Please help newbie demystify towing ...

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

I am wondering about how much experience is in the above posts....

From most of the poster, quite a bit. Very experienced people.

[AIRHEDS]

Thanks Doug. Your recommendation is most reasonable but as you wrote in your first post, the gears and air bags are still a concern of mine. I'm assuming I can change the gears to 3.92's ... I'm guesstimating around $2-3K if I have the dealership do it, assuming that would keep me within warranty. I'll eventually inquire. Then paying attention to smart loading and scales ... which would need to be done regardless. I'll check with the wife but I'm sure she fell for the combination of the 28's dedicated dinette, straight-cut sink, and lounge/bed. Given we don't have kids and we'll mostly travel alone (additional adults/kids are for visiting family) ... common sense would dictate the 23 or 25 as a great choice ... but I don't think it's going to happen.

Bottom line: thanks to all of the posters who took time to respond and add value to the discussion. I appreciate the time you all took. I learned a lot about GCVW, GVW, GTW, Curb Weight, Axle Ratio's and Tongue Weights. In the final analysis, I'm most apprehensive about making the 1500 work ... I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a bigger tow vehicle but it makes sense to explore ways to make my existing TV work. I hope you all have a fun, safe holiday weekend. Sincerely, Rich

[rodsterinfl]

Sometimes dealers can help with matters like this, especially if you are willing to trade. There have been SO MANY posts about this. Most 1/2 tons are fine with the towing capacity. It is the payload capacity that has to be watched and your 950 is probably going to be more. Mine is said to be 840 and is really 990. Your 1300 is really about 300# left for peeps and anything else- not enough. You do not HAVE to get a 2500 though. Just shop and consider your new requirement. With a 2016 truck that dealer should be able to do something. My dealer (not on a truck but on a motorcycle) gave me most all the money back to re-buy when I realized the limitations of the vehicle and needed more. I would try that first.

As far as models of Airstream go, I am geeky on this and have taken a measuring tape to the dealer to compare 25, 27, 28 models. They are VERY similar though with your family I would want the advantage the larger units provide in seating, especially the 28. The extra two feet or two feet one inch afford you about a foot more in the galley- The 27 appears to offer more storage galley/wardrobe while the 28 more seating.

[dkottum]

It's always difficult to make suggestions, help the o.p. without knowing details. Such as no trailer yet, like a 28 but maybe downsize to a 25; truth is there are only a few hundred pounds difference.

Or two people but maybe 4 adults plus a child to two; not only is the Airstream cramped, also don't worry about truck payload because there are not enough seatbelt positions. The solution is meet your friends at the campground with their car. The Ram 1500 would be excellent for you and wife and the 28 when set up and loaded accordingly.

Airstreams are relatively tiny RV's. Spend some time comparing Airstreams to your travel and camping needs, and consider how many people and how much gear you can actually take along. You may be closer than you think. Or not.

Well, except for the boxes of cookies.

[tjdonahoe]

I don't think I would worry about it,use a good hitch, hook up and go, you can study this to death, that is why we have no bypass in Billings, Mt. ,the engineers have been studying it since the 1970's....

[PharmGeek]

4 adults even in my 30 foot bunkhouse is cramped

One of the big limitations we had when going with another couple (for example) and our kids was fridge room - we quickly learned that any amount of crowding in the fridge will reduce that fridge's ability to stay cool enough - so then we had to bring a big cooler and ice to keep a lot of stuff for the trip.

Clothes storage for 4 adults plus, towels, non perishable foods - etc -

It's doable though I suspect....

But perhaps since this post is about Tow Vehicle I am just creeping away front the main topic

Good luck!

[Tyvekcat]

>"Serenity 28 and I'm good with it because I love it too--the layout just works so well for us. Empty, it's 6K lbs with a 950 lb tongue weight. " <


yeah, that sounds about right. I will tell you its rock solid on towing. You will like that.
You can't man-handle ( push around) the 28' when hitching up to the truck. ( I would guess a 30' is the same way)
I would 'bump' my some other brand trailer if I got the truck close, and let the coupler slide down on the ball. Not the 28' its solid. No pushin it around, LOL
You have to get the 'ball' positioned perfectly.

I liken it to coupling freight cars. 'Ka-chunk', and latch the coupler, attach the pin,
'then connect the airhose.'
I havn't had the wind push it around either, its one with the truck.
We had to get a 28', you would not believe how mush room a Cat can take up !
Have a good one !

[timhortons]

Originally Posted by riffin-rich

Hello all. I'm brand new here. My wife and I had a pop-up years ago and decided to start camping again. We just discovered Airstream and visited the dealer yesterday. Our plan is to buy once and not upgrade; we fell in love with the International Serenity 28 Twin. My concern is that I have a new truck - purchased only with the intention of pulling a pop-up camper:

• 2016 RAM 1500, 5.7L Hemi / 8 Spd Auto Trans, 4x4, Crew Cab, 6'4" Bed, 3:21 gears and four-corner airbag suspension.

I used the RAM online utility to obtain my max tow information and it reports:

• Max Payload: 1,300 lbs
• Max Towing: 7,850 lbs
• Door sticker, "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1040 lbs."

I'm concerned that I don't have enough truck to safely pull the 28':

• 950 lbs tongue weight
• 5923 lbs empty
• 7600 lbs full gvwr plus we'll add the options (not solar)

Questions:

1. Does Max Payload of 1300 lbs mean tongue weight, while 1,040 lbs means additional cabin and truck bed contents?
2. Can we SAFELY proceed with this set-up for a couple of years (we live in VA) if we avoid the Rockies?
3. Adding anti-sway "stuff" will subtract weight we can carry with us ... pots, pans, plates, chairs ... stuff ...

We'll eventually upgrade the truck to a 2500 or 3500 ... but we just can't do that right now. Thanks so much for your time and assistance and please do weigh in. Thanks so much! Sincerely, Rich

You can read speculation from amateurs and hobbyists including me (or truck and trailer salespeople) about what works and doesn't all day here. Or you can call Andy @ Can-Am and talk to people who've set up 10,000 or more of these things over 40 years.

Properly dialled in I've *heard* the 28 is a dream to tow and it certainly seemed so when I test drove one.

[DC Bruce]

I've towed our 27 over 20000 miles since last October, beginning with a cross-country trip and thereafter throughout California, Utah, Arizona, Nevada. It tows fine behind my 1/2 ton which has a rated 1940 lb cargo capacity per the door sticker. One thing to look at in choosing between trailer models is where the internal storage is. More than 3/4s of the storage is forward of the wheels. I suspect a model that isn't a front bed (like the 27) will have more storage behind the axles, which means loading the trailer won't drive up the tongue weight so much.
This "cargo capacity" is as important if you're camping exclusively in Kansas or in Colorado. Your truck will do a fine job pulling the trailer up the Rockies. The question is whether you can get the truck reasonably level when the trailer is hitched and you're loaded for camping, and whether your suspension is fully or almost fully compressed when you're hitched and loaded.

[slowmover]

Axle and tire limits are the genuine reference numbers. All else is either recommendations or marketing.

Changing the tow vehicle is far easier than changing the trailer.

My folks had their 28' Silver Streak 27-years. Two tow vehicles. Nearer the limits on the first (a luxury car) than the second (a 3/4T Suburban) which was far inferior in all other duties. Carried more weight aboard, granted, but the less capable in handling and braking.

The trailer was a dunk shot. A bit small for a family of five on 3-week trips, but great for two for months at a time.

Too big isn't better in re tow vehicles.

After a period of acquiring and carrying all kinds of stuff I'd venture to say that most pare things down to what is actually used after a few years.

[BoldAdventure]

Problems I don't have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[switz]

Choose the tool for the mission. That includes the choice of both tow vehicle and trailer.

[AIRHEDS]

I just wanted to get back to everyone to say thank you for taking time to respond and to also provide closure. While there were many differing opinions, I trust you were all correct in your suggestions based on your years of towing experience. We've taken the first step along the journey, and just yesterday, purchased the new tow vehicle. It started a few weeks ago when we went back to the AS dealer to see if we could be happy with a lighter 25' so I could keep my 1500 as a daily driver and an interim tow vehicle. We both agreed that the 23's and 25's were beautiful and would certainly serve our purposes, but we also thought that we would, one day, like the 28 the space/configuration of the 28. We knew we would feel like we settled if we didn't get a 28. Then, in a shining moment of stupidity, (the same as when I said, "Hey hun, look at this Airstream website with me.") I said, "Hey hun, there's a Classic 30 here ... let's just look!" Dohhhhhht!

So, the tow vehicle is more than I needed but we will not be limited by payload or trailer weight for the foreseeable future of the TV's lifetime. I initially started looking to upgrade my 1500 to a 2500 without airbags ... then got to thinking about descending passes in the Appalachians and wanting an exhaust brake for safety (I'm not an experienced tower). I spoke with Patrick at Colonial and he agreed that the 2500 w/diesel was a great choice for a 28 or 30, but if we wanted to add a motorcycle or anything really heavy, that the 3500 would be a better choice yet. So in the end, we purchased a RAM 3500 SRW Cummins Crew Cab. It was only $1200 more than the 2500 for the upgraded suspension. I haven't seen the door sticker payload on the vehicle yet (it's coming from another dealer) but the same 2500 version had a 2,000 lb payload. I'm expecting the 3500 to have 2,750 lbs of payload capacity.

So today, I'll be looking for a small daily driver because the 3500 won't fit in my parking garage in Wash, DC. Thanks again for all of your time and feedback. Sincerely, Rich

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[Rocinante]

Here's something else to consider, especially for those new to towing: An RV driving / parking / safety class from a CDL (Commercial Driving License) training center.

We just finished the first half of an 8-hour course (4 hours per day). Even though we've been towing for two years, in the first four hours we learned a ton of great stuff that has immediately and significantly improved our ability to back / park / tow Rocinante. We so wish we had taken this class two years ago when we bought our RV. We towed Rocinante down there and learned with our own rig, so the class was directly relevant to our needs.

Looking forward to part two of the class in a couple of days!

Not all CDL schools offer RV training classes, but we found one in our area that does. Here's who we used (no, we're not affiliated with them, etc.): http://cdstruckschool.com/locations/

If you're in WA, you can find approved CDL training schools here: http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense...edschools.html

If you're elsewhere, perhaps your state has a similar referral page.

[rodsterinfl]

Share some of your learnin!

[Rocinante]

Best learning we have to offer is that so far the course, while not cheap, is well worth the money. Matching the cost of the class against the cost of our rig (and our improved personal safety) was pretty easy math to do, especially after we'd spent a couple of hours with our trainer and began seeing immediate results. I should also say that we took this course as a couple. If you travel as a couple, take the course as a couple, even if one of you "doesn't drive" the trailer. If you travel single, this course should still be valuable.

We spent our time today with an hour in the classroom and the rest out on the lot backing Rocinante into a 10-ft wide spot (just lined by cones so no worries if we missed) with various entry scenarios - backing straight in, from 90 degrees, and also from the "blind" side. Some of the things he taught us are counter-intuitive though highly effective - we never would have thought of them on our own. Also, gotta say that he hit a number of scenarios we probably wouldn't have decided to practice, without formal training, on our own in some big empty parking lot somewhere. Having that attentive expert standing right there, challenging us with scenarios and giving us input as needed is just huge.

One simple example, if you're backing in, but your trailer is "tight on the right" you can pull forward to the right and then turn back to the left so you can once again see down the left side of the trailer. Then you start backing in again. This process moves the trailer to the left. Our initial reaction? "You've got to be kidding." However, under the right circumstances, this technique works beautifully.

Next session we'll do some road driving - negotiating various types of turns, traffic circles (roundabouts), and then some more backing up / parking.

Then, to finish our trainer will accompany us to our covered storage location to give us on-site training / tips for easier parking there. Those spots are really tight, and ours requires a blind side turn. It also has a post on the curbside (blind side) that would love to rip our awning hardware off the trailer if we messed up. This "graduation ceremony" is something we negotiated in addition to the basic class.