Time for a new TV - Tundra or Sierra?

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

I would say it’s both reliable and durable. Heavy duty stuff can be more expensive to fix but it just plain holds up better.

Those early Dodges are going for top dollar too. Reliability, durability, and residual value are the trifecta for trucks.

Don't disagree with your points there.

KK4YZ and jcl differentiated it well. Toyota didn't earn its reputation for reliability and durability without merit. On the other hand, Dodge/Ram/Fiat over the decades has earned the opposite reputation of being less reliable. Sure the trucks are still durable, yet at the literal expense of more time and cost for upkeep which is my point.

The newer emissions laden Rams (actually all diesels, including Toyota's oversees diesels), have proven less reliable with all the necessarily ancillary technologies to make them more well mannered, quiet, and less polluting. Diesel has turned a corner, not necessarily for the better.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by pteck

Don't disagree with your points there.

KK4YZ and jcl differentiated it well. Toyota didn't earn its reputation for reliability and durability without merit. On the other hand, Dodge/Ram/Fiat over the decades has earned the opposite reputation of being less reliable. Sure the trucks are still durable, yet at the literal expense of more time and cost for upkeep which is my point.

The newer emissions laden Rams (actually all diesels, including Toyota's oversees diesels), have proven less reliable with all the necessarily ancillary technologies to make them more well mannered, quiet, and less polluting. Diesel has turned a corner, not necessarily for the better.

I have said this for a while now; that since 2007, diesel engines have been going through what the gas engine went through in the 70's and early 80's; with the same experimentation with new technologies, and corresponding problems as the gassers did back then.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by jcl

It generally isn’t so much the absolute hp, as it is the torque reserve. Enough torque in reserve that the transmission often doesn’t need to shift. That feels like power to the operator, even if the higher torque engine has less power on the dyno, and thus isn’t as fast up the hill.

You also can access that torque between 1200 and 2400 rpm which is the real bonus.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Tuco

You also can access that torque between 1200 and 2400 rpm which is the real bonus.

Published number was peak torque at 1600 rpm for the 1999 5.9 with the manual transmission, but I fully agree with your point. That isn’t a diesel benefit however, it is a turbocharging benefit.

My stock gasoline 3.0 inline six had peak torque from 1400 to 5000 rpm, which in a lightweight car made the six speed manual somewhat redundant. Mine was a 535, but the same engine as the graph below. 7000 rpm redline. You could go 1-3-5 or 1-4-6 quite easily. Turbocharging and engine management software were the key. The same issue existed as with the diesels today; the lack of need to shift made it seem very powerful at those low revs. However, to get the best absolute performance, one had to take it up towards the hp peak, not the torque peak. Shifting early was very relaxing, however.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by jcl

Published number was peak torque at 1600 rpm for the 1999 5.9 with the manual transmission, but I fully agree with your point. That isn’t a diesel benefit however, it is a turbocharging benefit.

My stock gasoline 3.0 inline six had peak torque from 1400 to 5000 rpm, which in a lightweight car made the six speed manual somewhat redundant. Mine was a 535, but the same engine as the graph below. 7000 rpm redline. You could go 1-3-5 or 1-4-6 quite easily. Turbocharging and engine management software were the key. The same issue existed as with the diesels today; the lack of need to shift made it seem very powerful at those low revs. However, to get the best absolute performance, one had to take it up towards the hp peak, not the torque peak. Shifting early was very relaxing, however.

I don't disagree with you here. I have no idea what a stock 99 runs like and I really have no idea where peak torque is now. There was a laundry list of modifications I was looking for when I set out to get my first diesel. Tuned, Boost fooler, 5 speed, exhaust brake ect. Took me 6 mo to find something close to what I wanted that didn't cost 18k with 170k miles on it. That's how I ended up with this dually (not really what I wanted), but it had all the mods I wanted and then some. What I fell in love with is that this combo reminded me of my old 73 Road Runner street/strip car with its 650+ HP 440. I hear you about long shifting. Used to rev that motor to 4k in first then shift to 4th and let it lope along thumping away! So low end torque is not always a function of a turbo.

[AlinCal]

Nice job of staying on topic here. Im sure the op is surely satisfied with the feedback. LOL.

[KCCO]

Originally Posted by AlinCal

Nice job of staying on topic here. Im sure the op is surely satisfied with the feedback. LOL.

You haven’t figured it out yet? They don’t care about the op - they just like to argue.......

[gandttimes]

What is disappointing is that some of us sign on to these discussions hoping to get or give some useful information pertaining to the OP'S question but instead get led down the same old path of everybody's opinion of everything that has nothing to do with the original question. Almost ready to sign off these forums as a complete waste of time.

[Countryboy59]

What if it keeps the OP from making a big mistake? I’d hate to see someone think that he has to have either a Tundra or Sierra half ton when there are much better options out there for towing.

If we were having this discussion at the campground I would simply toss the OP my keys and we would be all done. One test drive did it for me.

[KCCO]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

What if it keeps the OP from making a big mistake? I’d hate to see someone think that he has to have either a Tundra or Sierra half ton when there are much better options out there for towing.

If we were having this discussion at the campground I would simply toss the OP my keys and we would be all done. One test drive did it for me.

Please - lots of mindless chest thumping on these forums. Over and over again.

[nduncan]

I agree that this subject has been beaten to death.

[Tuco]

Ok, now we have wasted almost a full page hearing from the "off topic crowd". Time to get back to chest thumping! Welcome to the internet!

[GettinAway]

I’m just so glad I have a real “man’s” truck! Oh wait, I have a Tundra, it’s a car on a light frame, the junkyards are full of them. Most are still under warranty!
There really isn’t anything to gain from these threads after pg #2, but they do have entertainment value.

[desertratt]

sure the future is changing doubt the ranchers and farmers of this countrywill stop driving diesels. and john deere cat cummins etc are not going out of business. plus when fuel hit high prices years back all my buddies and i got oil from sushi restaurants and made our own fuel . what happens when your 20k battery dies. haha. also another buddy owns a garage works on toyota honda and nissan. he said his favorite customers are pruis owners they need batteries changed its like 5-6k takes him a few hours makes his whole week!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by KCCO

Please - lots of mindless chest thumping on these forums. Over and over again.

It’s not mindless. The OP is considering a Toyota and I think that’s a HUGE mistake. Don’t want opinions? Keep scrolling.

[KCCO]

Originally Posted by pteck

And here comes all the HD diesel bros who can't help but pat themselves on the back.

Way off topic guys, and is not helping this thread in anyway.

But they have opinions pteck, and they must brow beat us with them! If we don’t like it we should just keep scrolling! Ha!

[Tombomb68]

I only buy Toyota or Lexus. The are never best in class at anything but they always end up being the best somehow?!!?!

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by desertratt

... he said his favorite customers are pruis owners they need batteries changed its like 5-6k takes him a few hours makes his whole week!

Your friend must not have many customer 😀
My first Camry hybrid had 169k miles on it when it was rear ended and totaled. There was no sign of battery deterioration at that point- one can tell from decreasing gas mileage.

My replacement Camry hybrid now has 109k miles with no sign of battery deterioration.

The system manages battery charge and discharge cycles to maximize battery life.

By the way, I checked and battery replacement is about $3k now...about the same price as a transmission rebuild...which a hybrid will never need😀

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Tuco

Some people will never understand what you mean brother. They just don't have any operational experience with a broad torque band.

Yet some understand torque in ways you've not experienced.

jcl explained it well. What you enjoy is torque reserve in gear. With the gas pedal allowing you to conjur up a very large bandwidth of torque without shifting. Which also means large HP bandwidth in gear.

Torque is not a diesel only game. EV's have this is spades. With even more torque at 0 RPM. And no transmission to bother with. I've owned and driven an EV for 6 years now. Blows diesel and gas out of the water. Where a diesel acts like a lumbering hippo moving around, EV's have the response, torque, and HP to best many ICE (internal combustion) powerplants. Now that is torque under foot.

I also happen to own a 650hp/650tq missile in my garage. Until you've experienced that kind of torque unladen, you really have no concept of what performance means.

So when I tow. I want performance. Diesel doesn't tickle my fancy here. It's a burdened cargo carrier with a bad ride to match. If you need to carry more cargo, I get it. An AS doesn't require that kind of tonnage. I want a cruise liner when I'm on vacation.

[Rocinante]

Here's a thought: If you don't want to see a particular user's posts that you believe fall into a category of commentary that you do not wish to see, even though the commentary does not violate community rules, the "ignore user" function is just a click away.

All you have to do is click the user's name to the left of their post, and then click "Add username to your ignore list." Then you won't see their posts anymore. No need to argue, vent, or otherwise engage, and you can get on with your day.