Pulling with BMW X5i

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Piddleplace

Wow. Thank you. I was fearful of the mountain roads. Airstream installed my hitch. Does BMW make other compensation to allow for towing?

I think another condition for getting 7200# tow capacity is that you get 2 axle air suspension and third row seats.

[bono]

That's not correct. However, this would increase the payload. Such car would have ca. 2,000 lbs payload... in Europe BMW NA is playing some payload numbers in the US.

As I mentioned before, the only parts that somebody else tracked down when comparing factory tow package vs. non-tow package car, were rear brakes. If anybody identifies any other differences (without speculating, but checking realoem), I would be glad to learn something new.

Originally Posted by markdoane

I think another condition for getting 7200# tow capacity is that you get 2 axle air suspension and third row seats.

[markdoane]

I stand corrected. You can get 7200# trailer towing with the two row seats, but to get higher rear axle payload you need the three row seats. And you can't get three row seats without 2 axle air suspension.

I tried every way possible to get a two row seat model with higher rear axle payload but was told that can't be done. Need three row seats. Something to do with the rear axle suspension set-up. The extra 150 kg rear axle payload is important to me.

[bono]

I do not know about that. 2-axle air suspension and 2-axle air suspension plus third row appear to be separate, independent options.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by bono

That's not correct. However, this would increase the payload. Such car would have ca. 2,000 lbs payload... in Europe BMW NA is playing some payload numbers in the US.

No games bono, Max Payload in the US is determined through tests based on Federal regulations. BMW must pass all the requirements for the advertised and labeled payloads. All vehicles must have an accurate label.

[bono]

Hahaha, you have answer for everything I appreciate your "expertise" and your "model", but I won't even respond what you just wrote.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

No games bono, Max Payload in the US is determined through tests based on Federal regulations. BMW must pass all the requirements for the advertised and labeled payloads. All vehicles must have an accurate label.

We don't know what was changed for the US rating. Maybe nothing more than a marketing company decision to drive more customers to the new larger X7 and X8 models. I agree that the vehicle must pass the US tests and have an accurate label for the figures it was tested to, but there is nothing stopping the manufacturer from deciding to rate it at a lower figure in a different market, and then testing it only at that figure. Could be due to the inclusion of standard NA tires that are not optimized for autobahn speeds, or an assessment of typical North American driver skill levels, or a number of other things.

That is what I think bono meant by playing games.

[BayouBiker]

In the real world the simplest explanation is the best. Yours presupposes too many unnecessary conditions about customer buying habits and is contradicted by evidence that higher payloads are offered on X5s when reconfigured with a third seat.

[bono]

It appears that you are looking for (simplest) explanations which fit your logic. I believe "your model" cannot provide explanation for everything that is happening.

Higher payload is offered on X5 with 3rd row. 3rd row requires air suspension and the air suspension is the reason for higher payload. You can get X5 with air suspension without 3rd row. Conclusion - higher payload does not require 3rd row.

What evidence are you talking about?

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

In the real world the simplest explanation is the best. Yours presupposes too many unnecessary conditions about customer buying habits and is contradicted by evidence that higher payloads are offered on X5s when reconfigured with a third seat.

[BayouBiker]

Logic and facts do not differ from person to person. jcl posited BMW marketing X7s and X8s explained holding X5 payload down. That is contradicted by BMW not holding payload down on the 3 seat version. It's that simple, Likewise your conclusion does not follow from the limited evidence you provided, it's a false cause, because there are structural alterations to accommodate the third seat and are other valid conclusions to be made. Your conclusion is more complex because it requires an additional explanation as to why BMW didn't raise the payload limit and imposes an inconsistency on their part. Appealing to games is is an argument from ignorance, another logical fallacy.

Returning to towing with an X5 I am gratified to see an honest assessment from direct experience via 1957custom22's report on I-8 in California that supports my tuned model and the BMW NA numbers. 1957custom22 confirms oversteer above 60 and no oversteer below 55.

[bono]

You do not understand it. BMW decreases the payload on any US spec X5. Regardless, whether this is a 3rd row version or not. It is not 3rd option that increases the payload. It is the air suspension. You can compare all of the components of the suspension, chassis, etc. on any BMW model online. "It's that simple".

1957custom22 experience? Based on my towing experience with 33 ft long SOB (which handles not as good as AS), 1957custom22 should not even know that he was towing anything with his 22 ft Airstream in the back. I did not see his hitch setup (neither did you), so why to use his observations to confirm accuracy of your "tuned model"?

Why to post in a thread regarding a vehicle that you never owned and which you won't be using for towing?

[Bgibbs]

Enough is enough! This thread is very tiring. Tow with what you want. Me, I prefer a 3/4 ton diesel, but that's just me. If you want to tow with a Mini Cooper or X whatever, go ahead. Just quit posting to this endless thread.

[Lafitte]

I agree w/Bgibbs.
If OP has enough $ to buy a BMW and an AS , he should have enough $ to get a Proper 3/4 ton truck. Quit

[adamkalins]

In reading through this post, I got passionately emotional about responses. BMW is not conservative about their ratings, they are precise. I have overloaded a BMW X3, hence I have a 5. Next, the tow capacity may be 7k, but you need a hitch for that, and you need to go aftermarket for that. The X5 has plenty of power. The gas X5 has plenty of power. The brakes and handling are fantastic. I purchased the BMW towing module for the canbus, so the traction control can adapt to a tailer to eliminate sway. If it weren't for seeing the trailer in my mirrors, I wouldn't know it's there. The cooling system is important, I think all X5 have a dedicated transmission cooler. Think about altitude. That was my big mistake. The higher up you go, the less oxygen there is. You will see a drop in power in the mountains. That said, if you have the traction control module, your brakes and control going downhill will be fine. Your uphill, I bet you have enough power. Watch that tongue weight, and don't overload the trailer. Happy trails.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by adamkalins

In reading through this post, I got passionately emotional about responses. BMW is not conservative about their ratings, they are precise. I have overloaded a BMW X3, hence I have a 5. Next, the tow capacity may be 7k, but you need a hitch for that, and you need to go aftermarket for that. The X5 has plenty of power. The gas X5 has plenty of power. The brakes and handling are fantastic. I purchased the BMW towing module for the canbus, so the traction control can adapt to a tailer to eliminate sway. If it weren't for seeing the trailer in my mirrors, I wouldn't know it's there. The cooling system is important, I think all X5 have a dedicated transmission cooler. Think about altitude. That was my big mistake. The higher up you go, the less oxygen there is. You will see a drop in power in the mountains. That said, if you have the traction control module, your brakes and control going downhill will be fine. Your uphill, I bet you have enough power. Watch that tongue weight, and don't overload the trailer. Happy trails.

Note that there are multiple generations of each of the X3 and X5, with different powertrains. Your earlier X3 was noted to be a 2.5, which is a naturally aspirated engine and would lose power at altitude, the same as any naturally aspirated engine. A turbocharged engine compensates for altitude, so the power degradation is much less.

My X3 had the 3.0si 260 hp engine, more than most X5 diesels, and more than my X5. It was rated to tow 3500 lbs as that was the rating of the OE receiver; the vehicle was the same weight and size as my earlier X5, but with 35 more hp.

[BayouBiker]

Originally Posted by bono

You do not understand it. BMW decreases the payload on any US spec X5. Regardless, whether this is a 3rd row version or not. It is not 3rd option that increases the payload. It is the air suspension. You can compare all of the components of the suspension, chassis, etc. on any BMW model online. "It's that simple".

Here's a simple and easy to understand idea, use the numbers the experts at BMW use for US roads, speeds and test requirements.

Originally Posted by bono

1957custom22 experience? Based on my towing experience with 33 ft long SOB (which handles not as good as AS), 1957custom22 should not even know that he was towing anything with his 22 ft Airstream in the back. I did not see his hitch setup (neither did you), so why to use his observations to confirm accuracy of your "tuned model"?

If it makes you any happier, I also use your comments where you say it's nuts to tow above 65 mph and the fact you keep your speed to 60 mph and lower to confirm accuracy. I show your set-up with oversteer at about 56 mph on highways following US standards.

[bono]

For what it is worth, I am camping around South Lake Tahoe 2-3 times per year. Coming from SF Bay Area I am taking US50 and going through Echo Summit which is around 7,400 ft. I have never had a problem with power / keeping up with the traffic. Once with the outside temp 105F I noticed oil temp 265F - I slowed down and temp went down. This year I am planning to go through Tioga Road, which is almost 10,000 ft (depending on the situation in Yosemite NP). I will report back.

Originally Posted by adamkalins

In reading through this post, I got passionately emotional about responses. BMW is not conservative about their ratings, they are precise. I have overloaded a BMW X3, hence I have a 5. Next, the tow capacity may be 7k, but you need a hitch for that, and you need to go aftermarket for that. The X5 has plenty of power. The gas X5 has plenty of power. The brakes and handling are fantastic. I purchased the BMW towing module for the canbus, so the traction control can adapt to a tailer to eliminate sway. If it weren't for seeing the trailer in my mirrors, I wouldn't know it's there. The cooling system is important, I think all X5 have a dedicated transmission cooler. Think about altitude. That was my big mistake. The higher up you go, the less oxygen there is. You will see a drop in power in the mountains. That said, if you have the traction control module, your brakes and control going downhill will be fine. Your uphill, I bet you have enough power. Watch that tongue weight, and don't overload the trailer. Happy trails.

[bono]

No comments Happy camping!

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Here's a simple and easy to understand idea, use the numbers the experts at BMW use for US roads, speeds and test requirements.



If it makes you any happier, I also use your comments where you say it's nuts to tow above 65 mph and the fact you keep your speed to 60 mph and lower to confirm accuracy. I show your set-up with oversteer at about 56 mph on highways following US standards.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

Here's a simple and easy to understand idea, use the numbers the experts at BMW use for US roads, speeds and test requirements.

BMW did not assign a North American tow rating to my X5, they only rated the receiver hitch if one purchased it separately. The owners manual and door label are silent on the subject of tow ratings. The engineers issued a technical bulletin on this subject. Your approach wouldn’t work there. How about we go with experts and real world experience?

[BayouBiker]

The technical Bulletin was released by BMW and was written with concurrence from BMW experts. It included guidance and numbers on towing for the US market. Seems clear enough, the approach works there.