Towing capability basics.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by DPRoberts

. . However, of the people who switch from one vehicle to the other, most seem to go heavier. The most satisfied posters on this forum - at least from what I've read - are the people who have gone up to the 3/4 ton truck and have been truly amazed at how much better their towing experience has been. I know it happens the other way around - people do trade their giant trucks for smaller vehicles - but the majority of 3/4 ton truck buyers seem to be the happiest with their purchases. It's hard to argue with that.

I use a three-quarter ton. Bought for business use originally.

Anyone who believes it better has one or more things happening:

1) Carrying more junk than they'll ever use; and,

2) Are "reassured" by numb steering and poor overall feedback that all is well.

In this line, do not make the mistake that "happiest" is to be equated with "best", as it assuredly is not.

Understand that a pickup is always a safety compromise in favor of carrying more junk.

Were I to see pickups with a good lash-up in my 2500-3000/mile average week, I might relent. In fact it's the least likely to be basically hitched well. Or at all.

Was northbound on IH75 a few days back, between Knoxville and the Kentucky line. Saw an SUV hauling a new AS coming up in the left lane. Grand Aero mirrors, extra short hitch and, surprise, surprise, an Ontario plate on the trailer.

Best setup I've seen in years BASED on the way the combo handled.

NEVER seen a pickup do as well (though I suspect JMorgan has his nailed pretty tight).

It would have been (and is) foolhardy to run as hard as the driver of this combo did were he using a pickup.

Were it Thomson himself I wouldn't have been surprised. Driver knew what he was doing (with a couple of caveats).

Somehow my grandparents travelled most of Canada, the US and Mexico pulling their their heavier than an Airstream Streamline the mid and late 1960s. Left the trunk empty except for a few folding chairs. Used a Dual Cam once that was available.

How on earth did they travel so well for months at a time? Apparently, a mystery.

A truck may be the default choice. By ignorance or stupidity is what is to be understood making that entailed choice.

58-63 mph works in that event. But one also next to never sees that either. Hopefully it's 300-miles or less ( but one doubts that as well).

Better make sure road and conditions are otherwise perfect. Assumptions about "skill" and experience" are really more about today's tires and those perfect conditions.

[SteveSueMac]

Slow - I don't feel ignorant (which may mean I am) or stupid (depending on how that's measured I'm probably good there). I do tend to tow under 65 (even with the Michelins since the speed limit wasn't my reason for swapping GYMs) and 300-350 miles a day is in fact my limit and I drive defensively despite the horrific level of disrespect people tend to show one another on the roads.

I love the Duramax for towing my 27FB with a ProPride. The rig is solid as a rock. I'm nowhere near your level of skills as a professional driver, but you may be a bit heavy handed there on your assessment. Certainly that's your right - even if you're wrong 😀

Have a salubrious day everyone!

[dkottum]

There are a lot of different towing combinations that owners are very happy with.

This is our third half-ton pickup, the soft ride for us and our Airstream with plenty of load capacity for six months a year on the road exactly what we were looking for. The fuel economy is remarkable and the ProPride hitch ensures absolute stability and safety.

Early this year at Jackson Center with our Ram 1500 EcoDiesel/FC 25 we had the good fortune to meet forum members SteveSueMac with his Duramax/FC 27, and Jim Flower with his Jeep GC EcoDiesel/FC 30. Of the things we had in common, we all were very happy with our quite different tow vehicles.

Interesting, of the little group Jim Flower had the smallest tow vehicle towing the largest Airstream, and the one without a ProPride hitch. But his Jeep GC did have full independent suspension and a hitch setup by Andrew Thomson at Can-Am RV.

[PaulnGina]

I don't think I'm ignorant OR stupid (and won't accuse someone else of being either due to the tow vehicle choice they make), and we don't generally haul more stuff than we can ever use. We're relatively "light" campers from what I've seen. If we were limited to only flatlands, I might consider a smaller SUV or something like the Edge (I have always like the original Edge styling). However, to have the most flexibility and capability, I will always recommend a 3/4-ton truck for anything over 25' or so. That way, if you DO want to pack more than you could ever possibly use, you can.

[cazual6]

My recent experience on my last trip to Big Bear (so cal) made me realize that tow capacity does make a difference. My Chevy Traverse towing capacity was maxed out and it was taking a toll on that steep'ish climb (the back way).

When I replied seeing a Chrysler 300 towing a 3 axel AS, made me wonder, sure anything can tow anything, heck, you can put a hitch on a VW bug I suppose, but I can't imagine how limited you would have to be. Any incline is where a vehicle of choice comes into play. Tell me if I am missing anything here?

Ever since my trip, and seeing this ad's about DiamondBack with ATV's on the back, made me want to get a truck with higher towing capacity upwards of 10k and up.

After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by cazual6

.........

"After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?"

Missing?......extensive mod's to the TV & receiver platform, (that do very little/nothing for payload).

TETO.

“If your happy with what your using…it’s adequate.
If other people are un-happy….it’s not”
RLC

Bob

[PaulnGina]

You are not missing a thing, IMHO. Your brain is reacting exactly as it should when it's telling you "that's not a good idea".

I could modify my garden tractor to get my Avion 34W moving down the road....



Rear end and frame could be modified to support the load. We'd get going down the road in some fashion, but the pickle would be braking and any "hard" towing you might encounter. Engine/transmission combination would be WAYYYYY over-taxed, and the braking system is definitely not up to the task...... I don't care HOW good the trailer brakes might be. My garden tractor excels at what it was designed to do.

I know this is an extreme, ridiculous example, but it makes as much sense as some of the combinations I've seen presented.

Originally Posted by cazual6

My recent experience on my last trip to Big Bear (so cal) made me realize that tow capacity does make a difference. My Chevy Traverse towing capacity was maxed out and it was taking a toll on that steep'ish climb (the back way).

When I replied seeing a Chrysler 300 towing a 3 axel AS, made me wonder, sure anything can tow anything, heck, you can put a hitch on a VW bug I suppose, but I can't imagine how limited you would have to be. Any incline is where a vehicle of choice comes into play. Tell me if I am missing anything here?

Ever since my trip, and seeing this ad's about DiamondBack with ATV's on the back, made me want to get a truck with higher towing capacity upwards of 10k and up.

After reading the replies here, what am I missing when people are towing these heavy AS with something that can not possibly do it according to specs?

[rostam]

I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).

If you need sports car handling characteristics to frequently do sudden lane changes to avoid accidents, you should change your driving habits, not your TV.

I've seen videos of a V10 Touareg pulling a 747, or a Tundra pulling a space shuttle. I understand those do not mean they can tow those across the country, in public roads, at high way speed

[Thiss]

Originally Posted by rostam

I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).

If you need sports car handling characteristics to frequently do sudden lane changes to avoid accidents, you should change your driving habits, not your TV.

Well put!

Knowing to look far enough ahead, understanding how to enter and exit a corner, and keeping proper stopping distance are all important.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by rostam

I still cannot understand how reinforcing the receiver and professional setup of WDH could 1) improve engine torque/HP for inclines, 2) improves braking capacity for declines, 3) beef up transmission for towing, 4) increase cooling capacity, and 5) increase the weight of TV (a major factor in stability is the relative weight of TV and trailer).

For your items 1 to 4, it would be silly to expect such things. But your error is in thinking that those factors are somehow limiting for a specific vehicle. They may not be. Consider a heavy pickup truck with a 10,000 lb tow rating. Install a 3500 lb receiver on it. Your combination is now rated to tow 3500 lbs. But what about your transmission cooler, your engine torque, your large brakes? Irrelevant to the 3500 lb rating. Now consider that the 3.5 Ecoboost can tow 10,000 lbs in many trucks. Install that same power train in a sedan with 1000 lbs less curb weight. Why would engine power then be a tow limitation?

As to your item 5, "road hugging weight" is a joke as much as it was when it was an advertising slogan in the 1960s. Spend the time setting up the combination. If you are relying on TV weight to compensate for improper setup, the battle is already lost.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by jcl

For your items 1 to 4, it would be silly to expect such things. But your error is in thinking that those factors are somehow limiting for a specific vehicle. They may not be. Consider a heavy pickup truck with a 10,000 lb tow rating. Install a 3500 lb receiver on it. Your combination is now rated to tow 3500 lbs. But what about your transmission cooler, your engine torque, your large brakes? Irrelevant to the 3500 lb rating. Now consider that the 3.5 Ecoboost can tow 10,000 lbs in many trucks. Install that same power train in a sedan with 1000 lbs less curb weight. Why would engine power then be a tow limitation?

As to your item 5, "road hugging weight" is a joke as much as it was when it was an advertising slogan in the 1960s. Spend the time setting up the combination. If you are relying on TV weight to compensate for improper setup, the battle is already lost.

I agree that its silly to expect items 1 to 4 for receiver reinforcement and WDH setup -- That was exactly my point. A Chrysler 300 with receiver reinforced is still a Chrysler 300 with 1000# tow rating as nothing regarding pulling/stopping power, transmission, cooling system has been addressed.

As for weight, there is a technical article regarding TV stability and one of the most important factors in stability of bumper pull rigs is the relative weight of TV and trailer. Sorry could not find the link.

I think we are getting into another cycle so I'm going to stop.

[bono]

You are not... for sure.

Originally Posted by rostam

I think we are getting into another cycle so I'm going to stop.

[dkottum]

We can only hope.

[cazual6]

Well, My FC19 is using a Chevy Traverse for a TV. I learned from Bigbear it is not enough. So I have been shopping for a TV with around 10k TC. The wife is leaning towards F150/F250. Now, the argument becomes, whose money is gonna buy it? Mine or hers? I prefer to spend my money on the 2nd Amendment, while she prefers a purses.

I believe a TV with tow as part of the design is the way to go.

[PaulnGina]

Originally Posted by cazual6

Well, My FC19 is using a Chevy Traverse for a TV. I learned from Bigbear it is not enough. So I have been shopping for a TV with around 10k TC. The wife is leaning towards F150/F250. Now, the argument becomes, whose money is gonna buy it? Mine or hers? I prefer to spend my money on the 2nd Amendment, while she prefers a purses.



I believe a TV with tow as part of the design is the way to go.

Here's my suggested answers:

F150/F250...... F250, of course
His/Hers...... 1/2 and 1/2???
More 2nd Amendment
More purses

Everyone's happy!




PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

[bono]

Trucks were not designed to tow. They were design to move cargo.

Originally Posted by cazual6

(...)

I believe a TV with tow as part of the design is the way to go.

[xrvr]

Isn't cargo moved on trailers? What is used to pull the trailers? Cars are designed to carry people, otherwise they wouldn't need to be modified to pull a trailer. Use what you want, your business.

[bono]

Semis were designed for towing. If you are using truck, SUV, minivan for towing, you are compromising different matters (payload, braking, power, handling, number of passengers on board, etc.) with each of them.

As an example, I can't stand the handling of a truck, which in my option is not safe even without a trailer behind. This a subjective opinion, so no need to start a war.

[xrvr]

We had a roofing supply trailer at about 12000 pounds towed with a dually diesel truck designed for that. Show me what else would tow thst trailer. If you can't use a truck, suv or minivan then what do you tow with? A properly set up crew cab truck with payload in the bed is the best vehicle for towing. That's my opinion.

[xrvr]

Actually some would say a semi is just a heavy duty pickup with the bed removed and a fifth wheel hitch installed. On a larger scale.