Swap Fiamma for Torklift

[afk314]

I'm considering dropping the Fiamma rack and moving to the Torklift 2" rear bumper hitch. I'm quite aware of the pros and cons, but I do have a question.

Has anyone used attachment points from the original Fiamma rack to stabilize a bike rack (like the 1up) that uses the Torklift hitch?

Although I purchased the metal brackets from ProPride for the Fiamma, I never installed them. I would like to know if installing these brackets and attaching them to the ends of the rack could further minimize bounce.

Thanks,
Adam

[NorrisRM]

Originally Posted by afk314

I'm considering dropping the Fiamma rack and moving to the Torklift 2" rear bumper hitch. I'm quite aware of the pros and cons, but I do have a question.

Has anyone used attachment points from the original Fiamma rack to stabilize a bike rack (like the 1up) that uses the Torklift hitch?

Although I purchased the metal brackets from ProPride for the Fiamma, I never installed them. I would like to know if installing these brackets and attaching them to the ends of the rack could further minimize bounce.

Thanks,
Adam

Was just cruising and I saw your question. Looks like no one answered. I had the very same question about using a receiver with perhaps a 1UP Super Duty or Kuat PRO X bike rack but securing the bikes from wobble using some form of brackets mounted to the back of the AS like the Fiamma brackets.

Hope someone takes this up.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by NorrisRM

Was just cruising and I saw your question. Looks like no one answered. I had the very same question about using a receiver with perhaps a 1UP Super Duty or Kuat PRO X bike rack but securing the bikes from wobble using some form of brackets mounted to the back of the AS like the Fiamma brackets.

Hope someone takes this up.

Your likely aware AS likes/recommends the Fiamma racks, vs the "hitch" type rear bike racks for reasons you mention; "sway", which can also contribute to trailer sway if not careful. That being said, I have been using Fiamma racks for all of my AS's, but recently decided to "upgrade" my 75lb standard Fiamma rack with an upgrade kit, taking the load to 165lbs. Reason was to carry my RAD E-bikes. The components are beefier and include SS tubing on the bottom, and stronger steel upper mounts, replacing the "cast" original mounts on either side of the upper rack secure points. That being said, both my RAD 5 Expand bikes will not fit in the lower tray; Fiamma is aware that not all Ebikes are the same, and are working on a "fix" which I suspect is an extended lower tray rack. (all I need is 3"-5" inches wider and they both will fit)

Now, all that being said, note I mention the upper "molded" rack mounts, one on either side secures the Fiamma to the AS. Both of these upper mounts are riveted to the AS structural frame with 2 rivets and to the sheet metal, with 2 more rivets, though no structural frame avaliable behind the Aluminum/metal panels on the inner side.

There are only 4 big rivets holding each of these mounts; 2 rivets securing thru outer sheet metal into the structural AS frame which is good. The other two rivets however, are just secured to the rear sheet metal, without any structural frame support.Which is not good.

Your question: can you use these to secure a "different" type rack for additional support? I would not use the original mounts; these original mounts are known to break with stress loads in some cases. One of mine broke at the pivot point base, as I was trying to remove during my upgrade. The AS dealer by me this past summer in WY said they had some issues with these mounting plates breaking also. I told him I was replacing the original Fiamma with this "upgrade kit"; he said they have seen the Fiamma 75lb anchor plates on either side, break; likely from too much weight on their Fiamma 75lb rack. I showed him my upgrade kit, which has the new welded steel mounts, replacing the molded mounts that he had seen break. He said he still was a bit skeptical till he sees some data from folks who have this new 165 lb rack in use for a while. (He worked on Aircraft in the Airforce as a structural mechanic, which was my training also when I was in the Navy, coincidently, so we both have some formal training with sheet metal and aluminum.)

Anyway, as I was securing the upgraded rack to the AS, the new mounts came with 6 holes each so I decided to drill an additional hole in each new mount in between the upper and lower big rivets securing to the frame, and install a self tapping stainless machine screw with epoxy glue, in between the two new rivets, which was a suggestion from the AS guys. This gives 5 total secure points in each new mount now; 3 each on the outer structural ribs, and 2 in the sheet metal aluminum without any structural supports, as before.

Would I use these to two upper supports for the type rack your talking about with the single fulcrum hitch type bike rack? I would surely try it, if your not getting a Fiamma. Perhaps you can get a different larger type mount which uses the structural support with more fasteners, would be a suggestion.

Pics below show the original rack, the original molded mount that broke when removing, the new mount black mount which is a two part welded mount with the rivets and extra screw I mentioned.

The Fiamma is a great rack, IMHO. I have used on last 3 AS's. Very secure going down the road for sure. It can be difficult to get stuff in/out of rear storage if you have bikes attached, but I always just take them off. Not a big deal. There are many other racks including mounting up front on the A frame, which I would seriously consider before going to the hitch type rack.

Let us know how you end up going.

[waninae39]

stick with the FIAMMA. its a great rack

the issue with bumper mount is a big issue
as its been discussed many times in this forum that it can cause unwanted sway due to the overhang at the rear.
The AS is designed to be slightly weight balanced forward over the hitch. adding a 50+ lb weigh far rear of the AS tires can cause a lot of rear bias torque

beware

call AS HQ and just ask then what they think

[NorrisRM]

Thanks gypsydad and wawinae39 both for this comment and your contributions on other threads.

This issue about bike racks is about the only thing on which I am still undecided. Decided on things like TV (thanks to CanAmRV), AS FB 27, ProPride Hitch etc but this one still has me scratching my head largely because I can see my wife and I wanting to leave the campsite and drive to a location where we then begin to cycle. That is exactly what we did a couple of years ago in Provence, renting a medium sized SUV at CDG, Paris, driving to Orange, buying a bike rack in Orange and renting bikes and then driving to locations and cycling from those locations. She is an avid cyclist and thinks I probably should get a light electric bike to make sure I can keep up.

Having a bike rack that we can put on our TV is a significant advantage. I think this was the deciding factor of Marc Leach of KYD who had bought a Fiamma and then changed his mind and ended up with a Kuat. Both the 1UP and Kuat seem pretty wobbly so I thought adding two U brackets to the structural AS frame and using ratchet straps to secure the bikes would reduce the wobble.

I fully understand that a receiver bike rack extends the weight further out from the rear of the AS creating more of a danger of causing sway. Just seems a lot of AS owners have taken this risk. My sense is that I could try it and if I found a difference I could always fall back to the Fiamma and remove the Torklift receiver. A bit expensive but if you are buying an AS I don't think you are really pinching pennies.

I will probably call CanAmRV again.

[BikeCamper]

Originally Posted by NorrisRM

….

I fully understand that a receiver bike rack extends the weight further out from the rear of the AS creating more of a danger of causing sway. Just seems a lot of AS owners have taken this risk. My sense is that I could try it and if I found a difference I could always fall back to the Fiamma and remove the Torklift receiver. A bit expensive but if you are buying an AS I don't think you are really pinching pennies.

I will probably call CanAmRV again.

Not only do many owners take the “risk” of installing a Torklift with no adverse consequences, but a rear receiver used to be an oem option from Airstream.

For anyone seriously into cycling, the Fiamma rack is a non-starter. The 2-bike limit and the inability to move it to the tow vehicle make it a very poor choice. Not to mention that it looks very clunky on the back of an Airstream and on some models impedes access to storage areas. Hard pass.

I like your idea of using some of the Fiamma hard mount points for additional straps. It certainly won’t hurt and likely will offer additional stability.

[NutmegsCamper]

If it were me, I'd use the Fiamma on the back of the Airstream since it's the only one approved by Airstream, and then throw a receiver mount unit in the back of my truck to use when we want to take the bikes to a riding location once camper is setup. To me, it's better to be safe than sorry. For us, both of our mountain bikes fit on the back of the AS. The one closest to the trailer has the stem loosened and turned 90 degrees to not be against the glass during travel. We have a RaceFace tailgate pad when we go to riding destinations, and mount the bikes in the back that way. If we had a lesser vehicle, we'd go with a hitch mounted bike rack like the Kuat NV2.0. There are always options.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by NutmegsCamper

If it were me, I'd use the Fiamma on the back of the Airstream since it's the only one approved by Airstream, and then throw a receiver mount unit in the back of my truck to use when we want to take the bikes to a riding location once camper is setup. To me, it's better to be safe than sorry. For us, both of our mountain bikes fit on the back of the AS. The one closest to the trailer has the stem loosened and turned 90 degrees to not be against the glass during travel. We have a RaceFace tailgate pad when we go to riding destinations, and mount the bikes in the back that way. If we had a lesser vehicle, we'd go with a hitch mounted bike rack like the Kuat NV2.0. There are always options.

I agree! When we just had the TREK mountain bikes, the Fiamma was excellent! No movement or concerns; very nice tight and secure. As I mentioned; we had one installed on our last 3 Airstreams without issues. The Ebikes we got, are RAD Expand 5's, and are foldable. Untill I get the upgraded support for holding both Ebikes back there from Fiamma, I just keep one of them folded and store between the twin beds. Really, not a big deal since it is in a plastic bin with wheels on one end. Easy in easy out for overnighters.

When we want to venture out for longer rides using our truck bed, I fold my ebikes and put them in the bed of the truck without issues. Another advantage of using a truck for a TV is easy loading/unloading. I had a Thule with my earlier AS and F150 that I carried in the bed also which we could use with our Treks, but it would not work with my Ebikes so we sold it. Folding them and putting in rear bed works easily for us.

[waninae39]

Give andy at canamrv a call

He can clarify the setup for the firma vs the bumper mount

[jcl]

Originally Posted by NorrisRM

Thanks gypsydad and wawinae39 both for this comment and your contributions on other threads.

This issue about bike racks is about the only thing on which I am still undecided. Decided on things like TV (thanks to CanAmRV), AS FB 27, ProPride Hitch etc but this one still has me scratching my head largely because I can see my wife and I wanting to leave the campsite and drive to a location where we then begin to cycle. That is exactly what we did a couple of years ago in Provence, renting a medium sized SUV at CDG, Paris, driving to Orange, buying a bike rack in Orange and renting bikes and then driving to locations and cycling from those locations. She is an avid cyclist and thinks I probably should get a light electric bike to make sure I can keep up.

Having a bike rack that we can put on our TV is a significant advantage. I think this was the deciding factor of Marc Leach of KYD who had bought a Fiamma and then changed his mind and ended up with a Kuat. Both the 1UP and Kuat seem pretty wobbly so I thought adding two U brackets to the structural AS frame and using ratchet straps to secure the bikes would reduce the wobble.

I fully understand that a receiver bike rack extends the weight further out from the rear of the AS creating more of a danger of causing sway. Just seems a lot of AS owners have taken this risk. My sense is that I could try it and if I found a difference I could always fall back to the Fiamma and remove the Torklift receiver. A bit expensive but if you are buying an AS I don't think you are really pinching pennies.

I will probably call CanAmRV again.

It isn't just the weight being carried so far aft. That can be mitigated by balancing other loads on the trailer, and reducing travel speed. Adding horizontal struts (using the revised Fiamma brackets or an aftermarket bracket) makes sense if you do decide to go with a different rack.

Importantly, check that any hitch mounted rack that you look at is rated for travel trailer use. Most bike rack manufacturers have an RV endorsement on some models, but it is often limited to converted vans. The bike rack manufacturers understand how much bike racks move around on trailers. The Kuat model line, for example, excludes travel trailers for all but two specific models, and those are significantly derated for capacity (to approx 40 lbs total).

[BikeCamper]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

I agree! When we just had the TREK mountain bikes, the Fiamma was excellent! No movement or concerns; very nice tight and secure. As I mentioned; we had one installed on our last 3 Airstreams without issues. The Ebikes we got, are RAD Expand 5's, and are foldable. Untill I get the upgraded support for holding both Ebikes back there from Fiamma, I just keep one of them folded and store between the twin beds. Really, not a big deal since it is in a plastic bin with wheels on one end. Easy in easy out for overnighters.

When we want to venture out for longer rides using our truck bed, I fold my ebikes and put them in the bed of the truck without issues. Another advantage of using a truck for a TV is easy loading/unloading. I had a Thule with my earlier AS and F150 that I carried in the bed also which we could use with our Treks, but it would not work with my Ebikes so we sold it. Folding them and putting in rear bed works easily for us.

For those who enjoy cycling (and motorcycling), the bike-rack debate/dilemma is yet another strong argument to favor a pick-up for the tow-vehicle. Pick-ups simply offer more options for dealing with oversized cargo like bikes.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BikeCamper

For those who enjoy cycling (and motorcycling), the bike-rack debate/dilemma is yet another strong argument to favor a pick-up for the tow-vehicle. Pick-ups simply offer more options for dealing with oversized cargo like bikes.

Particularly true for larger/heavier bikes.

The Tern HSD I ride daily is a bit of a hassle to carry with our SUV, but would be fine with a pickup. I wouldn't want to put it on a bumper rack.

We have carried our gravel bikes in our SUV, but they have through axles, so it means taking a front wheel off, and not as easily as with quick releases.

We have used a Thule roof rack with fork mounts (and front wheel carriers) with our sport bikes, our tandem, and our gravel bikes.

Our usual choice has been to take our sport bikes (Cervelo R5, 14 lbs) with a fork mount, standing up in the back of the SUV. We put two fork mounts on a piece of 1x4, and it works well in the SUV or a trailer. And those bikes aren't ones we would want to leave outside in any case. Having them inside (cleaner, more secure) makes sense to us for a longer trip.

[NorrisRM]

Originally Posted by jcl

It isn't just the weight being carried so far aft. That can be mitigated by balancing other loads on the trailer, and reducing travel speed. Adding horizontal struts (using the revised Fiamma brackets or an aftermarket bracket) makes sense if you do decide to go with a different rack.

Importantly, check that any hitch mounted rack that you look at is rated for travel trailer use. Most bike rack manufacturers have an RV endorsement on some models, but it is often limited to converted vans. The bike rack manufacturers understand how much bike racks move around on trailers. The Kuat model line, for example, excludes travel trailers for all but two specific models, and those are significantly derated for capacity (to approx 40 lbs total).

Definitely thought about horizontal struts rather than just ratchet straps to keep bikes away from back of trailer. Not sure how they would work but until we actually buy our AS I think I am getting a little ahead of myself on this.

Interesting comment on Kuat. A little more research required on this. The YouTube videos I reviewed had stated that the Kuat Pro X was "RV Approved". Same for the 1UP Super Duty which indicated it was "RV rated for 150 lbs" (not that we have any plans to have two heavy bikes - my wife's TREK 400 carbon weighs about 20 lbs). The Kuat Transfer 2 which I think has been used by KYD looks like it is subject to a recall.

[NorrisRM]

Originally Posted by jcl

It isn't just the weight being carried so far aft. That can be mitigated by balancing other loads on the trailer, and reducing travel speed. Adding horizontal struts (using the revised Fiamma brackets or an aftermarket bracket) makes sense if you do decide to go with a different rack.

Importantly, check that any hitch mounted rack that you look at is rated for travel trailer use. Most bike rack manufacturers have an RV endorsement on some models, but it is often limited to converted vans. The bike rack manufacturers understand how much bike racks move around on trailers. The Kuat model line, for example, excludes travel trailers for all but two specific models, and those are significantly derated for capacity (to approx 40 lbs total).

I went to my trusty Chat GPT 4.0 (which isn't so trusty) which said the Kuat Piston Pro X bike rack 2-inch receiver version is approved for travel trailers provided that:
1. Receiver hitch is directly attached to the RV's chassis, not merely to the bumper.
2. Bike rack should only be in its 2-bike configuration.
These stipulations are outlined in "Kuat's RV Compatiblity Warning".

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have the sneaking suspicion that this qualification excludes use of the Torklift Receiver. From what I can tell from videos it is attached to the AS bumper which does not seem to be part of the chassis.

Just checked. Same limitation applies to the 1UP Super Duty hitch according to Chat GPT.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by NorrisRM

I went to my trusty Chat GPT 4.0 (which isn't so trusty) which said the Kuat Piston Pro X bike rack 2-inch receiver version is approved for travel trailers provided that:
1. Receiver hitch is directly attached to the RV's chassis, not merely to the bumper.
2. Bike rack should only be in its 2-bike configuration.
These stipulations are outlined in "Kuat's RV Compatiblity Warning".

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have the sneaking suspicion that this qualification excludes use of the Torklift Receiver. From what I can tell from videos it is attached to the AS bumper which does not seem to be part of the chassis.

Just checked. Same limitation applies to the 1UP Super Duty hitch according to Chat GPT.

The reason that they are specifying chassis mounted receivers is because otherwise they can flex, the rack and bikes can bounce, and the stresses on the rack are much higher. You can mitigate that somewhat with horizontal struts as the Fiamma uses, as these restrict the motion. You can also decide to only carry 20 lb bikes instead of 40 lb bikes (it is already derated from 60 lbs or so).

Your call, but the take away is that the rack manufacturers understand very well that mounting a bike rack on the back of a travel trailer is not without its challenges.

Have you thought of the AS27 with a hatch? Doesn't address getting the bikes to the riding area once camped, but it does address a lot of other issues. And you could always have a very simple bike rack along with you to use just once you are unhitched.

[waninae39]

we carry two ebikes in the rear of our FC 25FB with a hatch

its easy to make an inside holder for the bikes

many posting about how to make and mount them in this forum

[BikeCamper]

Originally Posted by NorrisRM

…

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have the sneaking suspicion that this qualification excludes use of the Torklift Receiver. From what I can tell from videos it is attached to the AS bumper which does not seem to be part of the chassis...

I believe you are mistaken here. I have watched the installation video and by all appearances the Torklift receiver is hard-mounted into the rear of the trailer frame.

If so equipped, the Airstream bumper and bumper storage bin are mounted to the frame in the same general area. That is why in some places you have to gain access to the trailer frame from the inside of the bumper storage box. Some Airstreams don’t even have the bumper or storage bin, and the Torklift would install in the same location on the frame.

[NorrisRM]

Thanks everyone.

The Torklift receiver is rated to 450 lbs and looks like it is bolted on to two iron plates that themselves are welded on to the chassis of the AS. The bumper itself is attached to these two plates unless I am mistaken. I am going to have to stick my head under a 27 FB at our local AS dealer and see if I am right.

Again, referencing KYD (only because Marc Leach seems pretty knowledgeable), he had what looked like a 4" x 4" hollow iron bar (about 1/2" in thickness) welded between these two plates with the receiver hole cut in the bar and the receiver welded in. He has a video showing the welder with the sparks flying so I am positive as to where it is located.

The Torklift receiver bar looks pretty solid including the method of its attachment to these two plates.

It would be nice to hear from someone who had the Torklift installed. It seems specifically designed for the larger Airstreams but it would be nice to have some comments from someone who had it installed. I think this was the hope of the original OP.

The "safe course" is clearly either buy a Fiamma or stow the bikes in the AS given that we are committed to an SUV for our TV (I will not go off thread by getting into that).

[tbrowne]

Here's video of a Torklift hitch being installed on an Airstream by Thirteen Adventures. I have one on my 30' FC and I haul one light weight bike. Others can make their own choice on whether or not to use this hitch, but I like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y90hpQjWciU&t=307s

[NorrisRM]

Originally Posted by tbrowne

Here's video of a Torklift hitch being installed on an Airstream by Thirteen Adventures. I have one on my 30' FC and I haul one light weight bike. Others can make their own choice on whether or not to use this hitch, but I like it.

Thanks very much. Although Brad calls it a "bumper hitch" (ie "not good" vis a vis Kuat warning about "bumper hitches") it is pretty clear that he has attached it to the "frame rail" which is clearly part of the frame of the AS. He shows a pic of the frame member of an AS which caused the difficulty in placing the bolts inside the frame.

This Torklift has clearly been engineered to fit on Airstreams. Seems pretty secure to me. Better video than the one I watched.

Only qualification is that he was provided this Torklift hitch for free from Torklift and does not then discuss any experience he then has with the receiver.

But thanks tbrowne for your experience. Looks pretty good to me.