The Anatomy of a Towing Accident -- What is?

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

I know two people who have purchased that saw stop device - my BIL and an old neighbor whom I'm still friends with. Both of them are kind of obsessive, compulsive worriers and neither use their saws very often.
So I will suggest you quit worrying about everything too much. When you are uptight your reaction time slows down and your decision making process is impaired.
I would have you consider the millions of camper, utility and equipment trailers that are towed billions of miles each year. Most of those trailers aren't set up with wd/sway devices or other fancy gew gaws nor are they being towed with gargantuan oversized TVs like so many of these Airstreams are. I'll bet if you could find some actuarial tables on the matter those blithe people don't statistically have a much greater chance of wrecking than people with every concieveable kind of safety device.
So my best advice to you is to relax a little and quit worrying about this stuff so much.
This from a man who has been using table saws, chop saws, nail guns, metal lathes, mills, chain saws, tractors, mowers, pulling trailers and a host of other potentially hazardous things for most of 50 years and in addition to still having all my fingers, toes and an intact spine still gets a peaceful night's sleep every day.

Excellent advice.

[21Airstream]

I don't believe there are that many crashes involving RV's (although I've seen a few motorhome fires). I've seen a few crashes that were the result of the driver having a fatal heart attack and driving off the side of the roadway while towing a travel trailer. Very sad, but true.

[AIRHEDS]

Originally Posted by DanB

Sawstop works to stop you from cutting fingers and other body parts off. It will not stop you from a kickback, loose or dull blade, or jaming a 1/4" steel plate into it. ... What I'm saying is get the basics right, learn the theories, and practice. ... Much like a tablesaw, you get better with practice.

Roger that, Dan, and I couldn't agree more about getting the basics right, learning the theories, and improving with practice. I hope this thread inspires others to help newbies with their up-front learning so they can practice. There was a ton of information out on the internet to demonstrate kick-back once I learned to search for it ... until then, it was something that happened on my old contractor saw all the time because I didn't know any better ... I thought, that's what table saws do. I often did everything wrong, but still have all of my fingers out of sheer luck and the grace of God. I routinely removed the overhead blade guard with its integrated riving knife (if you want to call it that). I even worked without the fence to do off-hand, angled cuts, and also cross-cut things wider than were longer. Not that I want to turn this into a table-saw safety thread, but the point is that I greatly benefited from studying the conditions which had the potential to create an accident. And in some cases where those brave enough to demonstrate the accidents shared video, they've imprinted learners with visual memory that backs-up the reading.

The take away is to learn from others. Not that I am asking anyone to demonstrate a roll-over for our post ... but helping to explain it is helpful. The end result is that I now, NEVER operate a table saw without a riving knife or overhead blade guard (it's always one or the other); I never perform off-hand cuts anymore; I never operate without the fence, and I never cross-cut without a cross-cutting sled (I've actually abandoned the cross-cutting sled since setting up the pair of Festool MFT/3 tables that are dedicated to cross-cutting with the TS-55 track saw ... but that's another whole thread ... :-)

Anyway, please keep sharing! And thanks for making time for newbies ...

Best regards,
Rich and Kat

[OTRA15]

The Quebec Rollover thread is an interesting read IMO:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...ec-153984.html

[PKI]

Attentive driving - what is it? Paying attention to the road conditions, traffic, rig position and potential hazardous conditions on or near the road ahead. Keeping two hands on the wheel is key. Checking mirrors regularly is important. Not becoming distracted by conversation or other non-driving related activity is mandatory. Adjusting acceleration, direction and braking inputs smoothly improves rig stability. Reacting to hazards before you reach them is the objective. Doing no unpredictable action eliminates surprise for others unless of course they are not actively driving. Keeping drinks managed and controlled so they do not distract or result in causing an unplanned input is a serious consideration. Checking rig status at every opportunity is important to reduce the probability of a mechanical incident. Constantly adjusting speed to match road and traffic conditions can not be neglected. Knowing when to stop for rest, to wait for better weather, and to make repairs is also a valid requirement to reduce the potential of a hazardous result. Planning the route prior to minimize traffic and poor road conditions can not be neglected.

Bet others have additional and likely better elements that should be included.

Travel safe and stay attentive. Pat

[Tater]

Your towing set up looks good. when we went from 25' to 30' we knew it was time to get an HD trucks because we were exceeding the limits of our 10 y/o gasser. Braking was the biggest thing and lack of power for the additional weight was another. Our HD diesel is a dream to drive and tow the A/S with. we have traveled mostly in Eastern US but on some fairly steep hills up and down. Fortunately, I encourage my wife to know everything I know about towing so we co-drive. The exhaust brake is unbelievably helpful on downgrades. So far we have climbed at the posted speed limit. We are extremely focused while driving and normally run the middle lane on a 3 lane interstate. We keep the speed down when descending so no issues with brakes on trailer heating since they are barely used. Enjoy your camping adventures and always be alert.

[macofpei]

Going up a hill or going down, braking either engine or foot, eventually you will need to fuel up and that, sometimes, can be a bigger challenge then all the rest. Most stations are made for cars or light trucks. You drive up pointing at the station with little wiggle room to help prevent theft of fuel. If you are pulling any RV, you will need to learn how to get into a service station, fuel up and leave the station.
Look at the station layout and pick the best pump to fill your unit. This usually the end pump depending on which side of you TV takes the fuel.
Watch the height of the pumps roof. It might not be tall enough for your unit. ( there is a video on utube showing what can happen)
Be sure that you can enter and exit safely.

[Louie Dee]

Originally Posted by dbj216

Everything said so far is good. Conventional "bumper hitch" trailer towing is dicer than the fifth wheel. I believe we who tow heavy trailers need to be aware of the significant change in vehicle dynamics while towing. Acceleration, turning, and braking all require more distance and more time. Don't think for a moment you can take a freeway exit ramp at the same speed you do in your car. Maybe you think those orange "recommended speed" signs on curves are most conservative. Never exceed that recommendation while towing a heavy trailer.

Another important safety factor is a good "checklist" that you systematically go down before pulling away. Lights, brakes, tire pressures, hitch connections, awnings secure and so forth help keep us safe. Pilots are taught to do this before every flight. I remember a rental yard hitching up a rental trailer with a 2 3/16 diameter coupler on a 2" ball on a family member's truck. He learned what those safety changes are all about. He should have checked it himself.

And like pilots, you must avoid "get there-itis". Gee, I gotta drive in this strong crosswind to make the Airstream rally tomorrow. Always a bad idea. Towing in high cross winds is dangerous. Towing on ice is stupid dangerous. Towing in low visibility conditions is, you guessed it, stupid dangerous too.

David

Hi David,

Just read your comments & completely agree. Also, I have a 34' A/S, livein Denver ( Use to live in Como) & enjoy the extra space. But after 34 years of A/Sing, I still struggle with backing up. Lou De Carolis

[Sodbust1]

Headed back from the Colo.mountians a few weeks ago,,,in the middle of the night.. Not far out of Denver,,,east on I70,,,,,out of no where we hit a turn on a over pass.. speed limit was 65 and we were running 60... This turn with trailer was more in line to 40 mph..
To make matters worst was the bridge seams Were like a massive 5mph speed bumps.. I truly feel we went air born 100 feet while still in a hard left hand turn..
TV and trailer was a full lane off center when we landed the first time only to deal with another one 2seconds later..
Good tires,,airpressure and a lot of luck we made it home alive.. I have towed millions of miles from lawn mower type trailers to 45 foot semi types and never had such a moment in my life and hope never to equal such event.
So it boils down to a proper loading,,limits and lots of luck with moment like this.. sodbust

[Jacob D]

33 years of corporate flying prop aircraft and frequent recurrent training in simulators with certified instructors teaches many lessons that relate to towing. Situational awareness" is drummed into a pilot's head from the first lesson to retirement as is use of flight planning, check lists, equiipment maintenance and fuel management. All this relates well to towing with a few additions.

I cringe a bit when I read threads about tires and folks complaining that certain types of tires have a 65mph speed limit. I believe speed is the #1 cause of towing accidents. If you want to tow faster than 65 you have no business on the road with other citizens.

Situational awareness is simply knowing everything it is possible to know about what is going on around you. Planning is knowing as much as you can find out about your route, road conditions, fuel management, your equipment limitations and anything else that might have some effect on your trip. The first lesson a pilot learns after take off is "fly the airplane". When towing you must drive the TV at all times and not allow any distraction to keep you from that task while moving at any speed.

All the things mentioned by other posters true. Disc vs drum brakes may give you a little more peace of mind but the most important thing is to know the limitations of yourself and your equipment and act accordingly even if that means not leaving the driveway.

[MarkFinATX]

We've now towed our 2016 Pendltion just over 5K miles. Tow vehicle is a 2015 F-150, Supercrew, short box, Lariat, V-8 gasser. Didn't realize we'd be pulling such a heavy load so soon. Luckily the Ford came equipped with Tow Pkg and heavy load option. The build sheet calls it the "6800#" option. I have the Hensley Arrow with 1400 lb. weight distribution bars. I load the bed carefully, heaviest items in front of the axel and load the trailer with weight distributed as evenly as possible.
Did 300+ miles on the Blue Ridge Pkwy and and found the whole rig to be comfortable to drive and brake. Michelin's (20") on the truck and the Sendel 16" alloy wheels with Michelin's (LT) on the trailer. Plus Dill TMPS and Centramatic wheel balancer's.
So I really tried to leave nothing to chance, have a fair amount of towing experience but still want to take a towing class.
Accidents? Bummer. Have heard some horror stories from fellow Airstreamer's.
Great advice here: Every story had one or more of those elements. Wind, ice, fog and speed.
Haste makes waste. In our case very very expensive waste!!!

[banderabob]

So, here is the visual set-up. Place your fingertips together end to end, right hand to left hand. Now flex up and down, thinking of one hand as the TV, the other the AS, and where your middle fingers touch, the hitch. In a very short distance, when the front of the TV goes up, the front of the trailer goes down....and the reverse action is also true in a very short distance.

What happened is over a distance of about 10-12', there was pavement that had buckled (on an I-10 entrance ramp) to about 35-40 degrees. At no more than 15mph, the resulting up and down opposing heaving of the TV and AS totally disengaged the trailer from the hitch; the emergency brake engaged, the trailer hit the pavement on the electric jack, and the AS slid into the back of the TV. Yes, correct hitch ball, and locked in place. When I took it in to replace the jack, my repair guys had never heard of an actual dis-engagement. They did check to ensure that there was no crack or other issue with the hitch receiver that may have contributed to this incident. BTW, getting the trailer back on the hitch, without an operable jack was a challenge, made easier by helpful good Samaritans.

While I was not driving, I have said before that since getting the AS, I drive slower, even when not towing. I don't need Michelins to allow me to go 10mph faster...much more enjoyable at 65. The lesson learned here is about reading the road surface immediately in front of you, and not going so fast as to not being able to adjust. I would like to think that I will never again be able to respond to a thread such as this!

[akjam]

I certainly agree with previous comments and in my mind, these address the big hitter items. Having the right TV for your trailer, the right hitch, properly set up, good tires, correct weight and balance and towing at a conservative speed are all hugely important and need to be done right from the beginning.

Two other things I would add is paying attention to driving conditions and the "last mile" before you stop for the night.

When I drive on the interstate, I can think of several conditions that increase the challenge and, in my mind, the potential for a mishap. Heavy high speed traffic (and a lot of large trucks), adverse weather (high winds and/or rain), poor road conditions / construction that goes on for miles / hills, windy roads, etc. What we have decided is that if there are any combination of two of these, we exit the interstate and find a back road even if it causes delays in our travels.

The last mile is when you have been driving close to your individual limit (6 hours for us) and you are close to where you are staying for the night. Most times, this is close to or in a town and maybe there is heavier than normal traffic 'cause it is close to rush hour. Maybe you are thinking about getting set up at the camp ground and what's for dinner so your mind wanders a bit. In my experience, that is the when the potential for an accident is the highest. I have learned not to be complacent just because you are close to the end of your journey for the day.

Good luck in your travels.
Jim

[Gneiss Guy]

This thread has mostly been about preventing serious accidents on the highway, but a goodly number of the Airstreams I have seen in campgrounds and elsewhere have dents and dings in the bumpers and surface aluminum, caused by low-speed impact with stationary objects. On our first extended trip with our previous AS, a 25', my wife backed me straight into a huge rock in Yosemite NP. I see others with upper corner dents which must have come from tree limbs, etc. The danger to your AS certainly doesn't end when you leave the highway! Drive slowly and deliberately, especially in campgrounds, filling stations and at home. Be sure your parking assistant is actually paying attention and don't be afraid to get out of the TV and check for yourself. Most of my accidents or near-accidents have been when I allowed myself to get in a hurry.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by HiJoeSilver

I thought I'dbe losing out on engine braking by not getting a diesel. Pleasantly surprised that the F150 ecoboost in tow mode automatically downshifts and uses the turbos to effectively engine break. With the extra cooling that came with the tow package I haven't had any temp problems. Downhills have been pretty comfortable. Start slow at the top. Eyes looking well ahead. Act early and plan well ahead of where you are. If you find yourself acting for where you are you are behind the power curve. Don't be afraid to pull over if there is room and you think you need to.

Good pointers. I would only add one very important item. Slow down to your planed descent speed before you actually are on the down slope. It takes a lot of engine and actual braking effort to shave 20 MPH of your speed once you are rolling down hill.

[dcasr]

Originally Posted by riffin-rich

Thanks to everyone's participation so far. Sorry about the fractional paragraph, avionstream - I was typing on my iPad and accidentally hit send three lines into the post...

Boxite: excellent, excellent info ... I'm looking for the stuff that "many of us already know" but we newbies don't know ...

I've done a lot to mitigate risk with technology, incidentally learned by reading this forum every night for several months:
- Tow vehicle: Ram 3500 with diesel (for exhaust braking while descending in the mountains, and even to help slow the whole thing on the highway in a panic stop) ... It's excessive, and stiff and beats us up pretty badly, but it will hopefully pull the boat I want too ... Hopefully ...
- Hitch: ProPride 3P w/1400 lbs of weight distribution - the projection hitch will manage, if not completely eliminate the sway
- TPMS: TST 510RV (6 sensors to cover our 4 wheels and the spare, with one extra sensor, just in case)

Precautions to take:
- Manage speed ... Slow it down ... Perhaps under 65 (or follow speed limits)
- Drive defensively
- Stay alert ... Don't drive tired ... Minimize mileage (I remember Protagonist mentioning once before that he follows the JTR) while others follow other similar prescriptive approaches
- Maintain safe distance and time intervals
- Follow road signs and don't exceed posted exit ramp speeds
- Avoid crosswinds, ice, low visibility conditions ... "Get-There-itis" ... Good point because I'm inflicted with this illness
- Avoid downhill turning and braking simultaneously - visualize, anticipate, and reduce speed ahead of time to preclude "the trifecta" resulting in jack-knifing and rolling-over
- Find a "safe driver course" ... that's been on my list since I read it a few weeks ago but haven't begun looking ... I don't think the one the judge made me attend for 8 hours on a Saturday counts (seriously ... Just about 8 years ago ... For riding my bicycle through 5 stop signs without my hands on the handlebars in Old Town Alexandria with no vehicular traffic except for the two overzealous Motorcycle Officers that were part of a task force to stop people from running stop signs). That day in court is worth another whole thread over a couple of beers...
- Ensure trailer brake controller is properly adjusted (question below about "how?")
- Start slow at the top of a descent
- Eyes looking well ahead
- Act early and plan well ahead of where you are

What else? Any more about the physics, ref. "high-level concepts" like Boxite shared?

Any stories or anecdotes about what can go (or went) wrong, and how it goes/went wrong, and what to do about it (or not do)? Hearing about your hair raising experiences would be very helpful. I saw the video also posted ... It was a duelly pulling a trailer that was swaying badly, recorded from the dashcam of the vehicle behind ... That was really good to understand what sway is, and what can happen as a result.

More importantly, how does one properly adjust the trailer's brake controller? I'm planning to use the stock integrated brake controller on my 2016 RAM 3500. Is this okay? How do you set it up so it's set "strong/sensitive enough" but "not too sensitive?"

Thanks for all of your attention on this thread!

_______________
A few more to add: Good wet weather tires for the Airstream. I always adjust the trailer brakes to come on just before the TV brakes bite, so it pulls the unit tight. Or if slight sway, again pulls it tight. I use engine braking going downhill unless it is very wet, as in actively raining, or ice or snow. Then I reduce the speed considerably before starting down. If raining or ice or snow on road I put the TV in 4WD, so I have power to the steering axle.

[overlander63]

The downhill control part is something we go over when doing an orientation with new trailer owners. In order to keep from going too fast downhill, or possibly worse, overheating the brakes of the trailer and tow vehicle, you will need to do this (it's easy, once somebody bothers to explain it):
Pick a downhill speed you will be comfortable with, for example, 45mph. As your rig descends, the speed will creep up to, and probably over that speed. When you get more than a couple of mph over that speed, firmly but not aggressively brake the rig to around 40mph, then completely release the brake pedal. Allow the rig to gain speed back up to a little over 45, and repeat.
You won't be going too fast, and by controlling speed in this manner, you won't be overheating the brakes and causing failure.
Even if your truck has downshift braking, or exhaust braking, you will probably eventually be in a situation where that alone won't keep everything slow enough.

[Longboard6]

This is one of the more enthralling threads I've read in a while. We jumped in over our heads 10 years ago with a small SOB. We took our time, made mistakes (nothing major). Now with a new AS we still go slowly. Best advise--when in doubt, slow down. I still see ASs flying by us 70+ mph...oh well.

[Piggy Bank]

We had a wonderful 10 day trip this summer, and had the most troubles and accident potential getting gas. Fortunately we didn't have any major issues, but that was as much luck as anything.

Lesson? Don't be on the lookout for the cheapest gas. Be on the lookout for the best place to gas up. A dollar or two difference for a tankful Just Doesn't Matter.

Several times the "best" pumps on the outside with wide open turns were Out of Order. Especially at the lower priced stations.

Or the location of the pumps put the trailer and TV in the path of vehicles backing up from parking at the door at the convenience store.

And then there was that curb cut that was smaller than it looked, and we didn't clear it quite squarely. Ouch baby.

Flat and wide open = Good

[bruceganoe]

Speed kills!!! Moderate speeds lead to safe journeys!! Give yourself enough time and you will arrive safe and ready for the next adventure!! Bruce