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Old 08-06-2018, 11:55 AM   #21
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Great info, thanks slowmover!



That answers the most basic question I started with which was "does the trailer provide 100% of it's own braking power?" Yes and if working right, even more than 100%.
You’re welcome.

It is supposed to provide all of its own braking. Condition, adjustment, axle alignment and bearing preset all matter.

Then, correct hitch rigging. 20-30% of TW to TT axles to look for.

Disc brakes (antilock) keep it from needing a prayer to accompany application.

I can see where you’re headed. And, yes, where the rig has some “balance” (the load similar on any given tire of the combined rig), the potential is higher for better overall braking. Won’t really work out that way (deceleration dynamics), but it’s a start.


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Old 08-06-2018, 03:43 PM   #22
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As I've mentioned in another thread, technology does not cure 'stupid'. Fancy hitches, upgraded tires, trailer disc brake systems, active trailer anti-skid systems, and the like should be thought of as safety and handling enhancements, not an invitation to drive as fast as possible...

Many accidents, including ones leading to destructive trailer roll-overs initiated by uncontrolled sway incidents, can be attributed to "speed too great for conditions".

There is no real need to tow any trailer at speeds above the posted truck, trailer, and towing speed limit. In California, its set at 55 MPH. I've lost count of the number of rigs going by me at way over that limit, and I usually am glad to see them go past me safely--so I don't get caught up in the aftermath.

Yeah, its good to have your setup such that the tires, hitch, brakes, and tow vehicle can support moving out at greater speeds--Texas is one example of a place that does not place reduced speed limits on towed vehicles, IIRC. But why push it?

Being ABLE to tow at 65+ miles per hour does not mean you NEED to tow at those speeds. Slow down, relax, and enjoy the scenery at a much slower pace. Doing that improves your chances of surviving the experience without breaking equipment, causing injuries, or losing lives.
Best advice I have read here in months
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:37 AM   #23
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When driving 55 on an interstate where the speed limit is between 70 and 80, you might have a different kind of problem, like getting rear ended.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:09 AM   #24
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I know I would no longer drive a car with 4 or even 2 drum brakes. I know the wiring to the trailer can have a fault. I know I have not been able to optimise my controller for all conditions. I know that electric brakes are not even legal for carrying passengers. I know I do not want my trailer to lock up when I touch the brakes on a wet downhill curve.
I see nothing to makee me comfortable with the idea that the trailer will stop itself. I have seen signs that said "grades up to 10 % for the next 26 miles". I have had to stop at the bottom of some of those grades.
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:22 AM   #25
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When driving 55 on an interstate where the speed limit is between 70 and 80, you might have a different kind of problem, like getting rear ended.
The top POSTED US speed limit is typically 70 MPH. I'm well aware that the traffic speed is typically way above that, especially around were I commute daily in California. (GPS often points out that I'm moving at 72+ MPH true speed in the #2 lane on cruise control and I'm still being passed occasionally) The Truck/vehicle being towed posted speed limit on the exact same freeway is 55 MPH right here in California. So the law-abiding types are in the far right lane, following the trucks which are doing typically 60 MPH unless the Highway Patrol is in the area.

I'm NOT advocating being a traffic hazard. What I'm suggesting is that it is more prudent to travel on highways and freeways at a reasonable, safe-for-conditions speed. What bugs me most is the vehicle that is going way under the traffic speed in the #1 lane (far left) and causing congestion and swerving.

If I'm moving at less than traffic speeds, I keep an eye on traffic behind me and get the heck outta the way of the faster vehicles. With the AS in tow, I'm rarely in the #1 (farthest left) lane. If freeway/large highway is moving at faster than reasonable speed--I'm going to pick an alternate, more sane route when towing. I like lots of space around me to maneuver in, and keep running lights on in daylight to be more conspicuous to passing traffic, besides the fact that its a good driving habit anyway..

Besides, higher speed means burning a LOT more gas to sustain that speed, rougher ride, and a busier driver workload. I'll admit to getting up to the speed limit in Texas and other places, but never over--it just does not make sense when towing 45 feet of rig and grossing over 9,000 pounds total with a light pickup truck. As I've often pointed out, I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid...I'd rather get to where I'm going without having a bad day.
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:39 PM   #26
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When driving 55 on an interstate where the speed limit is between 70 and 80, you might have a different kind of problem, like getting rear ended.
No, absolutely not! The speed limit for towing may be 55 mph, when the solo speed limit is much higher. That is the law and signage is in place.

Additionally, there is no justification to travel faster than the speed at which your rig is stable. And if your speed falls below 40 mph, get those flashers flashing.

Also, if you can not smartly pass another vehicle, slow down and follow. Do not block the fast lane for any more time than is absolutely necessary.



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Old 08-08-2018, 05:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
The top POSTED US speed limit is typically 70 MPH. I'm well aware that the traffic speed is typically way above that, especially around were I commute daily in California. (GPS often points out that I'm moving at 72+ MPH true speed in the #2 lane on cruise control and I'm still being passed occasionally) The Truck/vehicle being towed posted speed limit on the exact same freeway is 55 MPH right here in California. So the law-abiding types are in the far right lane, following the trucks which are doing typically 60 MPH unless the Highway Patrol is in the area.
~~
There are many places in the US with higher posted speeds than 70 mph. Texas has lots of 75 mph and some 80 mph stretches. There's even one 85 mph stretch on a tollway in central Texas. Texas doesn't mandate a lower speed limit for towing. That said, I don't tow my Airstream at 80 but neither do I imagine it would be a relaxing experience to tow it 55 on the interstate. I generally hang out to the right around 65-68 mph under those conditions.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:41 PM   #28
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So will the trailer brakes stop the trailer from 80 mph or do the TV brakes need to pick up part of the trailer stopping?
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:52 PM   #29
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I am always towing 60 mph (which is likely 56-57) on cruise control. I am usually on the second lane from right (if there are more then two lanes), because there are tons of morons who don't know how to merge. I don't see any problem with towing 15-20 mph slower than the traffic.

I find it strange to feel obliged to keep up with the traffic.

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There are many places in the US with higher posted speeds than 70 mph. Texas has lots of 75 mph and some 80 mph stretches. There's even one 85 mph stretch on a tollway in central Texas. Texas doesn't mandate a lower speed limit for towing. That said, I don't tow my Airstream at 80 but neither do I imagine it would be a relaxing experience to tow it 55 on the interstate. I generally hang out to the right around 65-68 mph under those conditions.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:01 PM   #30
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Trailer Brake Stopping Power as Percentage of Weight

Just a hard stop on the TV alone takes a lot of distance. With the trailer, I’d bet even longer. No fun in an emergency either way. And yeah, 65-68 max when towing, assuming decent weather and dry pavement if the limit is that high or higher.
Our rig is very stable up to 85, but when I noted the speed, I backed off gently. It eats a lot of gas at that speed, imho.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:35 PM   #31
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I agree, I will rarely go above 60 mph... at this speed you can react and also brake from others on the road intent on cutting you upon, brake checking you etc.
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:56 AM   #32
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So will the trailer brakes stop the trailer from 80 mph or do the TV brakes need to pick up part of the trailer stopping?

Assuming you have drum brakes on the trailer and you were going 80 mph (or any speed) and slide the "full on" lever on the brake controller you will slow down - very slowly and gradual.

Stopping a trailer is always a combination of both the TV and trailer brakes. Drum brakes seem to be good at slowing down the trailer but not hard, fast stops in my experience. No matter how good of shape the drum brakes are on a trailer they will always be mediocre at best and I have always been anal about keeping the brake shoes properly and equally adjusted. The only time i have ever seen drum brakes on a trailer strong enough to lock up a wheel has been on an empty utility trailer.
It is always going to takes more distance to stop both a TV and trailer no matter if the TV is big or small. Do your best to keep some distance between you and the next vehicle or as the situation dictates.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:35 AM   #33
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Applied amps= lock-up.

If I turn the TruControl up to max the AS brakes will lock.

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Old 08-09-2018, 07:15 PM   #34
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I guess the only way to tell would be to do a stopping test from speed for the rig and then again with just the TV. Not about to do that. But my experience with hard stops over the last 10 years with this rig indicates that my trailer does not nearly “stop itself” when set the way I run it. I do have it set to “ lead” a little so on a slow, easy stop the trailer does do a larger share than the truck. But in a hard stop from speed the trailer “pushes” a lot.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:32 PM   #35
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The problem with California towing speed being set at 55 is when you are on a two lane road, not a multi-lane freeway. When driving at 55 and the limit for all other traffic is 65+, it creates some dangerous passing situations when people want to get around you. I don't need a 3-way head on accident, so I will drive at 65 when everyone else is. You Californians do what you want.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:50 PM   #36
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Same applies to towing 65+...this creates some dangerous situations...

Don't get me wrong, I generally don't care how fast other people are driving. However, this is an objective fact that towing 65+ creates more risks than towing 55.

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(...) When driving at 55 and the limit for all other traffic is 65+, it creates some dangerous passing situations when people want to get around you.(...)
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:33 AM   #37
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Regardless of what they start out as, most towing threads end up turning into one of two things; A Propride vs. Everything Else "discussion", or truck vs. car "discussion". In the truck vs. car discussions braking performance is routinely brought up as an advantage of one over the other. Truck enthusiasts argue trucks are heavier, have larger brakes and more stopping power, while the car crowd cites more stability and better handling under braking.

All these discussion got me wondering, what percentage of an AS trailer's weight are the trailers brakes capable of stopping when you need to stop as fast as you can?

Of course there are loads of variables including, the specific model trailer, what brakes, are the brakes adjusted correctly, what payload, how fast can the TV brake, etc. So, the question and answers are of course going to be somewhat vague.

So is the OEM braking system in an AS designed to provide 100% of it's own braking power, or does is depend on the TV for a percentage of it? If so, what percentage do you think it is? If you have customized your brakes to disc, what percentage do you think you get?

Wild ass guesses are perfectly welcome.
My stopping distance doesn’t increase much with the trailer on. I would guess that 20% of the stopping effort for the trailer comes from the truck based on the slight increase in distance. I increase following distance accordingly when towing. Following too close can result in unnecessary braking which will heat up and fade drum brakes.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:40 AM   #38
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Same applies to towing 65+...this creates some dangerous situations...

Don't get me wrong, I generally don't care how fast other people are driving. However, this is an objective fact that towing 65+ creates more risks than towing 55.
Go with the flow (within reason of course). Doing 55 across Michigan, Indiana, or Ohio would not be very enjoyable. If I can’t get something up to at least 62 (like an antique car) I take a secondary road. My main reason for getting an F350 was to have enough power to keep up with traffic and enough weight to not get blown around when doing a reasonable speed.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:23 AM   #39
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I guess the only way to tell would be to do a stopping test from speed for the rig and then again with just the TV. Not about to do that. But my experience with hard stops over the last 10 years with this rig indicates that my trailer does not nearly “stop itself” when set the way I run it. I do have it set to “ lead” a little so on a slow, easy stop the trailer does do a larger share than the truck. But in a hard stop from speed the trailer “pushes” a lot.
I've found the best way is to test is from a dead stop...max gain and pull forward.
I doo doo a 'panic' once in a while at a stadium lot near us just to get a baseline gain setting. The TruControl has an electronic gyro that will 'lead' the brake application at all gain settings. I can set it at the beginning of the trip for load and let it do the rest for changing conditions.

We use 'sweet spot' speed based on RPM...😍1800/2000=58/60mph, tow/haul in hilly terrain.



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Old 08-16-2018, 09:45 AM   #40
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When driving 55 on an interstate where the speed limit is between 70 and 80, you might have a different kind of problem, like getting rear ended.
Give us an example. Rural Interstate.

45 or 50-mph is the lower legal limit.
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