Ram 1500 overheating in mountains

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by WherryWillie

Absence of internet, not gratitude accounts for my tardy response.
I got oil changed, but cannot get it in for flush or fan clutch (never thought of that, it does spin).
We will head down from Leadville to Denver Monday, taking it slow.
Thanks for your interest and help.

It should spin almost free cold, as it heats up the resistance increases. Let the engine idle until it gets to op temp, shut off, it should be much harder to spin.
POI...it can fail both ways, a fan 'roar' when cold indicates it's locked.

Bob
🇺🇸

[dznf0g]

Ram still had belt driven viscous clutch in 2016??????

[SandKSmith]

We pull a 25’ FBQ Safari with a 2019 Ram. Towing up the mountains in Az I’ll see oil temps touch 260, tranny temps of 210, and coolant temps of 230 on 6% grades and 100 degree days. I’ve learned to shut off the A/c before we get to that point to keep the oil under 250. Still, in town I’ll see oil temps of 220F on a 97 deg day like today. My synthetic oil says it’s good to 400F.

By the way, Ram 1500s can be had with a reasonable payload. Ours 4x4 1500 is 1740lb.
Steve

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by SandKSmith

We pull a 25’ FBQ Safari with a 2019 Ram. Towing up the mountains in Az I’ll see oil temps touch 260, tranny temps of 210, and coolant temps of 230 on 6% grades and 100 degree days. I’ve learned to shut off the A/c before we get to that point to keep the oil under 250. Still, in town I’ll see oil temps of 220F on a 97 deg day like today. My synthetic oil says it’s good to 400F.

By the way, Ram 1500s can be had with a reasonable payload. Ours 4x4 1500 is 1740lb.
Steve

1740lbs payload on the doorjamb sticker??love to see a picture of the sticker and know year, your engine and trim level. That's extremely unusual to see.(on a RAM 1500 or Tundra)

As for transmission and oil temp cooling if you get the HD Tow package, most 1/2t trucks today have trany and oil coolers with that package. Still, towing a 27' or larger AS with 1/2t may work, but certainly not ideal. A 3/4t-1t is much better match for these size TTs...(IMHO, of course)!

[SandKSmith]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

1740lbs payload on the doorjamb sticker??love to see a picture of the sticker and know year, your engine and trim level. That's extremely unusual to see.(on a RAM 1500 or Tundra)

As for transmission and oil temp cooling if you get the HD Tow package, most 1/2t trucks today have trany and oil coolers with that package. Still, towing a 27' or larger AS with 1/2t may work, but certainly not ideal. A 3/4t-1t is much better match for these size TTs...(IMHO, of course)!

Our Ram is a 2019, Big Horn crew cab, 4x4 with a short box, 3.92 gears, tow package, and the 5.7L Hemi w/o the E Torque. The level 2 packages gets the important stuff, LED Headlights, blind spot sensors , front and rear sensing, decent radio, CarPlay ,dual a/c, etc. No leather, sunroofs, power steps, etc. that stuff is heavy. Leather’s hot in AZ, Sunroofs? I never understood the appeal.

I agree with your suggestion of a larger truck for a 27’ or larger. Like most normally aspirated engines, it starts to run out of steam at 7,000 ft towing. I’m not that sure a gas 2500 would make that much difference-if I recall correctly, there isn’t that much difference in HP or Torque, and I suspect it’s heavier as well. Diesel is probably the way to go there.

[Francesca21]

Not to start “the discussion” but we are all carrying more load than we think with water, and waste, and generators, and more foods, etc, . Once,we moved to Diesel it was all easy no mater what up and down 70 all conditions. Everywhere everyplace. Its really the only way to always be sure.

[Aerowood]

Overheating in the Rockies is pretty common. Driving in the mountains with a high density altitude means less power available. With the reduced power available, towing up steep grades with heavy trailers just taxes the engines cooling. As the engine heats up so does the oil temp. The trans temp also increases accordingly.. Most towing specs are computed at sea level, jump up to 9 or 10 thousand feet and you can throw the towing specs out the window.. Do not tow the steep grades with Cruse control trying to stay at a posted speed limit..I generally tow with the tach and the temp gauge.

[SilverCabin]

I read somewhere that Ford computes their tow ratings assuming a maximum speed of 45 mph when climbing. I've also noticed in my many trips through the mountains that the heavy truckers usually climb at 45 mph. I've been pulling my Airstreams with an F-150 for 14 years now climbing at 45 mph, and so far (knock on wood) never had any overheating problems.

Randy

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Ram still had belt driven viscous clutch in 2016??????

I do believe....and you should be able to get a 'HD' version.

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by SilverCabin

I read somewhere that Ford computes their tow ratings assuming a maximum speed of 45 mph when climbing. I've also noticed in my many trips through the mountains that the heavy truckers usually climb at 45 mph. I've been pulling my Airstreams with an F-150 for 14 years now climbing at 45 mph, and so far (knock on wood) never had any overheating problems.

Randy

Hi

The rest of the story from Ford is that the numbers are at sea level and drop 2% for every 1,000 feet in altitude. Next layer to the onion is that they test over a very specific course (= they only tow uphill so far and over such and such a grade). The grubby details apparently are in a SAE standard somewhere. It does not show up in the normal manual.

Needless to say, there is a *lot* of debate about how much this applies to this or that vehicle Ford makes. There also is an enormous secondary debate about it applying (or not) to other brands.

Lots of confusion and not much clarity (other than on the one truck TFL found the problem on and Ford wrote the letter about ....).

Bob

[Bigde]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I do believe....and you should be able to get a 'HD' version.

Bob
🇺🇸

We all have remember that years ago, with basic tow vehicles like full size sedans and plain Jane trucks with large engines pulled the same size AS up the same hills. Today’s trucks are in some cases double the weight of their vintage ancestors. So double the power doesn’t really mean a lot. Engines are more efficient when vacuum is high, which is a result of higher rpm. The so called sweet spot. Transport trucks all work on this system. You have to forget about how fast you get up the hill, but how efficient you get up the hill.
Bigde

1959 22 ft. Custom

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Bigde

We all have remember that years ago, with basic tow vehicles like full size sedans and plain Jane trucks with large engines pulled the same size AS up the same hills. Today’s trucks are in some cases double the weight of their vintage ancestors. So double the power doesn’t really mean a lot. Engines are more efficient when vacuum is high, which is a result of higher rpm. The so called sweet spot. Transport trucks all work on this system. You have to forget about how fast you get up the hill, but how efficient you get up the hill.
Bigde

1959 22 ft. Custom

Hi

Back in the day, folks blew out all sorts of bits and pieces on their vehicles towing in the mountains at much lower speeds than we now consider normal. Spent a lot of time as a kid in this or that town "waiting for parts" so we could continue on ... As you sat there, you were not the only one in the same situation. Some of those shops must have done *very* well in the summer ....

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Back in the day, folks blew out all sorts of bits and pieces on their vehicles towing in the mountains at much lower speeds than we now consider normal. Spent a lot of time as a kid in this or that town "waiting for parts" so we could continue on ... As you sat there, you were not the only one in the same situation. Some of those shops must have done *very* well in the summer ....

Bob

I have held my tongue on this subject for a long time. For some reason, common internet "knowledge" has become ....if you can't drive up a 6% (or more) grade at 70 or 75 mph, "you don't have enough truck".

This is mechanically false and introduces a lot of potential issues for most tow vehicles.

It is bass ackwards logic.

Speed is the resultant figure for the equation, not the input.

One should go on the net and find the torque curve for their engine. Look at the peak torque RPM for your engine. Then select the RPM which is roughly 10% below that Peak RPM. Select a gear which keeps you at that resultant RPM at approx 3/4 throttle.

This will keep you at a resultant speed which is healthy for your powertrain, relative to economy, durability, cooling, etc.

If you don't have time to go 50 or 55 up a relatively short, steep grade, instead of 75, maybe find another past time??

If you perform this exercise for awhile, it will become second nature and you will recognize when you engine is just breathing well and not huffing its guts out, as opposed to racing beyond peak torque and high RPM.

[RedSHED]

I'd place a side bet on intake manifold temperature. Thin, hot air won't accept as much fuel in the mixture.

High rpm doesn't generate heat, fuel burn does ... if you're pulling 150-200hp at 2k rpm vs 4k, the fuel burn difference will be small, BUT, if the fan is belted to the crank, the fan speed will normally be higher at the higher rpm, doing good things for oil, coolant and transmission.

Unfortunately, without an intercooler, fan speed doesn't do a lot for intake manufold temperature. The classic number is a little more than 0.4 pounds of fuel per horsepower hour. No idea what your hemi burns, but it's not going to be super far from that.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I have held my tongue on this subject for a long time. For some reason, common internet "knowledge" has become ....if you can't drive up a 6% (or more) grade at 70 or 75 mph, "you don't have enough truck".

This is mechanically false and introduces a lot of potential issues for most tow vehicles.

It is bass ackwards logic.

Speed is the resultant figure for the equation, not the input.

One should go on the net and find the torque curve for their engine. Look at the peak torque RPM for your engine. Then select the RPM which is roughly 10% below that Peak RPM. Select a gear which keeps you at that resultant RPM at approx 3/4 throttle.

This will keep you at a resultant speed which is healthy for your powertrain, relative to economy, durability, cooling, etc.

If you don't have time to go 50 or 55 up a relatively short, steep grade, instead of 75, maybe find another past time??

If you perform this exercise for awhile, it will become second nature and you will recognize when you engine is just breathing well and not huffing its guts out, as opposed to racing beyond peak torque and high RPM.

Hi

Many decades ago, 45 to 50 was a "tow speed" on the flat and you dropped back from that in the mountains. You still broke stuff ....

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Many decades ago, 45 to 50 was a "tow speed" on the flat and you dropped back from that in the mountains. You still broke stuff ....

Bob

I know. I just don't understand this high speed or else philosophy. Even though I love diesels from a mechanical standpoint, I just don't see the need for almost anyone to have upwards of 700 HP and 1k torque for any AS. But hey, go ahead, nothing wrong with it, except telling everyone else that they gotta have it or they're gonna die...or something.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I know. I just don't understand this high speed or else philosophy. Even though I love diesels from a mechanical standpoint, I just don't see the need for almost anyone to have upwards of 700 HP and 1k torque for any AS. But hey, go ahead, nothing wrong with it, except telling everyone else that they gotta have it or they're gonna die...or something.

Hi

They likely will not die at 75 MPH going *up* that mountain. The trailer tends to stay behind the TV heading up, regardless of speed. Once they crest the peak at 75 and start accelerating down the other side .... yikes ..... wonder why things feel a bit squarely ... here comes that turn ... off into the abyss

Bob

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

They likely will not die at 75 MPH going *up* that mountain. The trailer tends to stay behind the TV heading up, regardless of speed. Once they crest the peak at 75 and start accelerating down the other side .... yikes ..... wonder why things feel a bit squarely ... here comes that turn ... off into the abyss

Bob

I understand that. I am more referencing the mechanical health of the equipment....in the long term particularly. But a lot of overheating concerns (coolant, engine oil, or trans fluid) could be mitigated by a reasonable RPM, torque load and the resultant speed. For some vehicles, it is OK, but a lot do not have the capacities and cooling capability for their rated max load AND high speed. Owner manuals really don't do a good job in detailing various tow packages and their related performance characteristics.

I am not saying OP's situation is this, but it could be that there is nothing wrong with the truck, but rather, it is being over-taxed....especially with over 100k on the clock.

[stevejones]

Before doing too much you may want to have the fan clutch replaced if you have one. I don't think that is an expensive repair. Failure of this part will cause both engine and transmission to heat up.

Steve

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by stevejones

Before doing too much you may want to have the fan clutch replaced if you have one. I don't think that is an expensive repair. Failure of this part will cause both engine and transmission to heat up.

Steve

At 100k, a fan clutch is a possibility. Also, frequently overlooked, but not uncommon...and very hard to diagnose, is the water pump impeller slipping on its shaft. These are "from a distance, seat of the pants" suggestions though.

Other things at 100k....serpentine belts don't always make noise when they slip, and become glazed and micro-cracked. Radiators become restricted and should be inspected for solder bloom (not an uncommon thing, especially at high miles). Hoses could develop internal layer peeling, restricting flow. Thermostat could be misbehaving and not opening fully. There have been periods of time where coolant formulations have resulted in all kinds of issues. The list could go on relative to Ram specific items (I am not a Ram expert, from a historical product perspective.)