Silverado EV towing an Airstream

[Mikebrady62]

DrivingDan,
Sounds like you are way more of an expert on EV than most, that includes me. I do however have experience towing SOB TT compared to an Airstream. It is a night and day comparison. It's not that the AS is much lighter in, fact they are usually heavier than most the same length, but they do tow so much easier and stable because of the aerodynamics and low center of gravity. My GPM increased 2-3 mpg (20-30%) with the switch to AS. Someone else had mentioned the Bowlus Road Chief. I do not know for sure but that might be the ultimate EV TT.
Have fun out there in whatever you decide.

[JCWDCW]

Originally Posted by tripppin

you will find this informative. He has also customized his as to be more lightweight and aerodynamic.

https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/post/tes...rado-and-back/

ditto

[jcl]

I also found Andy's blog post very informative and interesting.

As to unhitching, he tracked 41 recharging sessions on his trip, and had to unhitch 8 times, so around 20%.

Our experience over two years, not towing, is that we have never seen a trailer unhitched at a Supercharger. We have seen trailers connected while charging many times. Full disclosure, one Supercharger close to us which we have used is in an underground parkade, so no trailers could enter in any case.

Surprised that the 7 mile descent at 7% with a 27 foot trailer didn't require any brake application, the regen handled it all automatically.

As to trailer modifications, I know he removed the roof mounted AC to reduce drag. Can the experts advise whether it is practical to install a split AC system (as Bowlus uses) or not?

[DrivingDan]

Originally Posted by HoffmanP

You might find it better to get a covered wagon pulled by oxen. The range will be similar and the grass along the highways is free.

That’s funny. Also reminds me of what the hay burners said around 1900 when dissing fossil burners because they (actually) had no range and gas stations literally didn’t exist. Of course we know how that turned out.

Originally Posted by m rafferty

You may want to check September issue of Car and Driver, they do a good comparison of towing with three of the EV trucks. As mentioned previously, you can cut range in half when towing a 6,000lb trailer. Granted, they did it at 70mph but on flat roads. Throw in a few mountains and even at 55 to 60mph the numbers are going to be closer to a reduction in range of 50%.

Yeah exactly, have seen that. There’s another aspect of this I haven’t talked about which is I can’t even get the truck until 2024 with my reservation. And I won’t retire until 2025, and the first few years will plenty busy driving the West Coast. Then in 2026, 500-630 mile Ultium should be available (according to their road map which may be delayed), and meanwhile billions more will have been poured into charging infrastructure. So I think it may well be a moot point by the time I get there.

Originally Posted by fraslin

we tow a 16' Bambi with a Telsa Model Y and think 25% reduction from towing is greatly under estimating it. I think you will be closer to 40-50% from the wind resistance. This is what we see and also not far off from the reduction in towing with a gas fueled truck.

That Tesla is certainly aerodynamic so that’s meaningful. But you know, if that means I have to stop twice in a day that’s no hardship, it’s the journey not the destination for us.

Originally Posted by greenflag

Go to youtube and search for the fast lane truck and fast lane ev.
They have towing tests with electric F-150 and Rivian.

Yeah I watch those guys (even the fossil videos!), to be fair they do torture tests

Originally Posted by field & stream

While towing at 55 mph will significantly improve range for all tow vehicles, on interstate highways it introduces serious discomfort and risk. Most of the interstates in the west are posted at 75-80, the 18 wheelers are doing that, and a lot of cars and trucks are doing +10.

I normally draft in my EV just for fun - Chevy gives you a braking time measurement on the instrument console. Would I do that with a trailer? Dunno

Originally Posted by bobzdar

What size trailer are you looking at? That will depend on whether an airstream is a good choice.

I’d love a 23” Flying Cloud with front bunks and desk. It’s $$ too … but we’re looking at either an Escape fiberglass egg (Chevy) or an Airstream (Cadillac)

Originally Posted by Mikebrady62

It's not that the AS is much lighter in, fact they are usually heavier than most the same length, but they do tow so much easier and stable because of the aerodynamics and low center of gravity. My GPM increased 2-3 mpg (20-30%) with the switch to AS. Someone else had mentioned the Bowlus Road Chief. I do not know for sure but that might be the ultimate EV TT.

That’s good to know. Also I’m getting the rear wheel steer option on the Silverado which also accounts for towing. The chief engineer hasn’t said exactly what that means, but I would believe it detects and counteracts fish tailing, and also helps with turning.

Our experience over two years, not towing, is that we have never seen a trailer unhitched at a Supercharger. We have seen trailers connected while charging many times. Full disclosure, one Supercharger close to us which we have used is in an underground parkade, so no trailers could enter in any case.

Oh thats interesting. Yeah we drive a Chevy Bolt so outside of Tesla there hasn’t been much trailering to compare. But the Silverado is a damn long vehicle - 19’5” (I have a 20’ garage and don’t know if it’ll fit!), add on another 25’ and it’s turning into a looong set up.

Surprised that the 7 mile descent at 7% with a 27 foot trailer didn't require any brake application, the regen handled it all automatically.

Isn’t it amazing? The control authority with electric is why I’m open to this. I traveled all over the West Coast, BC and Alaska with my Dad fishing when younger and learned to hate trailering a boat with ICE. I’m only doing it now because of that greater control you get up and down hill.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

That’s good to know. Also I’m getting the rear wheel steer option on the Silverado which also accounts for towing. The chief engineer hasn’t said exactly what that means, but I would believe it detects and counteracts fish tailing, and also helps with turning.

RWS aids in handling, stability and maneuverability. Typically, it's designed to turn the rear wheels a few degrees in the opposite direction from the fronts at speeds under about 30mph to provide better low speed handling response and a smaller turning circle.

At speeds above around 50mph it turns the rear wheels in the same direction as the fronts to aid higher speed stability. Fishtailing is usually handled by stability control systems which utilize ABS to apply individual brakes and electronic throttle control to modulate engine speed.

If Chevy has found a way to incorporate RWS into control of the trailer and fishtailing at speeds that are normally outside the ranges I mentioned above, and have it operate independent of driver steering input, it would be interesting to know how they make that work.

[CWSWine]

First I think a hybrid would be fun and love to own if they had around a 100 mile range on electric before switch to gas but I’m not in the total EV camp. Has anyone read the warranty on battery replacement? The one I read at the 8 year mark it has to less than 50% of its capacity to be replaced under warranty. It would be a real gamble to purchase one that the battery was out of warranty or about to go out warranty because replacement cost could be more than the car is worth.

Below is repair bill on a Volt that battery replace is more than the worth of the vehicle so becomes like a toaster - throw it way and by a new one. I have asked about cost of replace battery's and the all I get is "They are under warranty for X number of years so don't worry about it".

[Daquenzer]

I tow a 28’ AS. Dry weight is about 5800 lbs. I get better gas mileage than when I pull my 7’ tall cargo trailer even when the trailer is empty. Dry weight isn’t close to my AS.

As to convincing you to buy an AS that you will have to do on your own by looking at different brands. It was an easy decision for us.

[Daquenzer]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

First I think a hybrid would be fun and love to own if they had around a 100 mile range on electric before switch to gas but I’m not in the total EV camp. Has anyone read the warranty on battery replacement? The one I read at the 8 year mark it has to less than 50% of its capacity to be replaced under warranty. It would be a real gamble to purchase one that the battery was out of warranty or about to go out warranty because replacement cost could be more than the car is worth.

Below is repair bill on a Volt that battery replace is more than the worth of the vehicle so becomes like a toaster - throw it way and by a new one. I have asked about cost of replace battery's and the all I get is "They are under warranty for X number of years so don't worry about it".

This is a very big concern to me. What happens if you own a vehicle and 5 or 10 years from now they don’t make the battery any longer? Or it costs $14,000 to replace, more than the vehicles worth? That happened with a couple in Florida. Car was useless.

And I just read where a Tesla owner in Canada needs to pay $26,000 to replace the battery on a car built in 2013. YIKES!!

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...hanges-battery

I’ll let the early adopters work through the kinks in the system.

As to whether to tow an AS or SOB; EV, gas, or diesel I’ll take the AS.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

First I think a hybrid would be fun and love to own if they had around a 100 mile range on electric before switch to gas but I’m not in the total EV camp. Has anyone read the warranty on battery replacement? The one I read at the 8 year mark it has to less than 50% of its capacity to be replaced under warranty. It would be a real gamble to purchase one that the battery was out of warranty or about to go out warranty because replacement cost could be more than the car is worth.

Below is repair bill on a Volt that battery replace is more than the worth of the vehicle so becomes like a toaster - throw it way and by a new one. I have asked about cost of replace battery's and the all I get is "They are under warranty for X number of years so don't worry about it".

If you look up that part number you can see that it is discontinued, and the new part number has a much lower price. Internet scare tactics.

https://www.gmpartsonline.net/oem-pa...embly-20979876

[mikeinca]

For anyone who wants to know why these EV towing threads usually go off the rails, it's already begun in this one. People start posting the reasons why EVs won't work for them as a TV, how expensive it is to replace batteries, how you may have to unhook to charge, how EVs don't have enough range etc., etc. Then EV owners and defenders step in to refute those claims and the arguments and counter arguments begin.

For once, maybe we could stay on topic. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think the OP is that interested in all the reasons why people think an EV won't work for him as a TV. He's already given the matter some thought, is an experienced EV owner, has ordered a Silverado EV and wants to tow with it. His question for the group is whether an Airstream would be a good TT to pair with his new truck when it arrives. If we could stick with that and not plough over old ground regarding this subject, we can avoid conflict and maybe this thread won't get closed prematurely like most of the other EV towing threads.

Just a thought...

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

First I think a hybrid would be fun and love to own if they had around a 100 mile range on electric before switch to gas but I’m not in the total EV camp. Has anyone read the warranty on battery replacement? The one I read at the 8 year mark it has to less than 50% of its capacity to be replaced under warranty. It would be a real gamble to purchase one that the battery was out of warranty or about to go out warranty because replacement cost could be more than the car is worth.

Below is repair bill on a Volt that battery replace is more than the worth of the vehicle so becomes like a toaster - throw it way and by a new one. I have asked about cost of replace battery's and the all I get is "They are under warranty for X number of years so don't worry about it".

This “quote” has gone viral. There are plenty of real world examples at a fraction of that cost. Check dealership quotes for a new engine or transmission. The one in my pickup is $30,000.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by DrivingDan

Hello,
I’m a long time EV driver and now have a Silverado reservation, and looking for a trailer. Maybe an Airstream? Anyhow I think the Silverado with 400+ mi range is the first serious towing EV. We’ve traveled all over the US in our EV and charging infrastructure is just exponentially grown recently with more coming online daily. But towing is another thing … so I’ve been running scenarios.

Here’s my use case

• Range 400+ miles
• Usable range 20%-80% 240 miles
• Avg towing loss of 25% 180 miles
• Time between charges @55MPH 3.3 hours
• GVWR 5k with aero trailer (Airstream)
• Charge stops per 4-5 hour driving day one

I’ve been route planning and looks like fast charging isn’t turning out to be a problem, except some corridors such as the Natchez Trace Drive in Mississippi, for example, means Level 2 charging (dearth of public DC fast charging). The 25% loss is a good estimate given the other parameters of weight, aero and most importantly the max speed of 55-60 which is fine by me. The one issue is charging isn’t tow vehicle friendly, but GM is deploying their Ultium network across Flying J travel centers that will be tow friendly. Otherwise I’ll just unhook which is minor trouble.

Ultium II in 2025 will have a range of 500-630 miles which is more than enough, and GM has indicated that battery upgrades could well be a thing since Ultium supports it. If not I’ll just trade up.

So we’ll see, I have time to sit on it, and it’s your job to convince me an AS is the trailer for me

Airstreams are way overpriced and have limitations (no slides etc). Any skin damage is VERY expensive to repair. A lot of the reasons to not buy an EV actually apply to an airstream. Just my $.02 after owning 3 of them.

[Dennis C]

I’m an EV owner and I believe in the technology. My wife drives a Jaguar I-Pace as her daily driver, and it has been a truly fantastic car. We’ve owned it for just over two years. I do not tow with the Jaguar, but my wife and I have enjoyed the EV ownership experience. I agree that the charging infrastructure has improved dramatically over the past few years. Most Walmart Super Centers now have Electrify America Level 3 DC rapid chargers in the parking lot.

The new Silverado looks intriguing from a towing perspective. Before commenting on range, my first questions relate to the traditional towing concerns. What’s the payload capacity of the truck? What about the hitch rating, the GAWR ratings, GCVWR, etc.? Batteries for EVs are heavy. Has Chevy beefed up the suspension and axles to compensate for this, or is the payload rating low as a result of battery weight? The answers to these questions are important and will ultimately impact your choice of trailer. A 23-footer is often close to the maximum limits of a traditional half ton truck, and I’m not sure how an electric truck compares.

As mentioned in a previous post, I think a range reduction of 50% or more is realistic when towing. Several people on these forums and in various truck reviews have reported a roughly 50% reduction in range when towing. In poor weather conditions like high wind, I would expect it to be even worse. Using my gasoline powered GMC truck as a basis for comparison, I tend to see 13 - 15 mpg when towing on flat roads in nice weather. In heavy wind, I’ve seen mileage as low as 6 mpg. That’s a big difference.

Good luck with your decision and I hope it works well for you.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by jcl

If you look up that part number you can see that it is discontinued, and the new part number has a much lower price. Internet scare tactics.

https://www.gmpartsonline.net/oem-pa...embly-20979876

That is not a new battery and is "Battery, Refurbished Battery" and comes with a 12 month warranty.

I ask two Ford dealers what is the cost of battery that is used in F150 and seems that the information is not available. I was going to by a Jeep 4XE Hybrid and didn't because of the warranty and they couldn't tell my replacement battery cost.

[Airtandem]

You mention tow ability and quality of construction; Check with Ray Eckland (he is on Forum) he has had multiple Airstreams and jus bought an OLIVER. HE DOESN'T HAVE AN EV.

[BT2513]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

That is not a new battery and is "Battery, Refurbished Battery" and comes with a 12 month warranty.

I ask two Ford dealers what is the cost of battery that is used in F150 and seems that the information is not available. I was going to by a Jeep 4XE Hybrid and didn't because of the warranty and they couldn't tell my replacement battery cost.

To be fair, I checked the price of the 3.6L gas engine on an Impala and they only sell remanufactured engines direct with the same 12 month warranty. The battery is roughly $2k more. A dealer may have access to brand new parts but the reality is that if I were looking for a replacement engine/battery on a vehicle of that age, I'd probably be fine with a refurbished/remanufactured part. The future of EVs will include recycled batteries.

[Dennis C]

It’s important to note that not all EV batteries are designed to be replaced as a whole unit. My Jaguar has a battery that is comprised of hundreds of small cells that can be replaced individually if necessary. The dealership can pinpoint defective or underperforming cells with a diagnostic computer and replace only those cells. I believe Tesla batteries are similar in construction.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

This “quote” has gone viral. There are plenty of real world examples at a fraction of that cost. Check dealership quotes for a new engine or transmission. The one in my pickup is $30,000.

I take it that was a diesel engine replacement since gas engine wouldn't be that much. I know several people that are delivering RV to dealerships that have Rams diesels over 1,000,0000 miles on the same engine. I haven't heard of any million mile EV so the return on investment for the diesel engine replacement is several times what it would be for battery.

I firm believer in Hybrids and would own one in heartbeat but thy not at the level I think they should be YET just not board with a electric only car.

[BT2513]

I don't think the ICE vs EV debate applies to this thread as OP has already decided they are going the EV route.

[CWSWine]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

As mentioned in a previous post, I think a range reduction of 50% or more is realistic when towing. Several people on these forums and in various truck reviews have reported a roughly 50% reduction in range when towing. In poor weather conditions like high wind, I would expect it to be even worse. Using my gasoline powered GMC truck as a basis for comparison, I tend to see 13 - 15 mpg when towing on flat roads in nice weather. In heavy wind, I’ve seen mileage as low as 6 mpg. That’s a big difference.

Good luck with your decision and I hope it works well for you.

I have notice my lithium batteries will charge from say 20% to 80% quite fast but seems that from 80% to 100% takes 6 to 10 hours at slower rate. I did a little research and found the information below that EV manufacture rate charge time at 20% to 80%. That 50% would be from 100% correct? Would the charging on the road while towing would be limit to closer to the 80% number which would reduce range?

I don't own a EV but just week or so I almost bought a Jeep 4XE and still thinking about it.

You might have noticed that most manufacturers will tell you how long it takes to charge from 0-80%. This is because as the battery reaches near capacity, the rate of charging slows down significantly.*
But don’t worry - you don’t have to charge until 100% every time. Sure, it will mean you have to recharge more frequently - but EV manufacturers actually recommend that you stick to between 20-80% charge as much as you can, as this will help to maximise your battery’s longevity.

https://www.leasefetcher.co.uk/guide...n-electric-car