New Owner - Tow Vehicle Confusion

[SYC2Vette]

Our midsize GMC Canyon V6 is a great tow vehicle for our 20' FC/FB, and now with a supercharger also works great at high altitude on steep climbs humming along at 65 MPH and 2800 RPM over grades. That said I would not want to tow anything larger, not even a 23' much less a 25'. We max out the TV GVWR once we add tongue weight and supplies and are at a total of 11,000 lbs out of 12,000 lb total GW rating. Believe you figured it out but just to confirm. Too bad because as a daily driver the Colorado/Canyon out handles and outperforms any of the 1/2 or 3/4 ton trucks. I have a K2500 and previously owned a Silverado and they handle like pigs compared to the mid size trucks but the K2500 will haul a load of gravel, and pull up to 10,000 lbs like it is not even there.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by StewBagg

Dave...I appreciate your situation. About 4 months ago we put a deposit on a 25' FC. We chose to go over kill 11,000# tow and 1350# cargo!

Hate to tell you, but that 25 will eat up most of that 1350# with TW. I’m one of those that would say 25 is the hairy edge for a 1/ ton. Especially if towing extensively.

To the OP; small trucks can be handy. Towing is not “handy”, safe towing is “work” and requires a proper TV. Someone quoted Wally above “the TV should always out weigh the trailer...”

Safe travels to all,
Bill

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by JonDNC

Only if you do silly things like put DEF in the diesel fill. The new trucks have solved most if not all of the earlier systems challenges and known issues.

I think you can do very well towing with gasoline engine, diesels can be very expensive to maintain. If someone is towing for a living or doing tens of thousands of miles , maybe a case can be made.

[mckenej]

We have a 25ft Flying Cloud and tow it over 6,000 mile a years with a full size Ford F150, with a 3.5 exo boost engin. I would never go lower than a 1500, or F150. Our AS weight loaded on a CAT scale is is 6,100lbs.

On YouTube checkout Bigtruck Big RV this site great doe a new owner.

[Collyn]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

With that logic not a single semi could go down the road. This is such nonsense.

Semi-tractors weigh up to 25,000 pounds. An 18-wheeler can legally weigh as much as 80,000 pounds. A semi-truck can haul up to 34,000 pounds.

And you’d need a semi to haul a 5 wheeler since many are around 14,000lbs

With respect, I would have thought it was obvious that we are discussing trailers towed via an overhung hitch. My apologies if that was not clear.

I am well aware that Fruehauf (in 1920) realised that the overhung hitch results in inherently unstable towing - and developed the semi-trailer concept.

I do (in one of my published articles) note that 'If God were to buy a caravan she would choose a semi-trailer').

Light semi-trailer 'travel trailers' are made in Australia and are towed by vehicles such as Toyota Land Cruiser traybacks etc. They typically weigh under two tonnes.

It may interest you that Australian heavy transport has many semi-trailers rigs that have up to five trailers - total weight is over 250 tonne and they travel at 110 km/h (about 65 mph) and often on single-lane dirt roads of vast distances. https://www.pinterest.ie/pin/549509592011338072/


Collyn

[stevenson748]

Short answer, No. Won't handle the tongue wt and short wheel base will provide rough ride.

[Blomb]

We pull a 25 foot safari with a 2019 chevy crew cab 1500 with the max towing package. We have been through the mountains and the valleys, and have not had any issues with pulling or stopping. The truck drives very well with the trailer and without, I wish the fuel tank were a bit larger, but other than that it has performed as it should.

[Seanlb]

We pull our 23 with a 2.8 diesel Colorado — it works great for us.

However, with all the steep grades we traverse in Southern California, I don’t think I’d want to have anymore trailer behind this little truck.

RAM eco diesel might be a good fit with the 25’ if the truck also needs to be a daily driver.

[SYC2Vette]

Originally Posted by Seanlb

We pull our 23 with a 2.8 diesel Colorado — it works great for us.

However, with all the steep grades we traverse in Southern California, I don’t think I’d want to have anymore trailer behind this little truck.

Impressive, but I am pretty sure you would not do to well with that combination in Colorado and high altitudes even with the turbo. If you are happy and not exceeding any of the ratings then good for you.

[Foiled Again]

Just saw that Nissan HAS NOT canceled the rather weird looking NV 3500 van. The 2021's are arriving at select dealers near you! If you have 6 children this comes with up to 12 seats. At $35,000 I am going to Sherlock Holmes investigate it!!! Sure it will hit 40K out the door but if all else fits, it will happen and some newbie may get a 2013 GMC at a price that will let them have a tow vehicle while keeping their compact. V8 with 7 speed transmission version. OH please let the acceptable tongue weight be 1000 pounds. Definitely ordering aluminum 30 lb. Propane bottles.... 14 lbs less does matter (truthfully, more for me when lifting them than for the tongue weight).

[Foiled Again]

And it will NOT be white, but SILVER.

[rmkrum]

AMEN. Even SWMBO insists the TV color match the Airstream color...



Yes, it’s silver!

[TeckTavern]

Originally Posted by DaveEWT

We are first time Airstream buyers and are trying to select the right tow vehicle. Is a Chevy Colorado or GMC Canyon (7,600 lb tow rating) enough to comfortably tow a Flying Cloud 25? Or should we go up to a full size truck or suv? As the tow vehicle will also be a daily driver, I'd like to get no more than we need. Any real world experience and thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

I agree with those that discourage it ...you won't have a good experience in hilly areas. When it comes to a trailer/truck team, the truck needs to be the Boss!

[DaveEWT]

Thanks everyone for your great advice. We've decided on a Ram 1500 with the 3.0L ecodiesel V6 with 3.92 gear ratio...rated at 9,700 tow capacity. It's great to know there are so many fellow AS owners happy to help a newbie. Looking forward to seeing you on the road.

[captahab1]

Have you looked into how the tongue weight of the airstream will affect your payload capacity? I'm in a similar situation, but with a FC 27FB and will probably be going with a 3/4 ton truck because of payload issues. I'm buying a used TV though so it's harder for me to find a 1/2 ton truck with the 'specs' needed to manage tow capacity, payload etc.

[Pappy3393]

Payload is THE issue. Don’t trust the advertised payload capacities. They are usually for the most basic truck with max payload and max towing packages under the best circumstances. Look at the sticker on the truck door. That’s hard when you are ordering a truck. The actual payload capacities are usually hundreds of pounds less the the best case advertised values. Payload includes the weight of the people in the truck, the tongue weight of the AS, the weight distribution hitch and any contents in the truck. I quickly went from looking at 1/2 ton trucks to 3/4 trucks when I considered all of the weight factors. My biggest stumbling block was payload on the 1/2 ton trucks because even though it will mostly be me, the wife and the dog on trips, we will occasionally have my son, daughter in law and 2 kids in the truck. That’s an additional 500+ lbs of payload and with a 1000 lb tongue weight of the AS, I quickly am over the max.

[BayouBiker]

The Ram will have a maximum tongue weight of 1100 lb or more and a payload right near 2000 lb depending on installed options, so room of maybe 900 lb of people and gear, a comfortable amount, not a lot. Drivetrain and brake capacity are driving the limits for this vehicle, so honor the weight limits as best you can. The vehicle will be very safe with addition of a compliant WD and anti-sway hitch. Get one with flexible bars, they are much easier on the trailer, particularly the front sheet elements.

[lsbrodsky]

I see these discussions over and over so I feel compelled to jump in, once again. I have a 25FB, yes one of the heaviest tongue weights. Four years ago I installed Lithiums under the bed which helped some. But with 2 people, a dog, and the stuff I wanted to carry in my 1/2 Chevy, with the towing package, I could not also add a topper...I used a tonneau. We covered thousands of miles without incident, but generally limited my travels to 250 miles per day, and was tired enough at the end of that. Attributed it to my advanced age....
In 2017, I traded for a 3/4 ton Chevy. I cannot even describe the huge difference in comfort and performance. Most important was that the stopping distance was significantly reduced, reducing the downrange vigilance and white knuckle driving a bunch. The engine and suspension are much more suited to towing my trailer and, of course, the 36 gallon tank precludes the need to find pump space at a normal gas station with the trailer. Yes, I also added an ARE topper. I find I am not exhausted at the end of a day of driving and 300-350 miles is now my maximum, when needed.
I don't doubt that 2021 engines and gearing are better than my first TV, but with my experience, I would never recommend a 1/2 ton as the optimal choice for a 25 or bigger.
Larry

[Pappy3393]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

The Ram will have a maximum tongue weight of 1100 lb or more and a payload right near 2000 lb depending on installed options, so room of maybe 900 lb of people and gear, a comfortable amount, not a lot. Drivetrain and brake capacity are driving the limits for this vehicle, so honor the weight limits as best you can. The vehicle will be very safe with addition of a compliant WD and anti-sway hitch. Get one with flexible bars, they are much easier on the trailer, particularly the front sheet elements.

You will be hard pressed to find a RAM 1500 with an actual payload of 2000 lbs. I have looked hard and the only 1/2 ton truck that has a decent payload is the stripped down F 150 with max payload, max towing and the eco boost gas engine. You also have to get the longer truck bed and I found that it won’t fit in my garage. Speaking with the great folks in Ontario Canada, they said that if I went with a GM or Dodge 1/2 ton truck I would have to reinforce the hitch to the frame to handle the tongue weight. I am getting a 28 FC so smaller AS’s will have different tongue weights.

[BayouBiker]

I agree with you and Larry that cargo is limited on a 1500. I also agree completely with the motivation for it. It's why I have a 2500. I have traveled with less than 900 lbs a couple times.

The 1850-1925 payload Ram is a real thing, though they are not common, and not what I recommend but to each their own. Thanks for the pushback.