New guy totally frustrated picking the right TV

[jbev59]

Most 1/2 ton trucks have plenty of power to pull a 28' trailer, but the big difference between 1/2 ton 3/4 to1 ton trucks is the brakes and front suspention . I have towed with a 1/2 ton truck with sway bars and load levellers. the big difference is the porpusing of the front of the tow vehicle . the front of the 1/2 ton trucks bounce up and down . I have a f350 diesel dully Great for towing , this is my daily driver a little rough riding unloaded. They have put much better brakes on 1/2 ton trucks . I still think if you are gonna tow a travel trailer you should buy a 3/4 ton truck .

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Another person that ignores maximum payload specifications.People read articles like this and believe the author to be a authority when in fact he or she is a writer paid to write interesting stories.Next week he may be writing a story for Better Homes and Gardens about the best tort recipes.We see this all the time with automobile articles in magazines like Car and Driver and Road and Track.When you read this stuff you can only shake your head and chuckle.

The author:

Can-Am RV Centre | Your Towing Experts

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Another person that ignores maximum payload specifications.People read articles like this and believe the author to be a authority when in fact he or she is a writer paid to write interesting stories.Next week he may be writing a story for Better Homes and Gardens about the best tort recipes.We see this all the time with automobile articles in magazines like Car and Driver and Road and Track.When you read this stuff you can only shake your head and chuckle.

Chuckle away, Moflash.

Take the time to view Andy's work on his website:

Can-Am RV Centre | #1 Airstream Dealer in Customer Satisfaction Worldwide | Your Full-Service RV Dealer

You'll find no one better qualified in the US and Canada to write about towing.

[HeadWest]

Wow, I never would have guessed tow vehicles could be this controversial.

My son bought a new F150 last month. The stated payload capacity for his configuration on the Ford website and brochure is 1560 pounds. The door sticker says that the combined of occupants and cargo should never exceed 1310 pounds, a 250 pound difference. I believe the difference is with the options on his vehicle reducing the payload capacity (skid plates, moonroof, subwoofer, etc.). The difference might also be the fuel.

I'm leaning towards an F150 ecoboast in a configuration that has a stated payload capacity of 1900 pounds. It is higher then my son's because of max tow package, shorter bed, and lighter engine. Otherwise I will be optioned about the same so I believe I will probably be at about 1650 pounds. Not a lot to work with considering my 28' International has a tongue weight per AS of 950 including propane. However, the WD hitch will push some of this back to the trailer axles.

The GVWR on the truck is 7650, GVWR on the trailer is 7600 which puts the GCWR at 15,250. The rated GVWR from Ford is 17,100 which I will be well under that amount.

Also, I can order the truck with LT tires which makes a lot of sense or else I can order it with the standard P metrics and change out to an LT tire when I get the truck. The LT's from Ford are load range C's.

I'd like to have the added capacity of going to a 3/4 ton but it is not what I want to live with for a daily driver (BTW, not everyone that selects a 1/2 ton over a 3/4 ton is doing it to save money). It is a very frustrating process with all of this largely because of the lack of decent detailed information and vastly different opinions on the subject. And no, you don't need a 1 ton dually to pull a 6' open utility trailer nor is a Smart car an adequate tow vehicle for your 34' Classic.

[rodsterinfl]

Note that the F150 under discussion could have an optional 36 gallon instead of a 26 gallon fuel tank. The extra ten gallons of gasoline reduces payload capacity by about 62 pounds.

One issue though, according to Ford literature, the fuel is considered in the truck weight, not deducted from payload. So, the sticker on the door already has fuel weight considered. I am not sure about the 36 gallon tank situation but if they followed their other information, it too would be factored in truck weight and not payload.

When you are shopping, check out the door sticker by the tire info. It will tell you what the specific truck payload rating is. I found that the included tires make a difference too-should be d or e rated with towing packages.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Aww......leave the Frostbacks alone....C eh N eh D eh rocks.



Bob

[Wingeezer]

I'd be interested to know if any of the folks towing a trailer substantially beyond their tow vehicle's maximum rating - even if the tow vehicle has been modified by an RV dealer - have ever checked with their insurance company to be sure that they would not be negating their coverage?

I have a suspicion that many insurance companies would be only too happy to have a reason not to pay up!

I think if I ever considered going that route, it would be something I would feel obliged to verify - and would seek to have it confirmed in writing!

Perhaps I worry about these things way too much!

[pappy19]

My 3/4 ton F250 rides just as good as my wife's Lincoln LT(just a fancy F150). With good shocks and the tire pressure set at the minimum, it will ride as good as any 1/2 ton. When I tow, I raise the tire pressures up to near the maximum. Tire pressure and tire design has as much to do with your ride as does the springs or 1/2 ton vs 3/4 ton. The frames, brakes. springs and size of shocks all come into play when you compare a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 or 1 ton. In the towing world, more is better than barely or not enough.

[tuffr2]

I wonder how the old timers towed AS trailers. I know I saw pics, videos and movies of old cars towing. Even old trucks. Those old trucks were junk. Flimsy frames with all kinds of body flex. They had lousy brakes and lousy engines compared to todays trucks.

I would bet a new Toyota Tacoma would be a better TV than a 1970 F-250.

Were the old AS lighter?

Anyway - New Ram HDs, New Tundras, new F-150, and new Chevy 1500 are just around the corner. Each iteration now usually improves the frame, engine, and capacity. I think the new Tundra and Rams will be available in 2 to 4 months.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

I'd be interested to know if any of the folks towing a trailer substantially beyond their tow vehicle's maximum rating - even if the tow vehicle has been modified by an RV dealer - have ever checked with their insurance company to be sure that they would not be negating their coverage?

I have a suspicion that many insurance companies would be only too happy to have a reason not to pay up!

I think if I ever considered going that route, it would be something I would feel obliged to verify - and would seek to have it confirmed in writing!

Perhaps I worry about these things way too much!

Hi Brian,

I've not consulted my insurance company, for a number of reasons. First and foremost, insurance in Ontario is scarily expensive and I wouldn't want to give them any excuse to further add to my premium. Secondly, and this is a personal view only, I don't think that it's relevant that I tow; period. They're not interested that I might have five children on board when travelling, which is potentially a hugely expensive issue in the event of a claim, so I don't see that towing a properly and legally rigged trailer is something they need to be aware of.

Certainly insurance companies will look to wriggle out of paying up in the event of a claim, they owe it to their shareholders to pay out as little as possible, but they do have to have a good reason to withhold or limit payment. We can only speculate but in making a claim that had some relevance to towing, I'm sure an insurance company might point to "operating the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications". Equally one could argue, though, that modifying the set up to aid towing performance, even with the addition of just a weight distribution system, nullifies the manufacturer's original intent and therefore their specification. We could indulge in more speculation about just what defines a "tow rating" and how modifications may or may not affect it, but that's really for the lawyers working on specific cases.

I don't know that much about auto insurance; do they pay claims where you're in contravention of a traffic law such as speeding, or having under-inflated tires or some such? I'm guessing that if the misdemeanour contributed to the claim then maybe they might reduce or withhold payment. Follow the logic and I suppose the company might want to reduce or withhold payment if exceeding a tow rating contributed to the claim; the thing is, they'd have to prove it, which given both the nebulous nature of a tow rating and the effects of modifications made to improve towing performance, might be problematical for them.

I've not heard of any issues with tow ratings and insurance; maybe some folks have had problems, I don't know.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

Hi Brian,

I've not consulted my insurance company, for a number of reasons.

I've not heard of any issues with tow ratings and insurance; maybe some folks have had problems, I don't know.

Anyway, that's just my take on it.

Thanks for the input. I understand your perspective, and certainly each of us have our own degree of comfort with these things !

For my part, when it comes to insurance, I always have the feeling that I am fooling myself if I pay for insurance that isn't there when I need it!

That's why, for example, before retiring, I always used to "fess up"
as to whether or not our cars were used for driving to work and such even though it probably increased our premiums!

To your point about speeding, I can't say I'm 100% sure, but I would think that if there was a way for the insurance company to prove that you had been speeding and got into an accident, you may well not be covered.

I'm pretty sure that would be the case if you got into an accident while over the legal blood alcohol level.

Perhaps it comes down to an assessment of the seriousness of the infraction.

Be interesting if we had some insurance agents here on the forum to comment!


On a non-related insurance issue, when I bought our AS and took out insurance on it, I wanted to ensure that my policy included coverage for hail damage. My broker ensured me that it did and so i paid up.

A month or so later when my policy arrived, I read through it and learned that for the coverage to kick in, the hail would have to cause perforation!

What weasel words!

I wound up changing companies and paying quite a bit more to ensure that I had coverage for (expensive) cosmetic damage to the trailer due to hail!

As mentioned, I may be a bit paranoid about these things!

All the best ................. Brian

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Were the old AS lighter?

Yep....at least the published weights

Bob

[rodsterinfl]

You would be surprised what the car black box tells dealers. They knew my seat belt was not fastened.

[rodsterinfl]

Were the old AS lighter?

Absolutely. Check the specs on AS.com. They were narrower too. Add to that in the 80's, American cars lost their full frame so there went true towing capabilities.

[Moflash]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

Chuckle away, Moflash.

Take the time to view Andy's work on his website:

Can-Am RV Centre | #1 Airstream Dealer in Customer Satisfaction Worldwide | Your Full-Service RV Dealer

You'll find no one better qualified in the US and Canada to write about towing.

Not real impressed with Andy if he let you go out the door with a Toyota Sienna that has a max tow rating of 3500 lbs and a total payload of approx 1200lbs knowing full well that you and your 5 children that ride with you and that you were going to pull a 28ft Airstream with a real tongue weight of appox 1000 lbs and a GVW 7600lbs.Plus the weight of the hitch they installed and wd system.
Wow!! Have you ever looked underneath your Sienna and looked at the the size of your drive axle and CV joints(about the diameter of a US quarter) much less the rear trailing axles and coil springs?
I read about these tow vehicle selections and I just cant believe the number of people out there that not only risk their lives but more importantly innocent people around them.To save gas? Money? Ride quality?What?
I would have liked to read the disclaimer that you signed from CanAm Rv center on this deal.
Definitely not cool MRUKTOAD

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

You would be surprised what the car black box tells dealers. They knew my seat belt was not fastened.

Anyone who falls for Flo is also giving it up.....


Bob

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by Moflash

Not real impressed with Andy if he let you go out the door with a Toyota Sienna that has a max tow rating of 3500 lbs and a total payload of approx 1200lbs knowing full well that you and your 5 children that ride with you and that you were going to pull a 28ft Airstream with a real tongue weight of appox 1000 lbs and a GVW 7600lbs.Plus the weight of the hitch they installed and wd system.
Wow!! Have you ever looked underneath your Sienna and looked at the the size of your drive axle and CV joints(about the diameter of a US quarter) much less the rear trailing axles and coil springs?
I read about these tow vehicle selections and I just cant believe the number of people out there that not only risk their lives but more importantly innocent people around them.To save gas? Money? Ride quality?What?
I would have liked to read the disclaimer that you signed from CanAm Rv center on this deal.
Definitely not cool MRUKTOAD

Thanks for that Moflash, I shall file it with all the other "Oh no, you're going to kill us all" posts.

I'll say it again, read up on Andy's work on his website and in his regular "Hitch Hints" column in Airstream Life. You will quickly see that towing is so much more than just weight and playing around with numbers.

You don't have to agree with his take on towing, but given that he's run a successful business specialising in towing solutions for travel trailers for over 40 years, you should at least respect his experience and knowledge in his chosen field. I can assure you that Can Am as a business would never let an unsafe or untested set up off their lot if they weren't 100% happy with it. However, you appear to know better....

[Travel Bird]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

Thanks for that Moflash, I shall file it with all the other "Oh no, you're going to kill us all" posts.

I'll say it again, read up on Andy's work on his website and in his regular "Hitch Hints" column in Airstream Life. You will quickly see that towing is so much more than just weight and playing around with numbers.

You don't have to agree with his take on towing, but given that he's run a successful business specialising in towing solutions for travel trailers for over 40 years, you should at least respect his experience and knowledge in his chosen field. I can assure you that Can Am as a business would never let an unsafe or untested set up off their lot if they weren't 100% happy with it. However, you appear to know better....

I totally agree with Mr UK Toad. Andy is the best. We followed his advise and couldn't be happier. We even went to CanAm after we purchased out new 'Stream!!

[Airstream330]

Wow, this is almost word-for-word my situation. The only difference is that I'm looking at the 27FB now and the hitch weight Of mine is less than yours. I am traveling in South America right now and don't have the spec with me but I should be clear that what I am trying to do is end up with an outfit that is indeed IN spec. It seems to me that just as you correctly noted The F150 Ecoboost when outfitted with the three hitch/payload packages and proper tires absolutely meets the spec that is published on weights both combined and individual. That includes responsible loading that don't exceed the CGVWRs
The tricky area is the hitch weight. In my case it was about 800 lbs. and the F150 rates at about 1120 lbs if I remember the numbers correctly. That means I have about 300 lbs to cover the hitch itself and other "stuff" such as the hitch weight portion of the fluids and cargo. From what I have read in these threads it seems that those items may bring me close to my max tongue weight but of course with a top-rated WD hitch I am pretty comfortable that I will be both safe and legal. Now, on the subject of legal i confess that I am not a lawyer or an expert but it seems that the critical specs are around axle weights and GVWR which I believe I will be well within . so as far as getting pulled over I will be fine ( not fined ) now on the subject of safety I am first relying again on the manufacturers specs and staying within. Secondly I am relying on the reputation and common knowledge that this new toy of mine will substantially outperform if operated properly and WITHIN specs. The last grey area seems to be around what will go in the box when we travel and whether or not that will blow through all the spec that I've worked so hard to stay within. That it appears will be my learning curve. I have learned an awful lot from all constituents and greatly appreciate it even if it has made me go back and forth like crazy. I feel like F250 is the safe bet but after driving it am not sure it is what I want for a daily driver. I feel like the F150 meets the spec and would be a great daily driver but I may end up regretting that I cannot bring extra payload. My decision... Drumroll please..... I will probably lease an F150 for the first two years until I retire. That gives me ample time to find out how I like the fit and feel of it while only using it for 20-40 days a year. it also allows me to trade up should i want to when we start putting major miles on the rig after I do the big "R". I also plan to keep reading and learning! Thanks again to everyone.

[Travel Bird]

We tow our 27FB with our Ford Expedition EL and a Hensley Hitch. Done!! Andy Thompson advised is and it's perfect.