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Old 10-25-2016, 06:48 AM   #1
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Towing with SUV vs. Truck in terms of payload

Hello,

We are considering 23' Flying Cloud and are confused about TV. There are a few large SUVs that can tow 23FC, but it seems payload becomes a limiting factor.

For example, Jeep Grand Cherokee with V8 engine has enough towing capacity, but according to data from Jeep, max payload is 1,350lbs.

http://www.jeep.com/en/jeep-capabili...dCherokee3Tab*

While this would work if there are only a couple of people in the vehicle. But what if we want to take our extended family members with us on a short trip?

Part of the reason that we even considered 23FC is that it can accommodate 6 people (on a short trip). But with tongue weight being 779 lbs, there is no way 6 people can ride the vehicle even though JGC has enough seats.

What do people who have large family (say 5~6) do? Do they have a larger truck? It seems Ford F150 has a much higher payload capacity. Is a truck like that the only way to take 5~6 people?

Thanks in advance,

Atsushi
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:08 AM   #2
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Take a look at the Chevy 2500 3/4 ton Suburban. They may even be offering a diesel again for 2017. Should have plenty of payload for you.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:43 AM   #3
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Do they still make a 2500? If so it would be a great tv.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:08 AM   #4
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If you want to carry six people and an AS, you need a bigger truck. Yes.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:11 AM   #5
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Unfortunately at least right now there is no 2500 Suburban. I had heard that they would do a fleet order/commercial only but not even sure that the rumor is true.

With the release of the new diesel in the Colorado/Canyon that engine would be a natural for the Suburban/Yukon.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi View Post
Hello,

We are considering 23' Flying Cloud and are confused about TV. There are a few large SUVs that can tow 23FC, but it seems payload becomes a limiting factor.

For example, Jeep Grand Cherokee with V8 engine has enough towing capacity, but according to data from Jeep, max payload is 1,350lbs.

http://www.jeep.com/en/jeep-capabili...dCherokee3Tab*

While this would work if there are only a couple of people in the vehicle. But what if we want to take our extended family members with us on a short trip?

Part of the reason that we even considered 23FC is that it can accommodate 6 people (on a short trip). But with tongue weight being 779 lbs, there is no way 6 people can ride the vehicle even though JGC has enough seats.

What do people who have large family (say 5~6) do? Do they have a larger truck? It seems Ford F150 has a much higher payload capacity. Is a truck like that the only way to take 5~6 people?

Thanks in advance,

Atsushi
The JGC is too small for 6 people, with or without a trailer, unless you really like each other. It would be a miserable trip. Plenty of horsepower but you would be overweight according to specs. A half ton pickup with 1400 lb payload would also be technically marginal as well.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:29 AM   #7
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I have a family of 5, and gramps comes along often so sometimes it's 6. I have a 2012 Nissan Armada. My SOB trailer has a tongue weight of maybe 450lbs. So, I sometimes exceed the ~1600lb payload capacity. Amazingly, this vehicle doesn't have ass-sag, nor does it handle any differently when I have me+trailer or 6+trailer. I chalk that up to the rear independent coil suspension. I do have WD, too. I'm not suggesting you exceed the payload ratings, but I can tell you that I have done it.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:32 AM   #8
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While I'm not a big fan, the Expedition is around 1700# payload.

I think a Sequoia or Tundra might work well, although officially a Sequoia is only 1400# payload.

Lastly, there's a few threads about using vans for TV. A nice Sprinter is a great ride with lot's of room, and they have high payload ratings too; most over 2000#.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:54 AM   #9
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We have a '13 MB GL350 for our family of 4. Payload is in the 1700-1750# range.
We also have a 23D with the heavy 750# tongue weight.
Most of the time I end up moving the propane to the back of the trailer while towing. Probably not necessary but I have a little peace of mind.

Last weekend we saw a family of 6 in a Toyota Sequoia pulling at least a 27', if not a 30'. He worked for Toyota and had no reservations about capacity, payload, etc.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:03 AM   #10
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The Sequoia payload is around 1300 pounds. Maybe he and his family are real skinny? And they brought no luggage. Maybe.
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:15 AM   #11
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Do they still make a 2500? If so it would be a great tv.
Word is that they are bringing back the 2500 for 2017. Rumor is it will have a diesel engine that I think is a 5.2 liter. The reason told to me is that there is not enough room in the transmission tunnel for the Allison, so they had to put a down rated torque engine for the transmission.

My K2500 has plenty of payload with close to 2000# left after subtracting tongue weight.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:18 AM   #12
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A large extended family and all their stuff on short trips will do best going along in a second car. And bring a tent. Then you will be comfortable traveling and sleeping.

Your Jeep is a great tow vehicle for the FC23, plenty of power, braking, and easy to drive. The three components of a successful towing combination are a great tow vehicle, a great weight distribution hitch, and a great travel trailer. You got two of them nailed, don't underestimate the importance of hitch and hitch setup.

Payload is weight you load onto your tow vehicle, the published data will be a ball park number, the sticker on the door will suggest what load you should never exceed. Neither will be accurate.

Get you rig set up, get some experience with it and you will soon learn how to load it for best performance and safe towing. We have learned to load our truck and trailer so we do not exceed the truck's front and rear axle ratings (GAWR), well balanced with heavy loading in the center and light loading at the ends of each. Same with our Airstream. We use the total combined weight of truck and trailer and everything in them (GCWR) for our truck, and it handles it nicely.

The only way we know if we have a safely loaded combination is to take it to a CAT scale and weigh it. If the axle ratings and combined weight is within limits, we have learned how to load it and are good to go.
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Old 10-25-2016, 10:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn Traveler View Post
Word is that they are bringing back the 2500 for 2017. Rumor is it will have a diesel engine that I think is a 5.2 liter. The reason told to me is that there is not enough room in the transmission tunnel for the Allison, so they had to put a down rated torque engine for the transmission.

My K2500 has plenty of payload with close to 2000# left after subtracting tongue weight.
I can definitively say that there is a 3500 Suburban (HD), but it WILL NOT be for retail consumption. In addition, although it has a high GVWR, it has a very low Trailer weight rating. It is specifically designed for armored upfit, and will only be offered to Government specific applications...and perhaps foreign dignitaries.

See page 78 here:

http://www.gmfleet.com/content/dam/g...-update-v2.pdf
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:26 AM   #14
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towing with a SUV vs a Truck

I do not understand why folks want to tow a large trailer with a toy truck..with the small truck comes small brakes and tires. it just appears some on here just want to prove common sense wrong!

Towing is only one part of the equation- Stopping and handling and safety are the others

just my 2 cents

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Old 10-25-2016, 11:33 AM   #15
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The truck being discussed can tow the Airstream safely. Brakes and tires are not the issue. Payload is. If you want to load up and exceed the payload rating, that is a problem. But if you do not exceed the payload rating, there is NOTHING about those tires or brakes that makes it unsafe in ANY way.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:35 AM   #16
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23FC, TV, and 5-6 passengers??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atsushi View Post
Hello,

We are considering 23' Flying Cloud and are confused about TV. There are a few large SUVs that can tow 23FC, but it seems payload becomes a limiting factor.

For example, Jeep Grand Cherokee with V8 engine has enough towing capacity, but according to data from Jeep, max payload is 1,350lbs.

http://www.jeep.com/en/jeep-capabili...dCherokee3Tab*

While this would work if there are only a couple of people in the vehicle. But what if we want to take our extended family members with us on a short trip?

Part of the reason that we even considered 23FC is that it can accommodate 6 people (on a short trip). But with tongue weight being 779 lbs, there is no way 6 people can ride the vehicle even though JGC has enough seats.

What do people who have large family (say 5~6) do? Do they have a larger truck? It seems Ford F150 has a much higher payload capacity. Is a truck like that the only way to take 5~6 people?

Thanks in advance,

Atsushi
There are several choices for TV that could work including 1/2 trucks with bench seats, as others have mentioned. I would look at the suburban or a new van perhaps, if that is your goal to carry that many people. We went through 2 Tahoe's, several vans, and now we only have 2-4 people most of the time, we use our F150 EB SuperCrew cab....Bigger question however; where are you thinking all of those people will sleep in a 23AS?
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:48 AM   #17
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The payload numbers that auto manufacturers publish is for a basic bare bones vehicle with no options and accessories. When you add options and accessories to your vehicle, as most people do, the available payload is reduced. The available payload is stamped on the yellow sticker on the driver side door, and is usually several hundred pounds less than the published payload. You should plan based on the door sticker payload, not the published payload, or else you could be exceeding GVWR.

BTW, I have weighed both my vehicles and the yellow sticker payload number is accurate. The 1700# payload number someone mentioned for Benz GL 350 is, in all likelihood, the published payload, not the available stamped on door sticker. Our GL has a published payload of 1430#, and 1157# stamped on the door sticker. I weighed it on a CAT scale and payload is closer to 1200#. So, door sticker is relatively accurate.

I was at the NY auto show and I checked the door jam of all SUVS for payload number. I could not find an SUV that had more than 1350# of payload. Granted, those were fully loaded vehicles, and if you pick a lower trim, you would have more payload. I doubt you could find a large SUV on the dealer lot with more than 1500# of available payload, as most people cannot live without power/heated seats, moonroof, etc. If you special order, you may get a bigger payload number by avoiding all heavy options, but most people tend not to do this.

You can probably find a Sequoia or Armada with 1400# of payload. A lot depends on how much the passengers weigh. If each adult weighs 175#, and you have 4 adults, and 1 child weighing 100#, passengers would take up (175X4 + 100 = 800#), and you would still have 600# for trailer tongue weight, which should work fine with a 23' Airstream.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:57 AM   #18
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Beyond the numbers: consider what you might want to carry. Portable generators , gasoline and even ladders do not work out well inside a SUV. For us, an extended cab pickup works best. YMMV
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:07 PM   #19
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My 2013 Expedition EL 4x4 Limited, extended range tank, HD towing pack was about the heaviest configuration available!! The numbers are just under 1400lbs payload. 890lb tongue weight max and 8900lb towing max. We pull a 2015 25FCRB tongue weight about 900lbs and we use a 3P hitch.

With me, the wife, the dog and a couple of boxes we are right on the rear axle max rating (4250lbs) and the gross vehicle rating (~7500lbs). on short trips we have taken 1 extra passenger and moved boxes in to the trailer and again we are right on the max for the rear axel. We never get close to the front axel limit.

If you have a lower trim like the XLT, 2WD version I can easily see the payload reaching 1700lbs.

Great SUV. Been an amazing TV for us over the last 2 years. But I could not imagine have 6 people in the SUV never mind the trailer!!!
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:10 PM   #20
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I can tow my 30' your 23', and at least one boat along with carrying your family, my family and half our worldly possessions and still have excess capacity and room to spare. Too bad Ford stopped building the wonderful Excursion. And, by the way, I will still get between 15 and 16MPG from my trusty 7.3.
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