My Equalizer hitch was damaging my Airstream!

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Ideal would be weight distribution along with flex. It would be nice if the WD did not change much when you go through a dip. However that is not the case. The OP has a heavy truck and subjected the trailer to a lot of ferry loadings. Probably a combination of factors involved in the damage to the trailer. I am not really sure it matters if the bars are "tapered" or not. What is important is how much they increase torque in a dip. The square bars will flex closer to the hitch than the tapered bars. Maybe just taking the bars off for a 2500 truck for the ferry rides would eliminate the damage.

The taper allows for a bit of flex at the extremes - at least it works for me.
See my previous postings ... as to how I did it - several years ago.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by mefly2

The taper allows for a bit of flex at the extremes - at least it works for me.
See my previous postings ... as to how I did it - several years ago.

And if you want to see frame 'flex' watch the space between the LP tank cover and the jack as you add/remove WD.

Bob
🇺🇸

[WellSaid11]

Originally Posted by panamerican

Doesn't happen very often, but I am in total agreement with Bob.

There is no valid reasoning to have 1200lb bars with a 28' Airstream and a 3/4 ton truck. As an example, the 28' footer has a hitch weight (real world) of around 1000lbs. Those bars are way too stiff and you are not trying to hand off all 1000lbs of hitch weight, maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of it.

For 20 years now I've used 600lb or 800lb bars depending on the trailer I'm pulling. Now if you had a 34' slide out, yea, possible those 1200lb bars might be correct, but I would still see about 1000lb bars.

Now if I read you post right you separated the sway control from the WD, so the required flex needed for sway control is no longer really needed, but 1200lb bars for maybe 1000lbs hitch weight (I know Airstream states it's about 875, but we all know better) is just wickedly over hitched.

I also have an airsafe hitch along with centramatics. I can leave stuff on the dinette table and unless I make an emerg maneuver, the items are still there when I stop.

So if you have an Equalizer WD, can you just get the "lighter" rated bars from the EQ website and swap them out? EQ seems to make it sound on the parts "splash" page that the replacement bars will only work in the same "rated" hitch:


https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

So if you have an Equalizer WD, can you just get the "lighter" rated bars from the EQ website and swap them out? EQ seems to make it sound on the parts "splash" page that the replacement bars will only work in the same "rated" hitch:


https://www.equalizerhitch.com/store

Hi, yes this is correct; Only the 12,000 lb. and 14,000 lb. bars are interchangeable.

[JJTX]

I have a Fastway hitch with 8000Lb bars and been wanting to get the 6000LB bars for my 19CB but they have been unavailable for over a year. The rest of the hitch shank/ball mount is the same between 6000 8000 10000. But, so far out of stock.

[ROBERT CROSS]

8K WD bars? Never

The 'castaway' square bars are NOT rated for the weight to be moved but for sway control.
They NEED to be stiff to accomplish that.
NOT the greatest design for the AS...IMO.
A compliant lash-up between AS & TV is paramount.

I have a 14k Hensley Arrow with 1000lb 'bars'.

The rating of the hitch should have little to do with the rating of the WD bars.



Bob
🇺🇸

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

8K WD bars? Never

The 'castaway' square bars are NOT rated for the weight to be moved but for sway control.
They NEED to be stiff to accomplish that.
NOT the greatest design for the AS...IMO.
A compliant lash-up between AS & TV is paramount.

I have a 14k Hensley Arrow with 1000lb 'bars'.

The rating of the hitch should have little to do with the rating of the WD bars.

Exactly, having the bars perform two functions, sway control and weight distribution means that to attain one goal (e.g. sway control) you you will ratchet up weight distribution, which can put excess pressure on the frame.

Can Am replaced my Equalizer hitch with an Eaz-Lift hitch head rated at 14K but with 1000 lbs bars that flex a lot more than my square EQ bars did. In fact that's their job, to flex, and to transfer some weight to the TV but not to the point of damaging the front end of the trailer. Those bars have nothing to do with sway control.

[Ndcctrucks]

I am very glad that I don’t have any handling issues with my 2004 Intl CCD 22’ with just a ball hitch- no equalizer, no anti-sway.

I have towed a multitude of trailer types including pulling trucks on a home-built tow dolly and the ONLY time I’ve had handling issues was having the weight improperly distributed (read: too far to the rear).

All these posts about equalizers and anti-sway equipment actually puzzle me. I don’t see the need if the tow vehicle is proper in size and capacity, and the trailer is loaded properly.

It is also readily apparent that Airstream frames are not capable of withstanding improper equalizer and anti-sway equipment. The trailer I have seems to have suffered from this as evidenced by tongue deformity and frame failures (which are repaired now).

I really believe that if you’re having noticeable handling issues, equalizers and anti-sway stuff are just duct tape to hide other, real problems.

[Rltports]

Originally Posted by panamerican

I also have an airsafe hitch along with centramatics. I can leave stuff on the dinette table and unless I make an emerg maneuver, the items are still there when I stop.

Panamerican..

Which Airsafe are you using?
When I called, the salesman suggested I get the higher weight rated model with shock absorbers in case I ever needed to tow something heavier. That made me concerned that it might be adding to the problem instead of resolving it.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Ndcctrucks

I am very glad that I don’t have any handling issues with my 2004 Intl CCD 22’ with just a ball hitch- no equalizer, no anti-sway.

I have towed a multitude of trailer types including pulling trucks on a home-built tow dolly and the ONLY time I’ve had handling issues was having the weight improperly distributed (read: too far to the rear).

All these posts about equalizers and anti-sway equipment actually puzzle me. I don’t see the need if the tow vehicle is proper in size and capacity, and the trailer is loaded properly.

It is also readily apparent that Airstream frames are not capable of withstanding improper equalizer and anti-sway equipment. The trailer I have seems to have suffered from this as evidenced by tongue deformity and frame failures (which are repaired now).

I really believe that if you’re having noticeable handling issues, equalizers and anti-sway stuff are just duct tape to hide other, real problems.

So happy for you... xallen't advise.

I'm happy with my brand of duc-tape.

Bob
🇺🇸

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Originally Posted by Ndcctrucks

I am very glad that I don’t have any handling issues with my 2004 Intl CCD 22’ with just a ball hitch- no equalizer, no anti-sway.

I have towed a multitude of trailer types including pulling trucks on a home-built tow dolly and the ONLY time I’ve had handling issues was having the weight improperly distributed (read: too far to the rear).

All these posts about equalizers and anti-sway equipment actually puzzle me. I don’t see the need if the tow vehicle is proper in size and capacity, and the trailer is loaded properly.

It is also readily apparent that Airstream frames are not capable of withstanding improper equalizer and anti-sway equipment. The trailer I have seems to have suffered from this as evidenced by tongue deformity and frame failures (which are repaired now).

I really believe that if you’re having noticeable handling issues, equalizers and anti-sway stuff are just duct tape to hide other, real problems.

Hi, it's also well known that 22 foot Airstreams from 2003 to 2005 had weak frames that would practically fall apart just sitting. Sorry for the bad news. Do a search; You might be shocked.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, it's also well known that 22 foot Airstreams from 2003 to 2005 had weak frames that would practically fall apart just sitting. Sorry for the bad news. Do a search; You might be shocked.

Bob is right. To save a few bucks, the company has looked for ways to cheapen the trailers for decades while raising prices. Your trailer was one of many with problems. I hope it was repaired correctly.

[Ndcctrucks]

Robert Cross, Robertsunrus, and Gene:

If you want, you could refer anyone else with problems similar to mine, to the thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f36...rs-228570.html

Thanks for your replies!

[panamerican]

Originally Posted by Rltports

Panamerican..

Which Airsafe are you using?
When I called, the salesman suggested I get the higher weight rated model with shock absorbers in case I ever needed to tow something heavier. That made me concerned that it might be adding to the problem instead of resolving it.

Sorry, late back to this thread.

I have the Class 6 with the dual shock absorbers.

You do get larger than you need because at one time there was a blurb somewhere that stated if you use weight distribution, you need to deduct something like 10% off the rating, so by going up one, you more than cover it. I got mine when I had a smaller trailer and now because of they way I bought it, it plays nice with the larger trailer. In reality going a bit bigger won't hurt the trailer in any way and won't provide any more rough ride to the smaller trailer with a bigger capacity air hitch.

[gypsydad]

Just catching up on this thread; seems most of the problems are with 27' FB models or does it happen also with 28' RB models also? I use the Blue Ox with 1500lb bars...48K miles now on her and do not notice any "creases" anywhere. I was advised when I purchased my 28 in 2017 by BO folks that with 1150 tongue weight, they recommended 1500# bars. I haven't had any issues that I can detect? I just polled BO techs again and this was the reply for 1150 tongue weight this morning:

"Thank you, you would be looking at the BXW1500 for the complete system otherwise the bars themselves would be part number BXW4008." Those are the same bars I have. These bars are for trailer tongue weights ranging from 1001 lbs to 1500 lbs, I have not heard of frame separation being an issue with Blue Ox products. But you have the correct bars for your system."

Anyone with a recent model 28' have any cautions, and pictures, please share?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Ndcctrucks

Robert Cross, Robertsunrus, and Gene:

If you want, you could refer anyone else with problems similar to mine, to the thread:
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f36...rs-228570.html

Thanks for your replies!

Did you get that trailer for free?

Bob
🇺🇸

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

"Thank you, you would be looking at the BXW1500 for the complete system otherwise the bars themselves would be part number BXW4008." Those are the same bars I have. These bars are for trailer tongue weights ranging from 1001 lbs to 1500 lbs, I have not heard of frame separation being an issue with Blue Ox products. But you have the correct bars for your system."

Anyone with a recent model 28' have any cautions, and pictures, please share?

To answer your questions, the vertical ribs in the front of a 28' RB are continuous from the frame up to the window, which is not the case with the FB models which have the storage compartment opening. This changes the stress pattern on the aluminum front end. As mentioned at the beginning of this thread in my case it's the rivets that sheared, not the aluminum. But I can't speak for others.
As for the Blue Ox and the rating of the bars, the higher the rating the stiffer the bars, and the stiffer the bars, the more stress placed on the frame. In addition, the shape of the bars (square vs round, and tapered vs non-tapered) is a factor in their ability to flex and absorb the stress from the movement of the TV relative to the trailer.
If you have a separate sway control mechanism, then the amount of weight distribution you need will depend on the load capacity of your TV when tongue weight is applied. In my case (3/4 ton TV) WD had very little effect on the TV (very little shifting of weight to the front axel) so WD was dialed down (tapered 1000# bars instead of stiff square 1200# bars) putting a lot less stress on the frame resulting in less frame flex and hopefully no more front end damage; and the ride is nice and smooth. As for what the future holds, time and mileage will tell.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Hermes

To answer your questions, the vertical ribs in the front of a 28' RB are continuous from the frame up to the window, which is not the case with the FB models which have the storage compartment opening. This changes the stress pattern on the aluminum front end. As mentioned at the beginning of this thread in my case it's the rivets that sheared, not the aluminum. But I can't speak for others.
As for the Blue Ox and the rating of the bars, the higher the rating the stiffer the bars, and the stiffer the bars, the more stress placed on the frame. In addition, the shape of the bars (square vs round, and tapered vs non-tapered) is a factor in their ability to flex and absorb the stress from the movement of the TV relative to the trailer.
If you have a separate sway control mechanism, then the amount of weight distribution you need will depend on the load capacity of your TV when tongue weight is applied. In my case (3/4 ton TV) WD had very little effect on the TV (very little shifting of weight to the front axel) so WD was dialed down (tapered 1000# bars instead of stiff square 1200# bars) putting a lot less stress on the frame resulting in less frame flex and hopefully no more front end damage; and the ride is nice and smooth. As for what the future holds, time and mileage will tell.

Thanks; When I picked up my AS in Portland 4 years ago, I could not get past 4.5 links showing in the chains with the 1500# bars, so the bars were pretty stiff for sure. After a year or so they , I was able to get to 3.5 links showing, which BO recommends. When I hook up I have a slight bow in the bars now, and much easier to load/unload then when these bars were new. Seems the tapered bars vs the square bars are much better on the AS for sure when towing. The added value of the "over center cam" with the chains allow for flex tension to help control any sway and also prevent conflict in tight turning/parking of the AS. The ride while towing with the F250 is great; rarely know it's back there...just some times, a really rough highway like I10 thru TX/LA gives me pause...I do keep my GYE's at 58-60psi cold, which has helped take the stress off inside the unit for broken hinges and popped rivets. Still, crazy to read this about potential stress to the A-frame...will keep an eye on this. Like I said, when i called BO yesterday with my tongue weight at 1150, they confirmed their earlier recommendation of 1500# bars...would make me feel better if they offered 1200# option.

[captainkirk]

At the beginning of this season, I installed an air ride hitch from Shocker. I worked with Bob who designed the hitch to get the setup right and it's amazing how much smoother the trailer rides. No more open cabinets and stuff strewn all over the floor when we get to our destination.
What's most noticeable is how much smoother the really rough bridge transitions are.
It works differently than the other air ride suspension hitch on the market. Lots less stress on the trailer shell and frame from just a regular weight distribution hitch.
I am using the new air bag system with a Reese Pro Series weight distribution hitch and all together it's about $850 (Not installed) and I installed it all myself.
Hook up is a breeze as the way the air bag system pivots you don't have to jack up the trailer to put the weight distribution bars on anymore. Just hook it all up and add the air to the bag at the end and it loads the bars at that time.
I have been very happy with the system and haven't had any negative towing issues.
I have no affiliation with shocker other than being a customer.

https://shockerhitch.com/product/air-equalizer/

[Mattedfred]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Last week was quite a week for us. Had my appointment at the Can Am RV service center (2000 km round trip) to have my trailer raised (we do lots of boondocking and getting on ferries that operate in tidal zones to get to our favorite camping spots was an issue with our low riding AS).

Knowing that when you raise the trailer you need to raise the hitch head, or lower the brackets (or both) and/or change the number of washers to adjust the angle of the head to maintain proper pressure for weight distribution and proper friction for sway control, I was looking forward to meeting Andy Thompson, one if not the most experienced expert in these matters, thinking about and working on Airstreams and hitches for the past 50 years.

Well I got more than I bargained for. As many of us on this forum, I am allergic to BS, and I can confirm that Andy is one of us. He looked at my hitch (which I was really pleased with) examined and pressed the front end of my trailer (2016 28’ International) and said in his matter-of-fact style “we have a problem here”. Sure enough, the front panel was no longer fixed to the vertical ribbing or to the bottom frame channel. The panel was loose and the rub rail was at least ¼” removed from the panel. What the %#$& was going on?

During the two days my trailer was in one of the nine Can Am service bays, I was able to ask Andy a fair number of questions (he is a hands-on walk-around-the-shop-floor kind of leader, in continuous exchange with his tech and service staff as well as with customers). I ended up getting a short master class in road dynamics, Airstream construction and the marrying of trailers to tow vehicles. Given that they regularly repair front ends like mine for the same reason, I thought it may be useful to share this on AirForums.

Wally Byam created quite a unique vehicle, a hybrid frame-monocoque construction, borrowing the aluminum riveted monocoque (or “single shell”) from the airplane industry and the frame from the automobile industry (although today’s cars are welded steel monocoque constructions). In a monocoque car, the body is the car, and the car is the body; in our pickups, the frame is the truck and they bolt a cab on the front and a box on the back. An Airstream combines both with a double walled shell riveted to the frame to form a unit; the frame and the shell move as one (or at least they are supposed to). An aluminum shell on a steel frame certainly has advantages but also some drawbacks, as I have experienced.

In all vehicles, steel frames flex. This means that when an Airstream frame flexes, this puts stresses on the shell, which brings us to road dynamics and hitches.

Andy asked me to stand in front of the trailer between the propane tanks and the trailer front end and observe the spot where frame ‘enters’ the trailer. He went inside by the door (we have an RBQ floor plan) and swung his weight a few times up in down, and sure enough I could see the frame flex! This is perfectly normal in an Airstream.

Frame flex is generated from road conditions under the trailer’s axels/wheels, which is why Airstreams chose a soft Dexter suspension and why proper trailer tire air pressure is so important; flex also comes from the trailer-TV connection, hence the importance of the hitch.

My hitch came with the trailer (originally purchased in Arizona) and has the square 1200 lbs WD bars and my TV is a ¾ ton GMC Sierra Duramax. I was assured that the tongue weight is not a problem for the trailer frame and it certainly is not a problem for the TV. The weight transfer effect of the WD bars onto the truck were minimal given its length and mass since transferring weight to the front axle of a loaded 22’ long ¾ ton diesel truck requires lots of leverage from the hitch end. So the Equalizer bars were mainly used for sway control, the more pressure applied to the L brackets the more friction was generated and the more sway control produced. I didn’t measure the pressure on the L brackets, but without the jackets they certainly screeched loud and clear!

So my TV was solidly connected to my trailer, it rode smoothly without porpoising when crossing railroad tracks or road bumps or whatever conditions the road threw at us, and there was no sway whatsoever. But little did I know that this “solid connection” between the trailer and the TV was damaging the trailer.

It turns out a hitch is not just a means to link a TV to a trailer; it is in fact a suspension system to smooth out the stresses transferred from the towing vehicle. And in my case, with my setup, the transfer was pretty direct, no smoothing. Any vibration on a rough road or any vertical displacement of the TV was transferred to the trailer’s frame through the WD bars. And since the front of the trailer is riveted to the frame (as is the rest of the body), if the frame movement is too pronounced it eventually creates enough stress to separate the aluminum shell from the frame.

The solution was to 1) repair the front-end of the trailer, which was expertly done (Can Am has done it many times) and it is now stronger than it was originally, and 2) change the dynamics between the trailer and my TV so it doesn’t happen again.

For the hitch, it was necessary to separate the sway control function from the WD function. I always thought the Equalizer concept of combining both was neat, which is fine in ideal road conditions. But it turns out that if you are in a situation where you have vertical movement of the TV relative to the trailer (a bump or hole), the pressure on the L brackets varies and can decrease significantly and you lose sway control. If this happens on a highway on-ramp for example or if you have to avoid an obstacle and you are not on a smooth level road, it could mean trouble.

As for the WD function, I needed a flexible means to buffer the vibrations and vertical displacements (e.g. road bumps) between the truck and trailer.

The solution was a separate sway control mechanism (Husky) combined with a 14000/1400 lbs capacity hitch (Eaz-Lift) with very tapered and flexible 1000 lbs bars which do all the flexing (a form of suspension) to minimize/smooth the stress transferred to the frame from the TV.

Andy worked with and tested many different hitches over the years (they installed many Hensley/ProPrides for example) and this one is the most flexible and least stressful for the trailer (he also chose it to hitch his Tesla to his Airstreams- he is regularly invited to give talks on towing with Teslas). He also recommended 10-12 psi in my Air Lift airbags to further reduce TV road vibrations since they offer a softer ride than the steel leaf springs (air pressure to be adjusted according to truck bed load), and to reduce rear tire pressure from the door jamb recommended 80 psi (air pressure to be adjusted according to truck bed load), and finally to replace the lowest bidder OEM chocks on the front end of the TV with Bilsteins for a more stable ride in rough conditions.

Andy test drove the rig with a sharp right-left obstacle avoidance manoeuver (my heart skipped a beat) and the rig snapped right back into position.

The ride home was great. It was a softer ride (my wife noticed it right off). On the 401 highway (from Toronto to Montreal, light Saturday traffic) we saw a trailer and TV turned over and jackknifed (both were totalled); the first responders (police, fire trucks, tow trucks) were there but there didn’t seem to be any injuries. It convinced us even more that it was worth the time and investment to get our rig properly set up (and better able to get onto ferries!). Safe driving!

Sent you a PM