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Old 03-11-2021, 08:03 PM   #1
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Tongue Weight and trailer GVWR

Ok, so my trailer has a GVWR of 7600lbs. If (let's say) 1000lbs is on the tongue, can I still only have 7600, or does the limit effectively go up to 8600?! In reverse, the 1000 subtracts from the truck's available weight, so I'm thinking it should do the opposite, but I can;t find that anywhere. Am I missing something?

Yes, while not hitched, the trailer would then be heavier, but that weight will be on the jack, so not the axles...
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Old 03-11-2021, 10:42 PM   #2
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if you look at the placard on the front driver's side corner of your trailer you will see that the total load capacity of the two axles is less than the GVWR. So... the load bearing on the hitch has already been calculated into the GVWR formula.

The cargo capacity of the trailer is what it is.
The maximum axle/tire capacity is what it is.
The GVWR is what it is.
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Old 03-12-2021, 05:37 AM   #3
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Rated hitch weight of the TV is the max weight the TV is designed for.
GVWR is the maximum allowable weight for either the TV or TT
Combined GVWR is the max rating for both the TV and TT combined, the the TV is rated for
Tongue or hitch weight is already a component of the above and is only a portion of the TT weight on the TV hitch.
Hope this helps. You should spend some time researching the topics and learn how to,properly set up your TV and TT safely
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Old 03-12-2021, 05:37 AM   #4
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Part of the GVW is carried on the axles. Part is carried on the tongue. As Al said, the limits on the placard are the limits. My trailer has a GVWR of 6800 lbs. An axle rating of 6400 lbs. When hitched with the WD I generally have 800 lbs added to the truck by the tongue and 5700 lbs on the axles. So I run about 500 lbs under the GVWR. You need to do a CAT scale pass to know what is going on with your rig weight wise.
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Old 03-12-2021, 06:26 AM   #5
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Welcome Aboard👍

^
All the above is absolutely true and BTW there is no room for "let's say" in getting the set-up set-up.🤔

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Old 03-12-2021, 09:18 AM   #6
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That is the question every one asks - no worries. I went through an exercise to marry Truck and Trailer. To see my journey go here! https://www.marriedwithairstream.com...-your-trailer/
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:30 AM   #7
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Good comments by the others. One small quibble with the original question...the trailer weighs the same - whether hitched or not. The weight borne by the trailer axles is the same; whether the trailer is hitched or unhitched and resting on its tongue jack.

Definitely keep the weight and balance (thus tongue weight) of your trailer well within the limits of your towing vehicle. IMHO, 80% to 85% is a good window of safety.
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Old 03-12-2021, 09:42 AM   #8
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Determining trailer tongue weight/etrailer.com
Gave me a better understanding of trailer weights.. I’d recommend reading through it. I put it in my iphone notes for a check list on weighing my trailer. Cat Scales app.is good to have to.
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:16 AM   #9
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7800 on axles.....1050 on tongue...13 31’ Classic...gvw 10000
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Old 03-12-2021, 10:58 AM   #10
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TW is measured on a scale.
Receiver weight is 'determined'.

[QUOTE=Trowbridge;2470642]Good comments by the others. One small quibble with the original question...the trailer weighs the same - whether hitched or not. The weight borne by the trailer axles is the same; whether the trailer is hitched or unhitched and resting on its tongue jack.

That is not true at all, the CAT tickets will verify it.
Results from one trip...
760lb off the TV front axle with no WD and a loaded for camping rig.
560lb returned to the FA with WD set, 100lb light
AS axles 7480lb with no WD, 7640lb with WD, 160lb moved.
560+160=720lb total weight moved,
TV rear axle +920lb with WD set


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Old 03-12-2021, 02:28 PM   #11
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It is all an estimate if you do not weight each tow vehicle, trailer wheel, and the tongue/hitch individually. Why all the trouble? Because a TV and TT is not loaded fore and aft as well as left and right equally and these incidental weight differences add up to uneven tire/wheel loads. Now what did I do? I just aired up all the tires to their placard amount, loaded everything up and drove to a CAT Scale and weighed the truck and trailer both hitched and unhitched. I was a little over gross, but after eliminating a few item we don't use any more I just said that's close enough. Went for a lengthy test drive and It towed the best of any trailer I have ever owned. Some of that is credit is due to the Hensley hitch.
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Old 03-12-2021, 05:24 PM   #12
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Payload towing AND TOWING CAPACITY

Why do we always have to talk in code. Let.s start giving a straight answer to the weight issue, weight distribution, curb weight, payload, ect. This can be easily explained so the average person can understand. This is not a game. It is life and death.
The labeling is so deceiving no ordinary person can understand. Guaranteed. Tow vehicles and trailers including all relevant components such as tires, axles, what is included in curb weight, what is included in tongue weight and distribution. Very, very confusing. Chuck
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Old 03-13-2021, 06:40 AM   #13
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Welcome Aboard👍

Chuck,
It's more fun if we talk in code. That way we all can just keep talking, and no one takes the time to understand.
Disclaimer, we Streamed 18 seasons without any code and wonder of wonders we are still here.
It's called seat of the pants Airscreaming, some would consider that heresysafe.

You can actually be pretty darn safe just by using little common sense, using a quality hitch staying under the tire and axle load ratings and driving responsibly, no codes involved. 👍

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Bob
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Old 03-13-2021, 07:29 AM   #14
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Not sure I have read many threads concerned about the weight of the AS’s we are towing. One quick trip to the CAT scales and for a few dollars you can determine how much weight is on your trailers axles and tongue and determine if you are overweight. Axles on trailers are designed to support their GVWR, with some help from the jack.

Seems like the discussion should be on how to load the cargo into an AS?

1. What types of things are stored in the overhead cabinets? Our vote is light non-breakable items.
2. What types of things are stored/towed in the rear of the AS? Our vote with a rear bathroom is to NOT store dirty laundry in the shower, since it effects the sway of the trailer when towed. Many vote to put the heavy items into the area in front of the axles, like we did with our Coleman pop up so many years ago.
3. Do you take any preventive measures to ensure drawers do not open while “underway”? Our renovated ‘64 Overlander includes clamps and straps to keep stuff in place. We do a walk thru of “Gracie” to ensure we can tell the Captain during the “Sea and Anchor” detail/process that we are “ready for sea! Thought I would throw that one in for the Navy folks reading this response.

Seems like weight considerations should be focused on the TV? How many salesmen claim their half ton pickups can tow over 10,000 lbs regardless of payload rating or rear axle weight rating? Questions on TV weight considerations are impacted by how many people will be in the TV, and use of a topper or tonneau cover, and how much stuff you bring to the camping experience. Not sure our favorite YouTube channels on towing and TV’s address the OP’s question very often; “TFL Truck” and their Ike Gauntlet challenge of descending and climbing the West side of the Eisenhower tunnel to/from Dillon, CO (except weekend of the big storm on 13Mar21). “Big Truck, Big RV” also provides advice on the TV, and provides weight info on the various trailers he reviews.

Recommend OP visit a nearby RV park and talk to some of the residents/campers on a variety of topics like this and they will be glad to share their knowledge/experience.
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Old 03-17-2021, 02:22 PM   #15
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So for some reason, I simply love this conversation but it drives me nuts. Call me crazy and that would be kinder than some of the things I'm called. Now that you all know that about be, let me ask my very simple questions on this topic... My TV GAWR F & R is 3950. My TV tires are Max load 2403. Knowing I have two tires on each axle, is one to think that the Tire Load for each axle is a combination of both tires (2403 x 2 = 4806)? So if my axles are rated at 3950 each, the combination of both tires is 4806 (we're talking in lbs here).... I'm good with my tire & axle setup since my tires are rated higher than the axles. Even though the load-range (SL) is standard load? Any concerns with this setup? (BTW - my TT = GVW 5600 GVWR 6800) Second part, what the best way to get actual tongue weight? (I don't want to rely on the book.)
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Old 03-17-2021, 03:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
if you look at the placard on the front driver's side corner of your trailer you will see that the total load capacity of the two axles is less than the GVWR. So... the load bearing on the hitch has already been calculated into the GVWR formula.

The cargo capacity of the trailer is what it is.
The maximum axle/tire capacity is what it is.
The GVWR is what it is.
That makes sense to me. But then I looked at the placard on the GT that I'm picking up on Monday (I had the dealer take a pic for me last week to confirm weights).

GVWR - 7600
GAWR F - 3800
GAWR R - 3800
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Old 03-17-2021, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroth View Post

Every thing that was listed here is good.



Second part, what the best way to get actual tongue weight? (I don't want to rely on the book.)
Best here is a Sherline Scale.


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Old 03-17-2021, 07:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dog_and_cat View Post
That makes sense to me. But then I looked at the placard on the GT that I'm picking up on Monday (I had the dealer take a pic for me last week to confirm weights).

GVWR - 7600
GAWR F - 3800
GAWR R - 3800
IMO, that is a great improvement. There are times when one axle has more load than the other.

Still, the specs are what they are. ALL of them have to be respected.

Maximum cargo capacity on the placard is 1,295 lbs. There is no way to add the weight mentioned in the first post without exceeding this max cargo spec. (unless one carries their rock collection up front :-)
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Old 03-17-2021, 08:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroth View Post
So for some reason, I simply love this conversation but it drives me nuts. Call me crazy and that would be kinder than some of the things I'm called. Now that you all know that about be, let me ask my very simple questions on this topic... My TV GAWR F & R is 3950. My TV tires are Max load 2403. Knowing I have two tires on each axle, is one to think that the Tire Load for each axle is a combination of both tires (2403 x 2 = 4806)? So if my axles are rated at 3950 each, the combination of both tires is 4806 (we're talking in lbs here).... I'm good with my tire & axle setup since my tires are rated higher than the axles. Even though the load-range (SL) is standard load? Any concerns with this setup? (BTW - my TT = GVW 5600 GVWR 6800) Second part, what the best way to get actual tongue weight? (I don't want to rely on the book.)
I think the axle rating has more to do with the suspension (springs and their connection to the vehicle) than the tires do, but I'm not an engineer.

If the tires on the tow vehicle (?? if it is a pickup truck ??) are passenger vehicle tires, not light truck tires, the tires' load capacity is required to be de-rated by the vehicle manufacturer.
(specifically this-> S4.2.2.2 When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.)

The only way to know the actual tongue weight is to weigh the trailer every time it is loaded. The actual tongue weight varies by the way the cargo is loaded inside the trailer. More load in front of the trailer's axle makes the tongue heavier. More load behind the trailer's axle makes the tongue lighter (and more susceptible to sway)

After weighing a few times I realized I load the trailer similarly every time, and that the tongue weight pretty much stays the same +/- 20 lbs. Once I set the load distribution correctly, there are very few times it needs changing. YMMV.
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Old 03-17-2021, 08:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maroth View Post
So for some reason, I simply love this conversation but it drives me nuts. Call me crazy and that would be kinder than some of the things I'm called. Now that you all know that about be, let me ask my very simple questions on this topic... My TV GAWR F & R is 3950. My TV tires are Max load 2403. Knowing I have two tires on each axle, is one to think that the Tire Load for each axle is a combination of both tires (2403 x 2 = 4806)? So if my axles are rated at 3950 each, the combination of both tires is 4806 (we're talking in lbs here).... I'm good with my tire & axle setup since my tires are rated higher than the axles. Even though the load-range (SL) is standard load? Any concerns with this setup? (BTW - my TT = GVW 5600 GVWR 6800) Second part, what the best way to get actual tongue weight? (I don't want to rely on the book.)
For tire loading you are correct. You are limited by GAWR of 3950. To great actual tongue weight you can use a sherline scale or weigh you TT on avCat scale unhooked from your tv
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