Tow vehicle advice

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by maroth

Thanks for all the great info here. I am the other guy... I just got fed up with the emission changes (pls don't flame me for this) and increased costs on the diesels, and recently traded in my F350 6.7 for 5.3 GMC gasser ...

No flamin’ here😀. Just curious: did you have trouble with the diesel or just got tired of the increased costs?

[Jimingram55]

Upgraded our 25 ft Airstream to a 27 ft Globetrotter all while owning a 2017 Ford F150, max tow,
3.5, 1580 lbs cargo.
We noticed the trailer seemed to push the truck around more than with the prior 25 ft trailer.

Purchased a 2018 F250 diesel Lariat 4x4, used with 50k miles. 2222 lbs cargo. A round trip Florida to Colorado trip allowed us to observe the differences on the tow units.

The diesel pulls the trailer effortlessly, don't really know the trailer is back there. No push by passing semi's. Better mileage with the diesel and let's not forget the engine brake. Way better than using your brakes or transmission. It's my daily driver too. As long as I have the 27 footer, I will keep my diesel. I love it.

BTW, the bed on the diesel is a foot longer and that's a good thing too.

[Bcc75]

I posted my story earlier in this thread but I will re-emphasize here again as others have mentioned. Until you tow with both trucks, its hard to really understand how much better the 3/4 ton experience is. There are many great 1/2 tons out there. I had one. As equipped as you can get for towing. I'm sure for 23' and under they are the ideal choice. The F250 however, for my situation, and my needs, is a much better choice.

[1StreamDream]

I don't really have anything new to add, but I have direct experience in exactly this scenario. I had a 2016 F-150 (5.0L v8) when we acquired our 25' RB twin flying cloud, and thought we would be ok. I have towed before, travel trailers, utility trailers, boats, so I have a decent experience base to draw from. On our initial ride home after purchase (it was a 1300 mile trip) I had already decided that I was not comfortable with the dynamics, and I upgraded to an F-250 and got it about a month ago. My F-250 is also gas (7.3L), and has the 4.30 rear end, so as a tow vehicle it is way more capable than I need for my current trailer but I custom ordered, and got it configured for towing as its primary use case. I do wish my MPG was a little better, right now I get maybe 13 non towing and 9-10 with flatland towing. As for the economics of gas vs diesel, I don't have any experience there, but my 7.3L gas is way more than I need, there is no way I can justify "needing" a diesel and I cannot see the economics working out over the long term. Sure they get better MPG, but they also cost more to maintain, and repair, and the up front cost is substantial. No regrets about a gas engine. The F-250 is significantly more stable, and the towing experience is much more pleasant. I intend to have many long trips, and with that mission in mind I wanted peace of mind, and safety margin. F-250 rides rougher in my opinion, but I have absolutely no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat, but if I started over, I might opt for the 3.73 gear instead of the 4.30 to try and squeeze out a little more MPG.

[bstevenson]

Obviously the combined experience of this group indicates that a 3/4 ton truck should be the preferred choice for towing a 27' AS. Actually I am surprised at the level of agreement. Thanks everyone.


Bill

[Luke Grisott]

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[jcl]

Originally Posted by bstevenson

Obviously the combined experience of this group indicates that a 3/4 ton truck should be the preferred choice for towing a 27' AS. Actually I am surprised at the level of agreement. Thanks everyone.


Bill

Either will work, there are just trade offs to decide on with each choice.

A big reason for the apparent consensus is that those who don’t choose larger trucks, for a variety of reasons, tend to not post as fervently, as they are routinely accused of putting themselves, their families, and other road users at risk. Those of us who don’t adhere to that belief system sit most of theses threads out.

Good luck with your purchase.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by jcl

Either will work, there are just trade offs to decide on with each choice.

A big reason for the apparent consensus is that those who don’t choose larger trucks, for a variety of reasons, tend to not post as fervently, as they are routinely accused of putting themselves, their families, and other road users at risk. Those of us who don’t adhere to that belief system sit most of theses threads out.

Good luck with your purchase.

You mean you’ve been voted off the island? 😂

[brokeboater]

Originally Posted by jcl

accused of putting themselves, their families, and other road users at risk.

The tried and true "what about the children!!?" argument.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by brokeboater

The tried and true "what about the children!!?" argument.

Yes. That argument sometimes involves a bus loaded with orphans.

Funny and true story that comes back to me whenever I see that phrase. I was working in an independent garage back in university days. I was one of the operators of the Ford F series tow truck. We were in a rural area, and were the only shop. It was even an island (but I don't recall anyone ever being voted off it).

There was a summer camp for underprivileged children. They moved the campers to and from the ferry dock to the camp on an old school bus. It was a Ford, B series, a B500 IIRC. Not a long one, but still heavier than what should have ever been moved with our tow truck. The bus broke down regularly. On one service call, it needed a tow to the shop. We were cautious, it being significantly over the weight we should have been towing. Getting a heavy wrecker up to the island would have been cost prohibitive for the camp.

The camp director was distraught. "But you have to tow it in" he said, "what about the children". So we towed a B500, with a standard tow truck, very slowly, with lots of lights. The descent down the mountain from the camp was memorable, the road being gravel.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

You mean you’ve been voted off the island? 😂

No, I just skipped the debate

Saving up my energy for threads where the OP hasn't already decided to purchase a pickup.

[BayouBiker]

When looking for a consensus of what works best, the situations that don't work provide the more useful information. You rarely (almost never actually) hear of folks with 3/4 ton trucks reporting issues of towing 25-28' Airstreams that have the vehicle as the root cause. It is quite common for folks with SUV's, vans and 1/2 ton trucks reporting issues towing 27-28' trailers. Most common is payload, but sway, oversteer, cooling and braking issues are also common complaints.

[maroth]

Got tired of the increased costs. The new design (I assume b/c I never ran into maintenance cost issues with the 7.3) I think caused a lot of that too. Pulling the cab for things you could to otherwise, pulling the entire front end (with a ranch hand bumper) to change out the AC compressor. Def and regen expense (which you can fix, but that leads to other issues) Plus they're making 1/2 tons stronger too. Things like that caused me to make the decision.

[tjdonahoe]

3/4 ton hands down..no question about it..

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by 1StreamDream

I don't really have anything new to add, but I have direct experience in exactly this scenario. I had a 2016 F-150 (5.0L v8) when we acquired our 25' RB twin flying cloud, and thought we would be ok. I have towed before, travel trailers, utility trailers, boats, so I have a decent experience base to draw from. On our initial ride home after purchase (it was a 1300 mile trip) I had already decided that I was not comfortable with the dynamics, and I upgraded to an F-250 and got it about a month ago. My F-250 is also gas (7.3L), and has the 4.30 rear end, so as a tow vehicle it is way more capable than I need for my current trailer but I custom ordered, and got it configured for towing as its primary use case. I do wish my MPG was a little better, right now I get maybe 13 non towing and 9-10 with flatland towing. As for the economics of gas vs diesel, I don't have any experience there, but my 7.3L gas is way more than I need, there is no way I can justify "needing" a diesel and I cannot see the economics working out over the long term. Sure they get better MPG, but they also cost more to maintain, and repair, and the up front cost is substantial. No regrets about a gas engine. The F-250 is significantly more stable, and the towing experience is much more pleasant. I intend to have many long trips, and with that mission in mind I wanted peace of mind, and safety margin. F-250 rides rougher in my opinion, but I have absolutely no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat, but if I started over, I might opt for the 3.73 gear instead of the 4.30 to try and squeeze out a little more MPG.

You are correct about the 373 gears...your mileage may be better

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by maroth

Thanks for all the great info here. I am the other guy... I just got fed up with the emission changes (pls don't flame me for this) and increased costs on the diesels, and recently traded in my F350 6.7 for 5.3 GMC gasser p/u for my TV. And I'm curious about this statment... "Yep Larry summarized the situation beautifully for newer Airstreams. 1/2 tons are great for 23 and under." I have a 1989 29' - so it's not a "newer" type. Is there a weight/towing difference from the older vs newer Airstreams?



My 5.3 GMC is GVWR 7200 min 7600 max (weighed 6040 lb dry). The trailer is GVWR 6800 (5600 dry wt). GMC towing weight with Wt Dist hitch is 6100 lb min 11,700 max. I believe from reading this (and the other threads) I am OK with this set up, but should expect to have to stay alert (speed, breaking etc..) on the GMC for this trailer. Does anyone disagreed?

You must like going up the pass in the slow lane with the flashers on..at 4000 rpm...you may be fine at sea level ...life is too short to be underpowered

[coltnkat]

Originally Posted by jcl

A big reason for the apparent consensus is that those who don’t choose larger trucks, for a variety of reasons, tend to not post as fervently, as they are routinely accused of putting themselves, their families, and other road users at risk. Those of us who don’t adhere to that belief system sit most of theses threads out.

Belief system? “Dear lord of all 1/2 ton Fords, I know I’m over payload, but I have faith that you’ll protect me. I know, oh lord, that you’re stronger than your makers say you are. Amen.”

It’s not about belief. Weigh it. You may be fine. You may not be. I wasn’t, but I listened to people on this forum in order to justify a bad decision that I wanted to believe I could get away with. My Tundra was 400+lbs overloaded on the rear axel and only 20lbs shy on the front when fully loaded with my 27 FB. Weigh it.

[BayouBiker]

Exactly coltnkat, The statement "I have a (1/2 ton, or midsized SUV, or Minivan, etc.) pulling a 27' trailer and it has pulled fine so far" is not very informative. It is not because I can take an overloaded, unsafe and unstable combination and drive it for 50k miles with no issue as long as I'm careful. So the statement simply states what is already known and does not provide any information about the true capability. On the other hand, the statement, my 1/2 ton experiences sway from time to time and oversteer, or its brakes heat up on steep grades, provides significant information. So it is irrelevant that many don't have issues. It is the relative number of people who do report issues for various combinations that inform us of capability.

[VacuumKing]

The Total Combined Weight Rating is the only thing FIRST. After that, everything is just to look, sound and feel better.
I was a Senior Diesel tech for 20 years, several other men were driving Big Trucks back in the teamster days.
Do the chart.
The Engine is not the weakest link here.

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by jcl

Either will work, there are just trade offs to decide on with each choice.

A big reason for the apparent consensus is that those who don’t choose larger trucks, for a variety of reasons, tend to not post as fervently, as they are routinely accused of putting themselves, their families, and other road users at risk. Those of us who don’t adhere to that belief system sit most of theses threads out.

Good luck with your purchase.

Your " trade off" towing in this example, with a F-150 Vs a F-250 is safety.No matter what special hitch you use, on the smaller truck.
Everything is fine, until suddenly it isnt, and the trailer drives the smaller tow vehicle.
I post these, not for the " towing experts" who's opinion won't be "swayed" , but for people who may be brand new to driving combination vehicles.
A bigger tow vehicle, (Weight/Wheelbase/ etc) is safer then a smaller tow vehicle, pulling the same said trailer.