Rough ride in rear of trailer

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by stevejones

Thanks Ray.

Found this on the Goodyear RV tires site at https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/tire...n-loading.aspx

"IMPORTANT: It's a common practice for RV owners to lower tire pressure in their search for a smoother ride. This is not only dangerous, it's relatively ineffective, as the difference in ride quality is not significant. When minimum inflation pressure requirements are not met, tire durability and optimum operating conditions are compromised. Tire inflation pressure should always meet at least the minimum guidelines for vehicle weight."

As many have posted here whether or not "it's relatively ineffective" might be argued with...

The tire inflation charts indicate maximum PSI but not minimum that I can see. How do you determine minimum inflation pressure requirements for your tires? Seems like you want to strike a balance between minimum and maximum based on your weight.

Steve

The quote from Goodyear is about lowering the tire pressure below the minimum.

First, it is important to have your rig's WD equipment set up properly. A poor lash-up can put too much load on either the front or rear axles of your trailer.

If you can't weigh each tire, with your trailer loaded for travel, your next best option is to go to a weigh scale and get the weight of your trailer's axles. If you divide by four you will get an approximate weight for each wheel. You should add a minimum of 10% to account for uneven loading of the trailer. Now, look in the inflation/load table for your tire size and read across to the weight you have calculated. Go to the top of the chart and you will see the recommended PSI.

[stevejones]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

The quote from Goodyear is about lowering the tire pressure below the minimum.

Thanks for clarification. But where do I find out what the minimum is? Didn't see it in any on line charts I looked at, don't remember seeing it on the sticker on the trailer (our trailer is currently at the AS factory service center so can't look at it, should the minimum be on this sticker?)... Is it on the tire itself?

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

If you can't weigh each tire, with your trailer loaded for travel, your next best option is to go to a weigh scale and get the weight of your trailer's axles.

Great, one last newbie question (and my apologies for hijacking this thread). When doing this, I assume you are pulling the trailer onto the scale far enough to pull the TV off the scale, so that only the wheels of the AS are on the scale, and not unhitching. Is that correct?

Thanks,

Steve

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by stevejones

Thanks for clarification. But where do I find out what the minimum is? Didn't see it in any on line charts I looked at, don't remember seeing it on the sticker on the trailer (our trailer is currently at the AS factory service center so can't look at it, should the minimum be on this sticker?)... Is it on the tire itself?



Great, one last newbie question (and my apologies for hijacking this thread). When doing this, I assume you are pulling the trailer onto the scale far enough to pull the TV off the scale, so that only the wheels of the AS are on the scale, and not unhitching. Is that correct?

Thanks,

Steve

The minimum PSI is what you see on the table for your specific weight. What you see on the placards or tire are maximum.

A CAT scale has a separate platform for your tow vehicle front and one for your rear axles and another platform for the trailer axles. You should go over the scales without your WD engaged and then do a re-weigh with the WD engaged. This will provide you with information about how well your WD is set up as well as the weight on your trailer axles.

[guskmg]

Check load vs. tire pressure, already mentioned. Try a hitch with round tapered bars. Use rigid rather than chains as that provides spring action in both directions. Try an air cushioned hitch. Personally, I use a full air ride suspension system. You may have to spend some money, but in the long run your trailer will love you. Freeway “jounce” due to poorly based concrete slabs on the interstates are always going to be a problem depending on your TV/TT distance between all the axles and the length combination.
Don’t give up, you can make it ride better.
guskmg

[ROBERT CROSS]

Thats a lot of tries...😉

IMO..

First... get what you got working to it's design best and decide if you need better.
With a Ford 150,(still use it?) I don't believe you need any of the 'air' options.
There are many folks with a similar set-up, no reason you can't get it as good as they did.

Bob
🇺🇸

[mykytiukr]

The most likely cause of this is over inflated tires. Check the load rating on your tires. Should say something like 3000 lbs at 50 psi or whatever. At 50 psi on 4 tires this would be the proper psi if there was 12000 lbs on those 4 tires. Probably there is closer to 6000 lbs on those 4 tires. Instead of 50 psi put them down to about 30 or even a little less. On my Tradewind with 4 tires there is about 4000 lbs on them. I run 28 psi. 4 years and about 15000 miles with no problems and nothing shaken apart.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by stevejones

Hi Gypsydad, interesting post. The chart you posted has "usage" of "single". If you have dual wheels on your AS is there a different chart to be used?

I have TP inflated to 80 PSI which is what is on the sticker on the side of my AS. I was advised by the dealer to always inflate to 80. Perhaps this is too high? After our last tow pillows and stuff were on the floor when we stopped.

We have a TPMS but I haven't installed it yet. Will install before our next long tow. Perhaps I should reduce the TP as well.

Steve

Steve- IMHO and likely many more experts here....your tires should be around 45-50PSI I believe...surely not 80 for the Goodyear Endurance tires... Weigh your rig, check the axel weights loaded and overall weight divided by 4 to start. If you want to weigh each wheel (big hassle to me and overkill??) If it were me, I would get the scale numbers at a truck stop...costs <$20.00...divide by 4, and you will likely see you are somewhere around 40-50 PSI according to the Goodyear charts...adjust the pressure, go on a trip....enjoy!

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Hicks3456

I have a 2018 - 27' Flying Cloud with front bedroom. My issue is the ride in the rear of the trailer is so rough it literally ripped the table off it's hinges. Anything left in the rear is bounced all over the place anytime we move the trailer.

I have checked and the trailer is level when towing. The dealer checked the shocks and all looks good. Is this just the norm for the Airstream? Is there something that can be done to dampen out the ride in the rear?

While there are things you can do to mitigate the problem the rear end of any trailer will bounce around a lot more than the front. That is one draw back of a front BR, it locates your cabinets with all the drawers with the junk in them and galley in the rear.

[rmkrum]

Yup.

And the most fun part is the drawers in my rig are in a desk in the back, and hard stops used to completely unload the drawer from off the slides, and drop it on the floor.

Solved that with baby-safe straps on the two drawers to keep them shut..

[16595]

After several years of dithering, I purchased an "Air-Safe" hitch. It allows the hitch end of the trailer a bit of leeway in how it follows the bouncing of the tow vehicle. As mentioned earlier, motion of the rear end of the trailer is doubled (approximately) because of the rigidity of the hitch ball vertical travel and the distance to the back of the trailer being approx. 2x the length of the hitch ball to trailer axle distance.

The air safe hitch (rides on an air bag) allows the trailer to do a little more of its own thing. Having run a couple thousand miles with it, I am happy with the result.

I am running my Endurance tires at 70#, but based on the above discussion it appears that I should be at 65 for my 31' Classic.

I second all the above advice.

[BillfromWI]

Hicks3456,

My advice is get weighed at a certified scale to know what you are actually working with and then decide what to do. I have pasted, below, an earlier post from me that I think is relevant. I hope you find it helpful. It reads a bit disjointed because the tread it was posted to is not here.

I doubt your problem is over inflated tires. I have been running Michelin LTX M/S LT225/75R16 tires on Ultra aluminum wheels on my 25 at 65 PSI since before we towed to Alaska. As noted below, the trailer ride with my GMC 2500 and Andersen hitch is problem-free.

Earlier post follows:


I’ve commented to a number or threads about the tongue weight of our FC25FB. Here follows one of them. I added the weight abbreviation definitions if case you are not familiar with them.

Airstream’s specified tongue weight for our 25 is 837 lbs. and that is what used to spec the tow vehicle I ordered for it. Unfortunately 837 is a bit short of the truth.

I think I could easily have made the Blue Ox work with the GMC but for the reasons I’ve mentioned I like the Andersen better. I bought the Blue Ox because I was trying to keep the Ford but when that didn’t work as I’d hoped I decided to walk away from it, partly because we were going on the WBCCI Alaska caravan. I’m very glad I made the change. Others on that caravan suffered falling upper cabinets, moving lower cabinets, moving walls, sheared wheel studs, and a dropped water tank. We had none of that.

I’m convinced that about half the rigs out there are overloaded in one way or another and nobody worries. I wondered about that until a conversation with a campground owner at our local RV show. He said that 85% of RV tows are 80 miles or less and the average campground stay for those tows is a week--most trailers don’t go very far and they are on good roads. That’s not us.

GAWR Gross Axle Weight Rating
GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GCWR Gross Combined Weight Rating



We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with factory solar (52 lb. Lifeline batteries). The tongue weight is 1252 lbs. loaded for a three week trip and with an Andersen hitch (less than 60 lbs.), and about 75% propane and 50% water. Add about 7 lbs. for the missing propane. Add 150 lbs. for the missing water, but most of that would be on the axles. The 1252 lb. weight is from the Airstream production line scale—I had them weight it while I was there for warranty work.

My first TV was a 2013 F-150: Steer GAWR 3,900, Drive GAWR 4,050, GVWR 7,700, Max Trailer WR 11,300, GCWR 16,900, and Cargo WR 2,000.

My first hitch was an Andersen that I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. Certified scale weights are shown here:

Unhitched: Steer 3,500, Drive 3,340
Andersen Hitch: Steer 3,120, Drive 4,900, Trailer 5,600
Blue Ox Hitch, 1,500 lb. bars, zero links showing: Steer 3,500, Drive 4,140, Trailer 5,860

As can be seen the drive axle was over loaded with either hitch. I could have lived with 100 lbs. over with the Blue Ox however the trailer ride was apparently smooth with the Andersen but I think the Blue Ox setup would have shaken it apart.

The Ford was a great truck but there just wasn’t enough of it. I traded for a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax and reinstalled my Andersen hitch. Nothing is over loaded.

We have been to Alaska and back and throughout Newfoundland (the worst roads in Canada in my opinion) with this rig with no interior damage and minimal cargo rearrangement.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by BillfromWI

Hicks3456,

My advice is get weighed at a certified scale to know what you are actually working with and then decide what to do. I have pasted, below, an earlier post from me that I think is relevant. I hope you find it helpful. It reads a bit disjointed because the tread it was posted to is not here.

I doubt your problem is over inflated tires. I have been running Michelin LTX M/S LT225/75R16 tires on Ultra aluminum wheels on my 25 at 65 PSI since before we towed to Alaska. As noted below, the trailer ride with my GMC 2500 and Andersen hitch is problem-free.

Earlier post follows:


I’ve commented to a number or threads about the tongue weight of our FC25FB. Here follows one of them. I added the weight abbreviation definitions if case you are not familiar with them.

Airstream’s specified tongue weight for our 25 is 837 lbs. and that is what used to spec the tow vehicle I ordered for it. Unfortunately 837 is a bit short of the truth.

I think I could easily have made the Blue Ox work with the GMC but for the reasons I’ve mentioned I like the Andersen better. I bought the Blue Ox because I was trying to keep the Ford but when that didn’t work as I’d hoped I decided to walk away from it, partly because we were going on the WBCCI Alaska caravan. I’m very glad I made the change. Others on that caravan suffered falling upper cabinets, moving lower cabinets, moving walls, sheared wheel studs, and a dropped water tank. We had none of that.

I’m convinced that about half the rigs out there are overloaded in one way or another and nobody worries. I wondered about that until a conversation with a campground owner at our local RV show. He said that 85% of RV tows are 80 miles or less and the average campground stay for those tows is a week--most trailers don’t go very far and they are on good roads. That’s not us.

GAWR Gross Axle Weight Rating
GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GCWR Gross Combined Weight Rating



We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with factory solar (52 lb. Lifeline batteries). The tongue weight is 1252 lbs. loaded for a three week trip and with an Andersen hitch (less than 60 lbs.), and about 75% propane and 50% water. Add about 7 lbs. for the missing propane. Add 150 lbs. for the missing water, but most of that would be on the axles. The 1252 lb. weight is from the Airstream production line scale—I had them weight it while I was there for warranty work.

My first TV was a 2013 F-150: Steer GAWR 3,900, Drive GAWR 4,050, GVWR 7,700, Max Trailer WR 11,300, GCWR 16,900, and Cargo WR 2,000.

My first hitch was an Andersen that I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. Certified scale weights are shown here:

Unhitched: Steer 3,500, Drive 3,340
Andersen Hitch: Steer 3,120, Drive 4,900, Trailer 5,600
Blue Ox Hitch, 1,500 lb. bars, zero links showing: Steer 3,500, Drive 4,140, Trailer 5,860

As can be seen the drive axle was over loaded with either hitch. I could have lived with 100 lbs. over with the Blue Ox however the trailer ride was apparently smooth with the Andersen but I think the Blue Ox setup would have shaken it apart.

The Ford was a great truck but there just wasn’t enough of it. I traded for a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax and reinstalled my Andersen hitch. Nothing is over loaded.

We have been to Alaska and back and throughout Newfoundland (the worst roads in Canada in my opinion) with this rig with no interior damage and minimal cargo rearrangement.

I am not sure what your issue was with your set up, but that just sounds all wrong. Blue Ox works fine when set up properly... I have owned 3 25' AS's; front beds and rear beds. I have used Reese, Eazylift, and settled on Blue Ox. The Reese was fine; the Equalizer I had that came on my second 25' AS, they twisted and broke while backing up, so I got the first BlueOx Swaypro with 1000# bars, with only 3.5 links showing...it worked fine for next 2 years. When I got my new 2014 25' AS with my F150 EB, iI also got a new Blue Ox with 1000# bars again, and it worked great for next few years.; only 3.5 links showing, per their recommendation. With my new 28' I had to get the 1500# bars as I was at 1100# tongue weight...and Blue Ox team recommended I go to that size...they were stiff in the beginning, but worked great after a few hundred miles of brake in. (I have 20K miles now on the AS).

I had a little porposing feeling at first in my TV, until I called the Blue Ox team, and talked with them. They said I had the chains too loose with 5.5 links showing; they told me to try 4.5 links showing or 3.5 links might be ideal...4.5 works great; no problems since I set up this way. Front and rear fenders are same loaded or unloaded with the AS and Blue Ox with this set up at 4.5 links.

I am just wondering how you could have had no links showing with your F150 and a 25'...

Now getting back to OP...I will bet $10 the problem he is having with the Endurance ST tires is air pressure...he said he has them filled to 70psi from the dealer...this is a 27' AS...I had same problem when I got my new Endurance tires few months back...dealer filled to 70psi...lost rivets and hinge screws on first trips...read on the Forum here, the pressures should be set to trailer weight...which turned out to be 40-50PSI...doubt it's the hitch...just saying...easy to check out by reducing the pressure and taking a drive...

[The Ice Man]

Thanks, all, and especially gypsydad for the inflation guide. We were in Austin for the past couple of weeks and it is WET! We too have had bad stretches of road in almost every state where everything ended up on the floor, including the sink cover.

According to your table our 27FB, which runs about 1500 lbs per tire according to Escapee's SmartWeight program, would be safe running far less than the 80 lbs sidewall label. But I recall Tireman9 telling us that ST tires should always be run at max sidewall pressure. The "etrailer.com" website says the same thing.

I can't find the Tireman9 thread, so I throw it out for all: Do we go with the inflation table, or do we stick to the max pressure?

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by The Ice Man

Thanks, all, and especially gypsydad for the inflation guide. We were in Austin for the past couple of weeks and it is WET! We too have had bad stretches of road in almost every state where everything ended up on the floor, including the sink cover.

According to your table our 27FB, which runs about 1500 lbs per tire according to Escapee's SmartWeight program, would be safe running far less than the 80 lbs sidewall label. But I recall Tireman9 telling us that ST tires should always be run at max sidewall pressure. The "etrailer.com" website says the same thing.

I can't find the Tireman9 thread, so I throw it out for all: Do we go with the inflation table, or do we stick to the max pressure?

Why would you want ‘internet forum wisdom’ over the manufacturer’s published inflation table?

[The Ice Man]

Good point. That's why it's in the mix.

[PKI]

Post in another thread says OP's hitch is Equal-i-zer.
Tow vehicle seems to be an F150 as he mentioned Ecoboost on that other thread.
Can't find the air pressure setting.

[aftermath]

Yep, just listen to the experts here and you will always be fine.


Regarding ST tires, the conventional wisdom shared by the tire engineers is that by reducing air pressure you will increase sidewall flex. Increasing flex will increase heat and it is heat that destroys these tires.


We just got back from a 4500 mile trip through MT, ND, up into Canada, then back into MN, WI, NE, WY and then back through MT, ID to WA.


We traveled some very crummy roads most of which were the cement sectioned variety although the high line in Montana was under construction and was not a pretty thing.



We had some shaking, a few cushions on the floor and a bulletin board came off the mounts. Nothing broken and no open drawers. I was running 70 in my tires and will continue to do that to avoid the over heated issues. I think the OP who has gone underground has a different issue than just air pressure. I would check the weights and the hitch AND make sure the tires are all balanced. After that it sounds like a real mystery.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by BillfromWI

Hicks3456,

My advice is get weighed at a certified scale to know what you are actually working with and then decide what to do. I have pasted, below, an earlier post from me that I think is relevant. I hope you find it helpful. It reads a bit disjointed because the tread it was posted to is not here.

I doubt your problem is over inflated tires. I have been running Michelin LTX M/S LT225/75R16 tires on Ultra aluminum wheels on my 25 at 65 PSI since before we towed to Alaska. As noted below, the trailer ride with my GMC 2500 and Andersen hitch is problem-free.

Earlier post follows:


I’ve commented to a number or threads about the tongue weight of our FC25FB. Here follows one of them. I added the weight abbreviation definitions if case you are not familiar with them.

Airstream’s specified tongue weight for our 25 is 837 lbs. and that is what used to spec the tow vehicle I ordered for it. Unfortunately 837 is a bit short of the truth.

I think I could easily have made the Blue Ox work with the GMC but for the reasons I’ve mentioned I like the Andersen better. I bought the Blue Ox because I was trying to keep the Ford but when that didn’t work as I’d hoped I decided to walk away from it, partly because we were going on the WBCCI Alaska caravan. I’m very glad I made the change. Others on that caravan suffered falling upper cabinets, moving lower cabinets, moving walls, sheared wheel studs, and a dropped water tank. We had none of that.

I’m convinced that about half the rigs out there are overloaded in one way or another and nobody worries. I wondered about that until a conversation with a campground owner at our local RV show. He said that 85% of RV tows are 80 miles or less and the average campground stay for those tows is a week--most trailers don’t go very far and they are on good roads. That’s not us.

GAWR Gross Axle Weight Rating
GVWR Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GCWR Gross Combined Weight Rating



We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with factory solar (52 lb. Lifeline batteries). The tongue weight is 1252 lbs. loaded for a three week trip and with an Andersen hitch (less than 60 lbs.), and about 75% propane and 50% water. Add about 7 lbs. for the missing propane. Add 150 lbs. for the missing water, but most of that would be on the axles. The 1252 lb. weight is from the Airstream production line scale—I had them weight it while I was there for warranty work.

My first TV was a 2013 F-150: Steer GAWR 3,900, Drive GAWR 4,050, GVWR 7,700, Max Trailer WR 11,300, GCWR 16,900, and Cargo WR 2,000.

My first hitch was an Andersen that I switched to a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars. Certified scale weights are shown here:

Unhitched: Steer 3,500, Drive 3,340
Andersen Hitch: Steer 3,120, Drive 4,900, Trailer 5,600
Blue Ox Hitch, 1,500 lb. bars, zero links showing: Steer 3,500, Drive 4,140, Trailer 5,860

As can be seen the drive axle was over loaded with either hitch. I could have lived with 100 lbs. over with the Blue Ox however the trailer ride was apparently smooth with the Andersen but I think the Blue Ox setup would have shaken it apart.

The Ford was a great truck but there just wasn’t enough of it. I traded for a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax and reinstalled my Andersen hitch. Nothing is over loaded.

We have been to Alaska and back and throughout Newfoundland (the worst roads in Canada in my opinion) with this rig with no interior damage and minimal cargo rearrangement.

The Anderson Hitch has no Sway Control ability at all.
And has very little ability for WD as well. Your assertion that it outperforms the Blue Ox is poppycock. I spent an entire season trying to make am Anderson work. Did all the things the mfg suggested including switching out the trailer hitch. I ended up junking the entire thing and reinstalling the original hitch.

[BillfromWI]

gypsydad and franklyfrank,

I think you both missed my point: No hitch setup is can compensate for an undersized tow vehicle and reduced tire pressure will not compensate for too much weight transfer.

I did not suggest that the Andersen "outperforms" a Blue Ox. I said I liked it better with a well-match rig.

My experience is informed by a lot of time at certified scales. Try it.

[Bill M.]

I guess the OP is not really much interested in our opinions anyway.