charging along the way, none of the EV apps do towing yet but my hand calculations show a good trip.

Ideally I’d like to throw my 7kWh Honda generator in the bed for a charging backup, but its quite heavy.

Originally Posted by Wazbro

I don't think the Fiamma Carry-Bikes rack is compatible with the rear hatch trailer the OP is planning on.

Correct. I’ve got a certificate in machining from the job (side hobby shop thing), I’ve always loved aluminum, how it looks and machines, the Airstream is such a beautiful steampunk/dieselpunk atomic age design I’d hate to put a bike rack on the back.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

Regarding tires I think it was unnecessary to remove that. A cover would have been simple and more then sufficient I think.



Yeah I wish those TFL guys weren’t so sensationalistic. They did ‘the worlds toughest towing test’ (their words) and the Lightning isn’t a great EV. ICE retread and shortest range in its class, using the Ford Focus EV platform which is the worst in the business. They’ve been ignoring EV’s until now.



Mentioned earlier it’s the Flying Cloud 27 (maybe 25) and the Silverado. Charging infrastructure won’t be any particular issue, especially when running scenarios against the NVIE funding. The biggest time/money suck is ironically the Airstream



Don’t care for it personally, too sporty minded. My wife’s an artist and I’ve resurrected my composing career so we’re mainly doing cultural events and such, first trip is to NM to visit O’Keeffe’s haunts.

I mapped this trip in detail using EV apps. Plenty of charging along the way, none of the EV apps do towing yet but my hand calculations show a good trip.

Ideally I’d like to throw my 7kWh Honda generator in the bed for a charging backup, but its quite heavy.



Correct. I’ve got a certificate in machining from the job (side hobby shop thing), I’ve always loved aluminum, how it looks and machines, the Airstream is such a beautiful steampunk/dieselpunk atomic age design I’d hate to put a bike rack on the back.

Hey, we have seen folks here try it all here on the Forum. The 25' may actually be heavier tongue weight than the 27'; you won't know till you get "yours" and weigh it. I had 3 different model 25's; all were different by as much as 50 lbs in tongue weight. Specs from AS are not accurate at all on the tongue weights. As far as your EVTV, be interesting to see what you end up with (Silverado?) and actual distance when towing...think we all are interested in seeing this. Please keep us informed. Many folks here now, that are towing with EV's that have been modified, so you likely can gain some more data in this post if you ask the right questions... Then there are those posting here who don't even own an AS, yet have lots of "advice" for you also!

Good luck and keep us posted!

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I had 3 different model 25's; all were different by as much as 50 lbs in tongue weight.

Good point, it will vary very much by options. Looks like they’re just doing a 10% calculation of the final curb weight. I’ll definitely be updating the forum on this adventure, but it will be watching paint dry for the next few years

I was thinking that one way of possibly saving carrying weight is with the ProPride hitch. Tongue weight is on the ball, most hitches are all carried by the TV, but with the ProPride the majority of the total weight (200 lbs!) is carried on the trailer, with only the ‘stabber’ in the hitch receiver, if that is say 20-30 lbs that will be a savings. I’m not sure of what, having a hard time finding what the weight of the Blue Ox is (100 lbs?).

So adding 170ish pounds to the tongue will require more weight on the back - how difficult is it to get the balance right for the correct tongue weight?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

Good point, it will vary very much by options. Looks like they’re just doing a 10% calculation of the final curb weight. I’ll definitely be updating the forum on this adventure, but it will be watching paint dry for the next few years

I was thinking that one way of possibly saving carrying weight is with the ProPride hitch. Tongue weight is on the ball, most hitches are all carried by the TV, but with the ProPride the majority of the total weight (200 lbs!) is carried on the trailer, with only the ‘stabber’ in the hitch receiver, if that is say 20-30 lbs that will be a savings. I’m not sure of what, having a hard time finding what the weight of the Blue Ox is (100 lbs?).

So adding 170ish pounds to the tongue will require more weight on the back - how difficult is it to get the balance right for the correct tongue weight?

You don't want to be adding weight to the back to balance the front, as you are increasing the rotational inertia. What you want to do is move more weight closer to the trailer axle location.

Lots of debate here on whether the WD equipment is part of the truck or part of the trailer. One point is that the 3P hitches have a longer lever arm (by virtue of extending the A frame), so that works to reduce tongue weight, slightly reducing the effect of the heavier WD equipment itself.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by jcl

Lots of debate here on whether the WD equipment is part of the truck or part of the trailer. One point is that the 3P hitches have a longer lever arm (by virtue of extending the A frame), so that works to reduce tongue weight, slightly reducing the effect of the heavier WD equipment itself.

Piqued my interest so I just whiteboarded a free body diagram (ex physicist FWIW). Yeah looks like the tongue weight is the same in either case, by going from a single pivot (non WD) to effectively a straight bar (simplification of the WD) all you do is move the force vector forward. The actual weight (magnitude of the vector) is exactly the same. What might confused people is if they looked it as a pivoted weight (just resting on the truck end) but it’s not, just simplify it to a rigid bar welded between the two frames and it’ll make sense. The static transmits through the touch point, so in this case would be the hitch sting - everything behind the sting is added weight to the truck. The ProPride makes this easy actually since the design puts the WD bars on the trailer side, not stinger side.

Thats my story and I’m sticking to it.

[JJTX]

Electric vehicles cant tow a heavy load more than 100-200 miles, period. It's not a viable option unless your staying under 100 miles from your 220 charger.

[Kawboy01]

My 2 cents, you will be challenged with the 1300 load capacity. I think you will find that the published tongue weight is light and with an unloaded trailer.. ours loaded for travel is a bit over 1100 lbs. Trying to lighten the tongue weight is a recipe for some serious sway. You need the weight towards the front 10 to 15% of tongue weight minimum. Good luck with the new GMC EV.

[GettinAway]

Just my opinion, but I would exceed the payload number by a few hundred pounds before I’d try and reduce tongue weight by putting weight in the back of the trailer. Rear weight increases possible sway (as has already been mentioned) exceeding the payload number causes what? Some extra wear and tear on the TV. I certainly would not travel without a spare to meet a payload number. If you increase the load carrying capacity of the TV tires, you’ll likely decrease your range. At least that’s what I found with my ICE TV.
Sounds like you have most everything else worked out. Good luck.

[CWSWine]

I can see two possible reason for the 1300 pound payload.

1. The Chevy EV that coming out doesn't have a truck frame it more like a car uni body construction. If that good or bad? I don't know.

2. The GVWR is 10,000 so that means the truck will weight in around 8700 pounds. Trying to keep under10,000 due to registration in some states.

I did a search on how the manufactures determine miles per charge and on the same machine inside a building that they use for EPA ICE milage per gallon ratings. I would treat the miles per charge the same as I would the mile per gallon on the window sticker.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I can see two possible reason for the 1300 pound payload.

1. The Chevy EV that coming out doesn't have a truck frame it more like a car uni body construction. If that good or bad? I don't know.

2. The GVWR is 10,000 so that means the truck will weight in around 8700 pounds. Trying to keep under10,000 due to registration in some states.

I did a search on how the manufactures determine miles per charge and on the same machine inside a building that they use for EPA ICE milage per gallon ratings. I would treat the miles per charge the same as I would the mile per gallon on the window sticker.

So your saying, just ignore it?! Not sure any of us ever got the mileage advertised on an ICE vehicle MPG advertisment. None of the EV "tests" I have followed where a load or incline (mountain) are included, got anywhere near the "advertised" distance touted for said vehicle...mind you I said with a load or going up an incline.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

So your saying, just ignore it?! Not sure any of us ever got the mileage advertised on an ICE vehicle MPG advertisment. None of the EV "tests" I have followed where a load or incline (mountain) are included, got anywhere near the "advertised" distance touted for said vehicle...mind you I said with a load or going up an incline.

This is what I said " I would treat the miles per charge the same as I would the mile per gallon on the window sticker." I never said ignore it.

You need to follow some other poster because there lot of people doing EV range testing in real world driving without a load or going up an incline.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I can see two possible reason for the 1300 pound payload.

1. The Chevy EV that coming out doesn't have a truck frame it more like a car uni body construction. If that good or bad? I don't know.

2. The GVWR is 10,000 so that means the truck will weight in around 8700 pounds. Trying to keep under10,000 due to registration in some states.

The frame is being called Unibody by people but according to the chief engineer it’s something new. Looking at the CAD and knowing the public info about Ultium (which makes the traction pack structural) I think what they’ve done is updated trucks for the 21st century. The Body on Frame architecture made sense 100 years ago, but now with the advancements in engineering and materials, just in the past decade or two the number of steels available is bewildering. Long story short, I don’t think we can make simple statements, I believe what they’ve done is a mix between body on frame and unibody that carries much of the load on the bottom structure, but also spreads it out in the body.

Anyhow something doesn’t seem to add up - the Hummer EV weighs 1k lbs more yet is rated for almost 1500lbs carrying capacity. The Silverado weighs less, tows more and carries less. Yet - they’re going to offer a 20k towing package on the WT - what gives? Clearly from the Hummer we’re not hitting some class weight rating issue. It seems like with a beefed suspension the Silverado could carry another 500 lbs. Regarding stability, with these large underbody packs I wouldn’t think that’s a problem.

I hope they’re just being cautious and under rating the carrying capacity since they don’t have the final builds in, and we’ll see better numbers in Springtime when its released.

[jcl]

I think that with the Hummer they just don't have a concern with their target customers shying away due to the vehicle being classed as a heavier duty truck (GVWR over 10,000, Class 3 truck), which brings with it the potential of higher registration and licensing costs.

With the Silverado they likely have a greater motivation to keep it in the light duty classes

[jcl]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

So your saying, just ignore it?! Not sure any of us ever got the mileage advertised on an ICE vehicle MPG advertisement. None of the EV "tests" I have followed where a load or incline (mountain) are included, got anywhere near the "advertised" distance touted for said vehicle...mind you I said with a load or going up an incline.

I have never achieved the mpg listed on an ICE vehicle window sticker, but I don't expect to given how those tests are run. They aren't designed to be realistic, just to be comparable to other vehicles.

OTOH, I achieved the range the manufacturer quoted for our EV when we purchased it, and several months later got an over the air update (for free) with additional range. This was not the towing range, but then the ICE vehicles don't quote towing mileage either.

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by JJTX

<incorrect stuff> … It's not a viable option unless your staying under 100 miles from your 220 charger.

The great state of Texas seems to think otherwise, and is getting even more money than California to add to its already extensive EVSE deployment.