Towing

[gandttimes]

Originally Posted by m.hony

I disagree.
I disagree, homeboy!
Everyone is entitled to their opinions...
On the other hand there must be some reason why F150 is the most selling vehicle. Period.
There are 6 times as many F150's sold than Tundras.
It may be that Ford trucks have been around longer and have a loyal following.
It may go back many decades to Ford having the first V8...
Who knows? But there is some merit to the fact that Ford sells more trucks than anyone else and 3 times as many full size trucks than Nissan and Toyota combined...

You may or may not have noticed that the latest adds for Ford state that it is the largest selling "nameplate". If you want to look up the numbers GM ( Chevy and GMC, as they are the same truck) have outsold Ford 8 out of the last 15 years and GM's total numbers totalled more than Ford for those years .
All the big 3 and Toyota have their merits and their followers, but the numbers don't lie.
George

[m.hony]

Seems like there are some ads that state F150 was the most selling vehicle 30 years running- it doesn't specify which 30 years-
It don't matter-
I have a Toyota with 5 payments left and 32,000 miles- that's how we roll-
April 23, 2014- that's the day I'm lookin' for!

[switz]

I am pleased with our 2012 Dodge TV. However, the huge frontal area, as compared to my Mercedes, sure acquired a lot of grasshoppers on a recent trip. But it did deflect or destroy most of them so the trailer was not encrusted with their residue.

I selected the truck based upon a Cummins high output diesel with no urea required and the tow and axle ratings selected allowed for my future jump from a International Serenity 25FB to a 31' Classic model 30 with no need to worry about the towing capacity or real limits on what goes in the bed of the truck or tongue weight issues.

I am aware this unit will not stop on a dime when towing, but stopping distance is directly related to speed. Driving at 62 to 65 in 6th great at the maximum torque point of the engine (around 1600 to 1650 rpm) makes for a smooth running engine and driveline and the temperatures are running cooler at the turbo inlet to increase it's service life.

Many astute observations for congested driving included being a few mph slower than the crowd so they are always pulling away. If my pace is building up vehicles behind me, per Indiana law, I have to pullover when seven vehicles are backed up, I take the first opportunity to let the folks pass on a straight away so they do not create an issue trying to pass with oncoming vehicles.

The power associated with this diesel engine allows me to accelerate briskly when needed to merge onto the highway at a reasonable speed to fit into the flow of traffic.

[hshovic]

To add to the confusion: I have hauled a 25' Safari with lots of gear 70,000 miles with a gasser (3/4 ton 6.0 Chevy) with no problems. However, engine type is not so critical as load capacity.. Can it carry the load? The rated carrying capacity for a Tundra (similar to other 1/2 ton pickups) is about 1,500 lbs. That is NOT usually in the ads. This is the safe limit for the vertical load on the vehicle. My 25 foot Safari is 7200 pounds. With 400 lbs of gear in the truck, 250 lbs of passengers (the first one doesn't count in the calc), 200 lb of hitch and flaps, 150 lbs of gas, and 720 lb of trailer weight (given I load the trailer perfectly w/ 10% on the hitch, the total
is 1,720 lbs, way over the rated carrying capacity. Way over... But the advertisements say it can haul 10,000 lbs. Sure, if there is one passenger, no gear, little
gas, and a lightweight hitch. The 3/4 ton has 3,300 lbs carrying capacity. That is
more than enough and has a good margin for error.


And here is another way of looking at it: Using Gross Vehicle Weights:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...tml#post456088

Still comes out that you need a 3/4 ton truck to haul my 25 ft, and most certainly for
a 30 foot.

And here is another way of looking at it:
Andy Thompson in the latest Airstream Life has an article about towing capacities. He evaluates the total risk in using a heavy duty truck for towing, but most of the
year using it for local travel. The handling of the big truck is poorer than smaller vehicles. A smaller vehicle may be near or over its limits during the trailering times,
but most of the year it is safer. So any decision on minimizing risk should consider
how much you tow versus how much you just drive around. Good way of looking at it. Ninety percent of our truck use is towing, so that is where we put our risk management. Your experience may differ.

[switz]

Our 2500 Dodge diesel is used for towing. I have a much more fuel efficient daily driver in a Mercedes ML 320 CDI diesel plus motorcycles.

[dkottum]

We have a very fuel efficient car at home for every day use, but 6-7 months a year we are away from home with the Airstream. Most of that is daily driving without the Airstream, so we need a safe, efficient, easy daily driver. A heavy duty truck is a poor choice for us.

We use a 2012 Ram reg cab 1500 with full coil suspension and that works well. Different needs for different Airstreamers.

[kscherzi]

Maybe this diesel truck will do.

[m.hony]

Well...That is an Avion I think- that rig is shorter than a tow vehicle and traile, but longer than an Interstate-
Is that for real or is it photo-shopped?

[SteveH]

I'd like to see where he hauls his ladder.

[switz]

can turn around in a country mile

[Tater]

Pamela, I can tell you what my wife and I have decided. We have an 05 Silverado with a 5.3L gas engine which we use to pull our 30' Classic. It now has over 100,000 miles and we are going to buy a 2015 GM truck. Nothing necessarily against the other brands but we have had the best luck with the Chevrolet compared to our experience with Ford and Dodge (all gas). We keep our pickup trucks for at least ten years so the new one will be around for a while. We have decided to buy a 2015 Silverado 2500 Duramax Diesel. There are arguments for and against every manufacturer but they have made over 1.5 million Duramax diesels and they are made in partnership with Isuzu and their reliability is as good as any. We prefer the GM brand but you should get the brand you like. We plan to do more towing in mountain areas during the coming years so that was a factor in our Diesel decision. We are not ordering 4WD as we do not plan to do off road traveling. 2WD Diesels are rare and 4WD seems to be the most popular just not the way we are going. I would think if you buy the truck you like, any of the Diesel engines should be fine for the long haul. They all require the use of DEF for emission requirements and I believe they all use about the same amount. Best wishes in your decision.

[Lara Me]

I shopped all the key brands when selecting a tow vehicle.

Ford: great engine, lousy interior that didn't seem to hold up well when we looked at a few older ones for reference, inside felt like a truck. Ready for a much needed update.

GM: great transmission, engines, but dated interior and just not comfortable. The 2014 was improved, but seats were not comfy. Felt huge. Just ok.

RAM: great engine, ok transmission unless you got the Aisin option. Terrific interior with great seats, options. Wish I had a chance to wait a few months for the 2014's which replace leaf spring suspension with coils.

Toyota Tundra: dated plastic interior, lacked power to get up the passes, awful mileage around town and under a towing load. Really disappointed as I wanted this t work given the reputation.

Ended up with the Ram. So far, super impressed.


Like Seitz, I'd

[m.hony]

My "dated plastic interior"...
12 mpg towing-
12 mpg in town-
16 mpg highway-
Lack of power?
381 hp and 400 lb. ft. Of torque...

[Bbelk]

If being the best tow truck is the object then a 3/4 long bed crew cab will be hard to beat. I think the brand comparison may be a religious discussion so I won't go there. The clear downside is urban parking.

Gasoline VS Diesel - There may be some advantages to the diesel, but there can't be many. The big gasoline engines and six speed transmissions have more than enough guts. Diesel is harder to find and more expensive than gasoline which largely offsets the milage advantage.

In my opinion, the giant factors against diesel are: They are noisy, they stink, and they are messy.

I dislike:
1) being set up in a campground and having a diesel pull in next to me. Sunday mornings at the RV park sound like a truck stop. Picture yourself pulling into a national forest campground full of tents with one of those.


2) Getting stuck behind one going up a hill, especially if I am on a motorcycle. They stink! Sunday mornings at the RV park smell like a truck stop. Picture yourself pulling into a national forest campground full of tents with one of those.

3) Look around the diesel pump at the station. All that black oil around the ground is now on your feet/carpet for you to enjoy until that part of your ofactorys shuts down.

Oh well - I guess its clear I am not a diesel fan so I will list one more thing that I find irritating. For some reason, diesel drivers think they need to let those things idle from the time they start them till the time they go to bed so the noise and stink continues for way longer than is necessary.

[switz]

Have you considered that warming up a diesel engine gradually rather than putting it under full load just as soon as it starts (like most the gasoline engine starts) could be the reason gas engines can have shorter lifespans?

I towed the same cargo trailer with the same load of motorcycles behind two different vehicles on the same road over time. Going up a steep grade, the gasoline Toyota Sequoia 5.7L V8 engine was running at close to 5,000 rpm while the Duramax diesel was at 1,800 rpm. Which driveline was generating the most wear and tear?

The newer diesels with all the emissions equipment do not generate the bus fumes of old.

Diesel fuel is available near any Ford dealership and at truck stops on all major highways. I have not had any issues finding it after we got over the introduction of Ultra Low Sulphur diesel in 2007 to 2008.

My wife and I each drive a diesel Mercedes vehicle. She gets close to 40 mpg on the highway in her 2009 E320 sedan and I get 28 mpg with continuous 4WD in my 2007 ML 320. Neither vehicle has the urea additive and there is no diesel smell except when filling the tank at a station.

YMMV

[SteveH]

Yes, I resisted Diesels for a long time because I didn't like all of the above negatives, but they are better these days...not as noisy, and not as smelly.

However they do cost more to purchase, to service, and the fuel is more expensive, but the mileage is a little better. Doubt the mileage improvement is enough to offset the cost of the fuel.

Positives are you get a lot of the initial cost of the engine back when you trade, and once you tow a big trailer with a Diesel, you'll not have another gas tow vehicle again. I'd almost guarantee that.

[Lara Me]

Like switz, I tow motorbikes in the truck with lots of gear, so payload is critical. 4x4 is also important, as we live amongst lots of passes and have regular snowfall in the winter.

Torque is far more important to me than horsepower. Heading up a pass, with the trailer loaded and 800 labs of bike and gear in the back, plus 4 passengers, you want to be able to harness as much as possible. Brakes are also critical, and the engine braking capability of a diesel is important.

Diesel trucks in the past few years are quite unlike their predecessors. The smoke is gone, courtesy of urea and the EPA regs, which also impact mileage. If you see a late model truck belching smoke, the owner has modified the exhaust and egr, deleting the particulate filters in order to increase gas mileage. It's illegal, voids warranty, but is common. Newer 2013 and later trucks with urea don't benefit from deletes.

My RAM has only 375hp, but 800 lb Ft torque. For me, this is optimal power. I could not pull up the passes, passing semis and slower RV's, loaded as described, nor could I average close to 14mpg, with a gas pickup, and certainly not in a half ton truck. Those who can manage with a gasser likely do not have the same towing needs or payload as I do, so I can appreciate how a gas powered tow vehicle is the better choice for them.
't

[hshovic]

Quoting Tater:
We are not ordering 4WD as we do not plan to do off road traveling.

I agree. It is a matter of risk. We travel a lot in the shoulder seasons, and we live in a snowy area of Montana. So many is the time
I have come home to a snow storm, and 4WD was VERY helpful in pulling out
of parking lots, and stabilizing travel when we followed the snow plow lights. However, it reduces mileage and costs more. And it makes turning more difficult. However, this morning I was backing out of the driveway to answer a fire call, got stuck, and 4WD got me right out.

[cwf]

I found maneuvering in unimproved sites much easier with 4WD. Yes it was safer too.

Better to have ammo you don't need than to need and not have. The cost of one tow out will shock the average checkbook.

[kscherzi]

For fun I just spec'd a new 2014 F-250 diesel 4x4 on Fords build and price. Nicely equipped, the way I'd like it, came to 62k MSRP.

Wow!