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Old 03-22-2016, 05:26 AM   #81
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Ram 5.7/3.92 has 48% of torque available at 70 mph. Ford 3.5L/3.55 has 72% torque at 70 mph- has to do with need or not to shift around while towing.

Do not compare any previous F-150 to a 2015 or newer model. They are totally different with 800 or so pounds less weight. As far as the engines and legit concerns. You will be hard pressed to find any modern truck engine without write-ups, especially on the Internet. I know when I shopped, I learned of issues. The ecoboost is a good engine. It has some oil build up issues on valves as all direct injections are challenged with- use synthetic. GMs with their cylinder deactivation have documented oil issues beginning around 30K. These are documented issues by the manufacturers- not opinion. Ram has them too. Pick what you like but study the specs as well.

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The F-150 is THE most popular vehicle, not just trucks, sold in America. There is a reason for this and it all boils down to personal preference. Another reason for me is that GM and Dodge still owe the Government from the bailout, but that's another story.
For me it was more than personal preference. I actually have a spreadsheet of details and found facts, like the torque at speed I shared. The bailout ? Well, yes, it does make me feel better about buying from a better managed company but not a total deal breaker. I liked the Ram looks and the front seat area a lot but when the diesel was eliminated from my options, I was less impressed. You know, the process of shopping.

1/2 ton limits 2015 (max payload configs)
payload
3300# Ford
2120# GM
1910# RAM
3/4 ton payload (competition)
RAM 2500 3970#
Silverado 2500 3760#
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:39 AM   #82
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Our 2012 (Dodge) Ram Hemi Reg Cab at 50k miles was two weeks ago allowed within $4500 of what we paid for it new, on trade-in. The dealer then certified it and priced it at $1000 less we paid for it new, and sold it in a few days.
That's excellent. I suspected resale had changed on the Dodge. I guess pretty much the big three have the same resale values..
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:40 AM   #83
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Well - The 70's were 40 years ago, things change, my Brady Bunch plaid pants aren't worth as much and time does slip by...............
Yep, I'd bet you'd look pretty funny in those plaid pants today.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:36 AM   #84
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At the end of the day you have to come up with your own list of reasons and shop based on that. A lot of good advice in this thread.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:12 AM   #85
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At the end of the day you have to come up with your own list of reasons and shop based on that. A lot of good advice in this thread.
Bold, have you gotten enough miles towing with the new beast to do an honest 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 evaluation yet? Looking forward to it.

My F150 is fine for present purposes, but when (if) I go full time I'm very likely going to buy a gas 3/4 ton, so the Ram is a contender. Wondering if you've experienced a "night and day" difference or not.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:55 AM   #86
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I have a 2012 F150, 3.5 eco-boost, crew cab, long bed, shell, 3.15 rear end (most of my travel is highway w/o trailer), with about 65K on it. Still looking for my AS, but have towed two other trailers (5000# or so dry), and a substantial load in and on the truck, from No California to No Washington (lots of mountain passes) several times and can go up any grade at any speed with no issue. Overall, I love the truck and really love the 3.5; very powerful, fast and quiet!!!
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:10 PM   #87
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Hey, I already went through a tub of popcorn while reading this thread.

We love towing our 27FB with our RAM 1500 gasser. Very comfortable, plenty of power, no problem stopping, etc.

However we'd agree that we're right on the mark with payload due to tongue weight. As a result, even though the truck could haul many more pounds behind it, we travel light so as to avoid exceeding the payload number on the truck.

Long story short, Airstream understated tongue weight, and the Ram dealer overestimated the payload capacity - or maybe didn't even know what "payload capacity" was vs. towing capacity. Anyway, we got kinda caught in the middle and now we travel lighter. Maybe less "junk in the trunk" is a good thing.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:08 PM   #88
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Bold, have you gotten enough miles towing with the new beast to do an honest 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 evaluation yet? Looking forward to it.

My F150 is fine for present purposes, but when (if) I go full time I'm very likely going to buy a gas 3/4 ton, so the Ram is a contender. Wondering if you've experienced a "night and day" difference or not.
Sorry, not to derail the thread, but no. I haven't put any towing miles on it yet. Still in the park and still in Henderson, NV awaiting some shipments on items, including new WD bars.

I'll post something up in another month I'm sure.

But to quote myself, my reasons weren't exactly payload:

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We've been fine with our 1500. And this whole time we've been within tire and axle ratings. Stability and towing haven't been an issue. The 5.7L Hemi has always performed well. But we also travel very lite. I have posted elsewhere on the forums the fact that I keep almost nothing in the bed of the truck outside of some jerry cans, our Honda generator and a ladder.

The upgrade is more about our lifestyle and what we enjoy. We used to have a heavily modified expo rig (expedition style vehicle), and we have gotten more into offroading again this year. The half ton is alright but doesn't have the chops.


(Our old expo rig)

The Powerwagon isn't a standard 3/4 ton truck. It features different axles and true lockers front and back with manual control. It provides a factory lift that is two inches higher than the standard 2500 4x4. Also, the Powerwagon comes with 17-inch wheels wrapped in 33 inch Goodyear Duratrac A/T tires from the factory. And the Powerwagon is also the only vehicle on the market that comes with a 12000lb warn winch from the factory. Also, almost forgot, it features something called hill descent mode, you just activate it and the computer will take you down any incline automatically.

The PW has the credentials offroad. Has more suspension travel than your standard 4x4 model too.

So for us it's more about what this truck is and not the need for more payload. The Powerwagon suffers there because of softer springs and D range tires over the standard E range and stiffer spring in the other 2500's.

This truck is going to serve as a base for an expo rig to allow some traveling beyond the Airstream. The 1500 allow is ok, but there is no room to start adding things like a rooftop tent, steel bumper, and carrying more gear.

Like I said elsewhere, if we wanted more payload and power I'd of bought a 2500 Cummins. This wasn't about that for us. I know a truck is a tool to some. To us it's a lifestyle. Cheers.



We just happened to pick up a Laramie version which doesn't have all the silly decals.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:19 PM   #89
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We've gone through the payload rating business and can't make much sense of it, too many variables.

Same payload rating whether a 1,000 lb load on the back of the truck or hitched to an Airstream wth the load distributed evenly across the truck's axles and a portion to the trailer axles. My experience is the handling and braking under these two different conditions is quite different; it feels very good with the Airstream.

The Airstream puts its load very low on the vehicle, bed loads are carried very high. Payload rating makes no distinction, but we know the handling and braking will be quite different. I feel much safer with the lower center-of-gravity Airstream load.

Cheryl's mother has a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma with a greater payload rating than our Ram 1500. I know which one I would rather carry the greater load in or put the hitch weight on, and its not the Tacoma.

Examples could be made all day in both directions.

On the other hand axle and tire ratings seem to be based on better science. They are listed separately. It makes sense to me with the Airstream load distributed across them, and we try not to exceed them whether hauling or towing. And when towing our Airstream I am confident the engineers have the additional loads of uneven roads (bumps), braking and accelerating, and turning maneuvers built into the numbers. Having carried the loads both ways, I don't have that confidence with all the payload carried solely in the truck bed.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:53 PM   #90
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Doug,

You're dancing all around the issue, and your deductions are correct. All the ratings are science based, but HOW you load the truck to a payload number (relative to axle ratings) is all about CoG. And CoG is a 3 dimensional location of the center of mass, relative to gravity. How inertia plays into the location of CoG is very important as well. CoG should always be considered whether it is fore and aft, vertically or side to side.

Another thing that plays into your example of the Tacoma vs. your FSPU is the physics of wheel base, and track width when the dynamics of inertia come into play.
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Old 03-22-2016, 01:56 PM   #91
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I'll post something up in another month I'm sure.

But to quote myself, my reasons weren't exactly payload:
Yea, I recall. Just wondering about the experience. Handling, comfort, towing ease, mainly. I'm thinking with the extra weight you might not notice the additional power. But stability should improve.

Will look for it in its own thread.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:03 PM   #92
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Bold, have you gotten enough miles towing with the new beast to do an honest 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 evaluation yet? Looking forward to it.

My F150 is fine for present purposes, but when (if) I go full time I'm very likely going to buy a gas 3/4 ton, so the Ram is a contender. Wondering if you've experienced a "night and day" difference or not.
That brings up another good point to consider regarding tow vehicle selection.

Full-timing brings up two opposing issues. Your tow vehicle will also be your "daily driver" (unless you make other arrangements). For that, many would probably prefer a 1/2 ton. But it also means you'll likely want to carry more stuff, creating a payload issue, that steers you towards a 3/4 ton.

After 15 years of full-timing (but with a "home base" storage unit I could visit once a year) I learned what I really needed to carry with me, and down sized from an F-250 to a Ram 1500 last year. With just two of us, we felt comfortable going with a regular cab and got our payload rating to nearly 1,700 lbs. While one has to choose what one carries, that works for us.

I would suggest that if you are choosing a tow vehicle with plans to full-time, seriously study what you want to haul around with you in your truck and what your hitch weight will be. Could the 1/2 ton work for you? Maybe? Then get as much time as possible driving around in town in a 3/4 ton with your spouse/significant other. Then decide.
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Old 03-22-2016, 02:45 PM   #93
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Doug,

You're dancing all around the issue, and your deductions are correct. All the ratings are science based, but HOW you load the truck to a payload number (relative to axle ratings) is all about CoG. And CoG is a 3 dimensional location of the center of mass, relative to gravity. How inertia plays into the location of CoG is very important as well. CoG should always be considered whether it is fore and aft, vertically or side to side.

Another thing that plays into your example of the Tacoma vs. your FSPU is the physics of wheel base, and track width when the dynamics of inertia come into play.
Actually Rich, I'm trying to get at the heart of the issue. It would be a great discussion. Several have tried, Andrew Thomson in particular, but are quickly shouted down by others for various reasons.

So I don't think the discussion will ever happen here. We'll just settle for smart talk and emotion-based argument.

I do appreciate your comments on the subject, here and at other times. Meantime we'll go on towing as we have, either on the brink of disaster or an exceptionally safe, well-balanced truck, hitch, and trailer. Depending on the opinion of the next post.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:04 PM   #94
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Actually Rich, I'm trying to get at the heart of the issue. It would be a great discussion. Several have tried, Andrew Thomson in particular, but are quickly shouted down by others for various reasons.

So I don't think the discussion will ever happen here. We'll just settle for smart talk and emotion-based argument.

I do appreciate your comments on the subject, here and at other times. Meantime we'll go on towing as we have, either on the brink of disaster or an exceptionally safe, well-balanced truck, hitch, and trailer. Depending on the opinion of the next post.
Perception to the percevier will always be the perceiver's reality.

The reality of physics always trumps the perceiver's reality. Someday it will bite the perceiver's behind....in one way or another.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:05 PM   #95
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That brings up another good point to consider regarding tow vehicle selection.

Full-timing brings up two opposing issues. Your tow vehicle will also be your "daily driver" (unless you make other arrangements). For that, many would probably prefer a 1/2 ton. But it also means you'll likely want to carry more stuff, creating a payload issue, that steers you towards a 3/4 ton.

After 15 years of full-timing (but with a "home base" storage unit I could visit once a year) I learned what I really needed to carry with me, and down sized from an F-250 to a Ram 1500 last year. With just two of us, we felt comfortable going with a regular cab and got our payload rating to nearly 1,700 lbs. While one has to choose what one carries, that works for us.

I would suggest that if you are choosing a tow vehicle with plans to full-time, seriously study what you want to haul around with you in your truck and what your hitch weight will be. Could the 1/2 ton work for you? Maybe? Then get as much time as possible driving around in town in a 3/4 ton with your spouse/significant other. Then decide.
Good post. We have traveled half-time for ten years, and find we need less equipment load than many who camp on weekends (the first three years was a VW Pop-top Camper Van, and one year towed a Suzuki Samurai behind it). We replenish food and water along the way.

This is our seventh year half-time with half-ton trucks. Based on overall use, very good experiences, we just traded for another. Properly set up for towing and carrying reasonable loads they work very well, always rock-solid on the road, plenty of power and excellent braking.

There are two other approaches to effectively increase load capacity besides a bigger truck. Carry less weight in the truck and take measures to lighten the hitch weight of the trailer. We have done both; our truck functions well for all our purposes.
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:21 PM   #96
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Perception to the percevier will always be the perceiver's reality.

The reality of physics always trumps the perceiver's reality. Someday it will bite the perceiver's behind....in one way or another.
Really Rich?

Isn't it "the reality of physics" that Andrew Thomson and many others have been trying to get the discussion to progress to? That he has been practicing successfully and writing extensively about for 40 tears? That thousands of us have subscribed to, and employed thoughtfully with great success?
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:53 PM   #97
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Really Rich?

Isn't it "the reality of physics" that Andrew Thomson and many others have been trying to get the discussion to progress to? That he has been practicing successfully and writing extensively about for 40 tears? That thousands of us have subscribed to, and employed thoughtfully with great success?
Not so much...and in the words of the great philosopher, Forest Gump, "That's all I got to say about that.."
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Old 03-22-2016, 03:58 PM   #98
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And my old Norwegian Grandpa who said "Ya, all that ends well is well".
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:56 PM   #99
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Hi, as I stated before, when I was looking for a new F-150 there was a Limited or Platinum on the show room floor that had a payload of 1,065 lbs. My Safari has a tongue weight of 900 lbs so that would not even leave enough payload for me as the driver yet alone anyone or anything else. In my searches I have come up with a 2016 Ram Laramie crew cab Ecodiesel with 3:92 gears having 1,000 to 1,100 lbs payload. This would not work for me, with the trailer that I own.


My F-150 has a payload of 1,745 lbs. After my 900 lb tongue weight is deducted I have 845 lbs for two people, one little dog, and stuff in the bed of my truck.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:50 PM   #100
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Hi, as I stated before, when I was looking for a new F-150 there was a Limited or Platinum on the show room floor that had a payload of 1,065 lbs. My Safari has a tongue weight of 900 lbs so that would not even leave enough payload for me as the driver yet alone anyone or anything else. In my searches I have come up with a 2016 Ram Laramie crew cab Ecodiesel with 3:92 gears having 1,000 to 1,100 lbs payload. This would not work for me, with the trailer that I own.


My F-150 has a payload of 1,745 lbs. After my 900 lb tongue weight is deducted I have 845 lbs for two people, one little dog, and stuff in the bed of my truck.
Should that be one person? I thought Ford used to give you credit for the driver (and a full tank of gas) when they listed payload. Have they changed?
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