Time for a new TV - Tundra or Sierra?

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Lensman

Please take time to consider the NISSAN TITAN XD 5.O CUMMINS DIESEL.
Also available in gas version
5 year/ 100,000 mile warranty

All American made.
Designed in California
Engineered in Michigan
Tested in Arizona
Built in Mississippi
Powered in Indiana and Tennessee
3/4 ton Pick up
555 torque
6 speed Aisian transmission

2080 payload
12,300 pound tow
Every convenience and option none to man.
What I like the most is the Zero Gravity seats.

You forgot.....Repaired everywhere.

Zero Gravity seats? What next, military grade rust?

Don't get me wrong, as I'm a total Nissan/Datsun fan, from my 72 510, to the Hardbody trucks, 200sx, 240/260, right up to my Altima 3.5SE 6sp. Just not into sticking weird names on seats and aluminum.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Lensman

Please take time to consider the NISSAN TITAN XD 5.O CUMMINS DIESEL.
Also available in gas version
5 year/ 100,000 mile warranty

All American made.
Designed in California
Engineered in Michigan
Tested in Arizona
Built in Mississippi
Powered in Indiana and Tennessee
3/4 ton Pick up
555 torque
6 speed Aisian transmission

2080 payload
12,300 pound tow
Every convenience and option none to man.
What I like the most is the Zero Gravity seats.

It’s a nice looking truck. If I was considering other than US nameplates it would be on the list.

[n2916s]

I do love mine. 40k and change and never been back to the dealer. Could live without the fuel filter changes every 10k and the $90 oil changes...

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

The OP was asking about a Tundra vs a Sierra to tow a 25’ classic. So instead the people that have diesels start in. Neither a Tundra or a Sierra are diesels. And both the Tundra or Sierra are very common tow vehicles for an AS.

As you have said, and I have said, it is a matter of preference, where you tow, and how often you tow. But not really helping the OP trying to decide between a Tundra and Sierra to talk about a diesel or a 3/4 ton. They probably have some very good reasons for not wanting a diesel or a 3/4 ton. And it appears they have some experience since they have towed an AS for some time.

It seems like every time a tow vehicle thread starts it comes back to the same argument over and over again. It’s like kids on the street “my dad is stronger than your dad.”

Maybe for once we think about what the OP is asking about and respond within those parameters.

Yes, Daq, I agree that the posts have drifted away from the OP's question. My comment was in response to you running down diesels as TVs .... you made the comment about diesels ... I responded accordingly.

My suggestion to the OP is to look at not only the best value for his $ in the short run, but also safety, comfort, AND the extent of the service network for the TV whether fueled by gas or diesel. As a former (and ancient) economics instructor, I would caution anyone at this point in time to not even remotely look at EVs (total cost ...to the environment with disposition / replacement of batteries) .... they too, Daq, are not available as a Sierra or Tundra configuration. The Sierra is, however, available in a 2500 HD .... D designates diesel ...

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Yes, Daq, I agree that the posts have drifted away from the OP's question. My comment was in response to you running down diesels as TVs .... you made the comment about diesels ... I responded accordingly.

My suggestion to the OP is to look at not only the best value for his $ in the short run, but also safety, comfort, AND the extent of the service network for the TV whether fueled by gas or diesel. As a former (and ancient) economics instructor, I would caution anyone at this point in time to not even remotely look at EVs (total cost ...to the environment with disposition / replacement of batteries) .... they too, Daq, are not available as a Sierra or Tundra configuration. The Sierra is, however, available in a 2500 HD .... D designates diesel ...

Shows how much you don't know! The "D" stands for duty, as in heavy duty. You can get a Sierra 2500HD with two types of 6.0l gas motors, or the Duramax diesel.

Both share the same brakes, frame and axles; in fact the gasser would be a safer vehicle as its brakes would be hauling down a lighter vehicle.

Stick to ancient economics.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[overlander64]

I respectfully dissent from recommending the Nissan Titan XD Diesel. We have had our 2017 since August 8, 2017, and it has been so undependable that we are in fear of hooking it to one of our Airstream products and going anywhere. When we do finally decided to take it somewhere, it almost inevitably ends with another problem to take back to the dealer. The motor management computer has had to be reflashed at least three times that the dealer has told me about. The transmission control computer has been reflashed twice that I have been told about. Three times, it has totally lost its brakes (master cylinder empty) with only braking from emergency brake. Four times, it has lost most of its braking power but still had enough to stop in about four times the usual distance. The built-in trailer brake controller failed the third time we tried to tow our car hauler a distance of less than 100 miles (it randomly locks up the brakes on the trailer and the only way to continue is to disable the trailer brakes). The air conditioner/heater operate hit or miss you never know when you are driving down the road if the heat or air conditioning will stop operating. All of this has happened after the truck was delivered (after a very long wait for a dealer trade where the dealer didn't have the courtesy to trailer the truck even though it was over 500 miles to return with the truck) -- and the truck was delivered with a damaged bed liner, filthy cab, and blemished paint and the dealer evidently hoped that we wouldn't notice. It was also delivered without two dealer installed accessories that were promised. It has also had both exterior door handles on the driver's side fail as well as the interior handle on the driver's side.


The original selling dealer was so lax in service knowledge on this vehicle that we have begun taking it to the next nearest dealer (one is 35 miles away while the other is 25 miles away), and we still haven't received the stellar service that we have become accustomed to with our GM dealer of 35 plus years (and only one mile from our home). We have been in constant contact with Customer Satisfaction with Nissan Corporate office in Tennessee with limited satisfaction. I wish that we had my GMC Suburban even with 200,000 plus miles, I had no reservations with taking it anywhere in the country on a moments notice. After more than a year the Titan has less than 6,000 miles and I doubt that it will even approach 10,000 miles by its second birthday if something doesn't improve dramatically -- and there certainly isn't any savings in fuel over our old Suburban 9 to 11 MPG in town and no more than 15 on the highway with the Titan (averaged 12 MPG in town with 7.4 Liter Suburban, 16 on the highway and 12 MPG on highway towing) -- don't have enough miles towing to have any idea how badly that will impact the economy figures. We are planning to attend an Airstream Rally in May, but we may not be making that trip if this truck doesn't improve.


Kevin

[Scott59]

The only weakness of the Toyota is the brakes. You will have warped rotors in 20,000 miles. The Sierra’s brakes are far superior.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Scott59

The only weakness of the Toyota is the brakes. You will have warped rotors in 20,000 miles. The Sierra’s brakes are far superior.

80,000 miles on mine. Brakes never warped. Just replaced pads 5,000 miles ago. I think it’s safe to say that it’s possible to warp the brakes in 20,000 miles, but not a certainty.

[AFTER TAXES]

Originally Posted by pteck

For the 2017 model year, practically all the gassers had as much, or more HP than your '17 ram 6.7. They are all beasts.

Cummins 6.7 - 385hp
Ram 5.7 gasser - 383hp
Ram 6.4 gasser - 410hp
Tundra - 381hp

There's no flashing lights necessary here. Anything with close to 400hp, regardless of gas or diesel, will be hauling the mail. It's not the vehicle if one can't maintain speed with that kind of power.

torque brother......not HP. how about longevity ?

[mefly2]

I stand corrected .... and my apologies to Isuzusweet - no offense intended. HD may refer to either gas or diesel power in the GM choices for TVs. Here is what came in the mail just before my earlier post ... kind of looks like an AS behind the GMC. Sorry my ancient eyes are not what they once were. It looks like some of the various TV brands are courting AS buyers.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by AFTER TAXES

torque brother......not HP. how about longevity ?

No. You've got it wrong. Power is what matters. Power as in HP.

HP includes torque. And rpm.

I'm not dismissing torque. But torque cannot stand alone when trying to understand the speed at which work is done.

Longevity is baseless for a consumer diesel motor where everything else will long fail before the block. In this, Toyota is the answer.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by AFTER TAXES

torque brother......not HP. how about longevity ?

Some people will never understand what you mean brother. They just don't have any operational experience with a broad torque band.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by pteck

No. You've got it wrong. Power is what matters. Power as in HP.

HP includes torque. And rpm.

I'm not dismissing torque. But torque cannot stand alone when trying to understand the speed at which work is done.

Longevity is baseless for a consumer diesel motor where everything else will long fail before the block. In this, Toyota is the answer.

In towing or wishing to accelerate to any speed, torque will dictate, how fast you get there, or how much you can pull.

HP is what allows you to go faster.

A vehicle with high hp and low torque will pull a trailer very very slowly to begin with, but eventually will travel faster than a vehicle with low hp and high torque; but the vehicle with low hp and high torque will be easier to tow with and be able to pull more, and faster up to a certain speed.

Gearing also has a lot to do with judging what kind of motor, transmission you wish to have in a TV.

My bosses 18,000 km FIAT Ecodiesel engine just blew up a couple of months ago. The bottom end of the block (crankshaft main bearings) were completely destroyed. Everything else on the motor is just fine; just NOT the block. It will be April until a new shipment of engines comes from Italy, and he gets his truck back.

Toyota doesn't sell diesels in NA unfortunately.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by pteck

Longevity is baseless for a consumer diesel motor where everything else will long fail before the block. In this, Toyota is the answer.

This is confusing to me. Toyota is not the only vehicle that is reliable, but people insist on using the phrase “Toyota reliability” as if nothing else is reliable. Any good truck these days properly maintained will go 200,000. There are plenty of 35 year old trucks on the road that will still pull anything Airstream makes. Most reliability issues I saw when towing were maintenance problems.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

In towing or wishing to accelerate to any speed, torque will dictate, how fast you get there, or how much you can pull.

HP is what allows you to go faster.

A vehicle with high hp and low torque will pull a trailer very very slowly to begin with, but eventually will travel faster than a vehicle with low hp and high torque; but the vehicle with low hp and high torque will be easier to tow with and be able to pull more, and faster up to a certain speed.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

Torque is measured in ft-lbs, and is a force applied at a distance. Horsepower is that force, doing work, per unit time. Torque can be multiplied with gearing but power cannot. These are the most misused terms on this forum.

With that said, I just traded one 400hp gas truck for a 400 hp diesel truck. I cannot explain the difference but the diesel is simply amazing, and that is in stock tune. Many in my area do simple modifications to them and get ridiculous hp and torque gains.

Anecdotal stories about tiny V6 diesels blowing up do not reflect on the reliability of solidly built full sized engines. When you try to make big power with a tiny 3L engine physics is going to win.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

This is confusing to me. Toyota is not the only vehicle that is reliable, but people insist on using the phrase “Toyota reliability” as if nothing else is reliable. Any good truck these days properly maintained will go 200,000. There are plenty of 35 year old trucks on the road that will still pull anything Airstream makes. Most reliability issues I saw when towing were maintenance problems.

They may all be reliable to a point, but Toyota has earned its reputation for reliability by generally being more reliable than the competition.

You’re still playing the averages though. It’s always possible to get a lemon, just less likely with Toyota.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

This is confusing to me. Toyota is not the only vehicle that is reliable, but people insist on using the phrase “Toyota reliability” as if nothing else is reliable. Any good truck these days properly maintained will go 200,000. There are plenty of 35 year old trucks on the road that will still pull anything Airstream makes. Most reliability issues I saw when towing were maintenance problems.

That sounds more like durability than reliability. The two terms mean different things.

Something can go a long time without wearing out, and thus be durable, while still needing multiple interventions to keep it running.

Fewer interventions required relates to having better reliability.

All modern engines have durability that is more than sufficient for the expected life of the vehicle. Not all modern vehicles have the same reliability.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I cannot explain the difference but the diesel is simply amazing, and that is in stock tune.

It generally isn’t so much the absolute hp, as it is the torque reserve. Enough torque in reserve that the transmission often doesn’t need to shift. That feels like power to the operator, even if the higher torque engine has less power on the dyno, and thus isn’t as fast up the hill.

[desertratt]

Nothing has fallen off my 2001 Dodge Cummins 2500 camper special. Plus i load my truck camper tow a boat and trailer with sand rail. Plus with 226k miles doesnt use a drop of oil. Nothing like having a real truck to getter done.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by desertratt

Nothing has fallen off my 2001 Dodge Cummins 2500 camper special. Plus i load my truck camper tow a boat and trailer with sand rail. Plus with 226k miles doesnt use a drop of oil. Nothing like having a real truck to getter done.

I would say it’s both reliable and durable. Heavy duty stuff can be more expensive to fix but it just plain holds up better.

Those early Dodges are going for top dollar too. Reliability, durability, and residual value are the trifecta for trucks.