My Equalizer hitch was damaging my Airstream!

[GOUSC]

I personally know 4 other people that had this issue. 2 of us had Equalizers, 1 had Blue Ox and 1 had ProPride. None of us has had any issue once the area was repaired.

I'm not an expert in this area. I just don't think the hitch is the root cause. However, I believe whatever hitch you have needs to be set up properly for your specific equipment to minimize any adverse affects to TV and RV.

[pteck]

The Gen-Y hitch is an interesting accessory.

What it adds for ride quality and comfort, it has the potential to reduce stability.

As mentioned earlier, some of the torsions bar force would be cancelled by the geometry and compliance of the Gen-Y hitch. Reducing WD hitch effectiveness.

Another consideration is that it adds overhang length. Increasing the distance from the ball to the rear axle. That's a key dimension to stability, because stability is often about wheelbase to the rear overhang ratio. It's why people pay big money for PPP type hitches to locate the virtual pivot closer to the rear axle. Yet with the Gen-Y hitch, it's adding what looks like 5 inches. That sounds small. But considering approximately a 3:1 wheelbase to rear overhang ratio of many trucks, that has a similar perceived effect of reducing wheelbase by 15 inches.

The overhang distance is a parameter often missed by many setting up rigs. They unknowingly use hitches that may actually have more projection for things like clearance between the tongue jack and tailgate. It's a big deal, and can lead down the slippery slope of believing excess WD tension is necessary for stability, or even a PPP hitch. All to compensate for what started with excess overhang.

May be better off by using a WD hitch setup with less WD tension. May also be better to use trucks actually laden with the expected payload. Excess payload capacity translates into an unessarily jarring ride for both passengers and trailer. Tire pressures can help here too.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Ultraclassic

Great post, I too have been lucky to find Can Am and Andy Thompson

The team at CanAm set up our rig 30ft Classic and our MB GL350d with a Reinforced hitch, shortened Shank, Eza lift WD, 2 Husky anti sway bars, and it tows like it is on rails

Our rig is set up and we are in the middle of a tour of Lake Superior. We get alot of questions from "other campers" Like " how does the SUV handle That trailer" How long is That trailer (as they look at the TV) etc...
Attachment 399881Attachment 399882Attachment 399883Attachment 399884Attachment 399885

FYI - all of your photo links are not showing in your post, & the links come with this error message:

<snipped>
vBulletin Message
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
<end snip>

So nobody can see your pix of "That Rig".

Cheers!
Tom
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[dmac]

A 3/4 ton truck and heavy bars must be factors, perhaps with improper hitch setup (?). Andy of Inland RV often commented about the damage done to Airstreams by the now popular heavy duty pickups.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by GOUSC

I personally know 4 other people that had this issue. 2 of us had Equalizers, 1 had Blue Ox and 1 had ProPride. None of us has had any issue once the area was repaired.

I'm not an expert in this area. I just don't think the hitch is the root cause. However, I believe whatever hitch you have needs to be set up properly for your specific equipment to minimize any adverse affects to TV and RV.

I presume that your AS skin to frame separation is right at the front panel to frame connections - which I don't have on my 1960 Avion T20.

However, further back I do need to re-rivet the forward belly pans' crosswise seam aft of the front frame & a few other places on our 1960 Avion T20 due to ovaling out of the rivet holes (about even with the forward edge of the door). And that cross seam & other spots where most are missing & loose is not attached to any frame member, & is only skin-to-skin connections.

Being 61 years old, I've assumed it's just age & long use - vs the apparent propensity for newer Airstreams to pop rivets that I hear from those I know with 2000-ish on AS's.

However, since you said that a ProPride owner has/had the OP's issue from the hitch - I want to make sure that it's not due to &/or hastened by improper set-up of my Hensley Cub. However, being here in SoCal I'm a long way from Andy T/CanAm, but we may eventually get up there on a trip) - so I can't bring it in to him for a check-up, & I'd want our permanent TV first (see TVs below).

Our 1960 Avion T20 is overall 20'-6" L, single axle with factory leaf springs/no-shocks & ST275/75R15 tires, & was factory listed at 2680 lbs (2680#) dry/empty/no-options, with 275# HW. They have fully boxed steel frame members - vs. C-channels on ASs - so tend to be a bit stiffer framed than ASs.

Our Avion is mostly stock renovated/restored, & currently is around 3000-3500# wet/loaded/options, & Sherline Scale weighed at 542# HW - with all full: 2x 30# LP tanks, uprated 27 gal poly fresh water tank at the front wall & factory dinette/bed with stuff in under seat storage & battery/inverter-charger/water-pump (perhaps close to the original factory option 20 gal aluminum pressure tank & pressure pump wt. on the 27 gal poly tank?), Tekonsha RF Brake Controller mounted on a 12"x18"x3/16" steel plate (to clear the Hensley's side struts/adjuster), & 160# Hensley Cub added to the A-frame's contribution to that HW.

Since we got it in July 2012 we've towed with a range of various rented TVs: from several 2012 Nissan 4.0L V6 AT Pathfinders (last year of prior body on frame version), F150 4wd Crew Cab & F250 4wd Crew Cab V8 & Dodge/RAM V8 4wd Crew Cab - in both gas & diesel power for the trucks. So far it's been cheaper to rent than care-&-feeding of owning a TV for 3-6 long weekend trips per year less that 2500 miles annually, but we'll buy something later now that my wife is retired & can travel more.

We ran very smoothly with the Pathfinders & F150s, but rougher with the 3/4 ton pick-ups due to their heavier & stiffer truck suspensions - 3/4 ton is overkill for our trailer, but mostly what Enterprise Truck Rental has on-hand locally.

PS - we hate the too tall & harsh riding 3/4 ton pick-ups, & will be looking at either Porsche Cayenne or similar mid-sized SUVs or perhaps Toyota Sequoyah as a permanent TV. The 3/4 T is way too much for our Avion & needs at 68 & 73!

For those who don't know, the Hensley Cub is a lighter duty Arrow for trailers up to 6000# & 600# HW & with 600# torsion bars, which are infinitely adjustable with the screw jacks (vs. chains on other WDs) - which I keep at around 1/3 up on the jacks' range - just enough to level the TV if needed (3/4 ton doesn't register more than 0 - 1/2" front end lift), & to get a smooth ride for the Avion (too little tension has the Avion bounce a bit more, even on 3/4 ton pick-ups).

No - I don't have the shortened stinger that Andy T recommends, but I don't know what else he & CanAm would do to fine tune our Hensley Cub set-up.

Any thoughts on either rivets popped/loose &/or hitch adjustments?

TIA & Cheers!
Tom
///////

[GOUSC]

Yes, my frame separation was at the front storage compartment to frame connections, of which there were none, and one of the other connections in the area of the skin at the rock guards that had snapped and come loose. You should reach out to someone who is an expert in this area as that is not me as to how this area should be prepared.

The below thread was posted yesterday and references another persons experience in this area. See post #1, item #2 as to their observations.


https://www.airforums.com/forums/f54...ml#post2517586

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, with out getting into too much detail, a correct set-up is important.

(1.) Six, and one half washers, is the magic number for my set-up.

(2.) I created the copper pipe modification that keeps the brackets from slipping on the frame.

(3.) I created the roll pin modification to the "L" clips that stops the binding on the spring bars.

(4.) For the most flexibility and leverage for the spring bars, you must mount your "L" brackets at the max distance of 32"s.

(5.) You need to remove the spring bar sockets, clean them, clean the head surfaces, grease the contact surfaces with the best axle grease that you can find, and torque the socket bolts to 65 lbs. This should be done once or twice a year, or two to three times during an Alaska or cross country trip. ( or when the groaning starts to annoy you ) Your mileage my vary.

[Mollysdad]

I'm a fan of the Equalizer system. Supremely adjustable although not always easy.
I'd like to see what it would be like with tapered bars to allow more progressive flex. I know Blue Ox makes a hitch that's got round tapered bars that ride in "L" brackets like the Equalizer.
Before I start some expensive experiment, does anyone have experience with BOTH the Equalizer AND Blue Ox (Sway Pro or Track Pro)?

No, I don't care how great your PPP is. (sorry ) This is a two hitch race.

[Ray Eklund]

I would like to see some photographs of your Tow Vehicle and Airstream connected.

The more, the better. It is difficult to visualize how you set your Equalizer Hitch without photos.

I always include photographs explaining my posts, so interested owners can SEE what I have been doing and satisfied with the setup.

Does adding a shell onto the pickup bed affect the towing? Does having 4wd or 2wd improve or hurt both tow vehicle and/or trailer?

Do you have a 3 inch Lift Kit installed?

How long is your Equalizer SHANK? Do you use shims on a 2 inch Shank to fit a 2 1/2 sleeve on your tow vehicle?

What size shank- 2 inch or 2 1/2 inch?

Cracked sleeves for the bars?

Your first post sounds absolutely anyone's worst nightmare. Most complain of Popped Rivets... which can be explained and repaired. Yours is a major problem. Why yours and not others? Does Tow Vehicle and Trailer Length have a BAD combination? Those who heard of 'others'... what others were using what combinations? Too little information to make any connection to the Hitch.

Short Bed or Long Bed? Shell?

Please add photographs.

(I use 1000# bars. Probably could use 750# bars used towing the 25 foot International. No issues with either. Just wondering where this leverage is being created. Could probably tow on the ball with a F350 suspension.)

...or is this a FAULTY FRAME from the supplier to Airstream?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'm a fan of the Equalizer system. Supremely adjustable although not always easy.
I'd like to see what it would be like with tapered bars to allow more progressive flex. I know Blue Ox makes a hitch that's got round tapered bars that ride in "L" brackets like the Equalizer.
Before I start some expensive experiment, does anyone have experience with BOTH the Equalizer AND Blue Ox (Sway Pro or Track Pro)?

No, I don't care how great your PPP is. (sorry ) This is a two hitch race.

I’d like to know that too. I have used both, but on different trailers, so my experience is not valid for comparison.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by RVDreamer

Nice, Thanks.

The one thing I still would worry about a little is the WD not working effectively due to the fact that when the Equalizer torsion bars apply pressure to the truck to shift the hitch weight to the rear axel of the truck, the Gen-Y would take out some of that torsion pressure by lifting at the torsion swivel point.

It seems like the hitch would counter act the weight shift leaving more weight on the hitch.

That wouldn't be a problem for a big truck with ample hitch weight capacity and you still would get enough friction on the torsion bars to counter act sway, but smaller trucks might not get enough hitch weight relief.

You could be right about that. Though I think you missed the point of the Gen-Y hitch, it's to increase flex in suspension needed with a larger truck. A smaller truck would not need anywhere near as much help with this since it has a much softer suspension already.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Gen-Y in Gen-Y Speak meaning PPP design?


HaHa Bob
🇺🇸

[thewarden]

It is the trailer sway that I am worried about. I tow a 27FB with a 1 ton Duramax that would benefit from the Gen-Y, but how do you accomplish sway control?

[Bill_H80]

Originally Posted by thewarden

It is the trailer sway that I am worried about. I tow a 27FB with a 1 ton Duramax that would benefit from the Gen-Y, but how do you accomplish sway control?

My same boat … I’m not worried so much about WD as much as I am about controlling sway. I’ve been looking at a lot of different options and the front runner, today, is a GenY Shank + Equalizer WD setup to help with sway.

[RVDreamer]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

You could be right about that. Though I think you missed the point of the Gen-Y hitch, it's to increase flex in suspension needed with a larger truck. A smaller truck would not need anywhere near as much help with this since it has a much softer suspension already.

A smaller truck should have a softer suspension (not always true) but this isn't the only reason for the Gen-Y hitch. The principle behind the Gen-Y hitch is that it decouples the tow vehicle from the trailer so that each one can handle road conditions independently.

When the hitch system is too stiff and too coupled together, if the truck bounces on a bump then the trailer bounces on the bump twice. Once when the truck hits it initially and once when the trailer hits the same bump again. This results in a lot of wear and tear on the trailer frame and suspension. If the tow vehicle is decoupled from the trailer then in the same situation the trailer only bounces once because it isn't effected the first time when the truck hits the bump.

[nryn]

I have had front end frame separation. The visible signs were pretty subtle (a slight crease in the lower rub rail). When I brought it to JC and told my service advisor that I was getting some water in the front compartment when it was raining out, he knew exactly what it was. Service tech who walked me through all of the repairs after they were done explained front end separation to me, how it’s really a production problem, and how they fix it. I asked him if I had done anything wrong and he was pretty adamant that no, I should continue doing what I have been doing.

I brought my Globetrotter to Alaska and back, which is not an easy trip. WD on my ProPride was set modestly but I ran my tires near the maximum pressure (there are so many potholes on the Alaskan Highway). Maybe that didn’t help. I popped maybe 2-3 rivets on the entire trip. I do run much lower PSI now on the trailer and truck tires and have dialed back my WD significantly (I have a 3/4 ton truck so I don’t need a lot).

I’ve come to believe that it’s probably a very good thing for a new Airstream owner to have frame separation issues while the trailer is under warranty. JC knows how to fix them and from what I can tell fixes the issue for the long haul.

[Bill M.]

Going through sharp dips with a stiff truck and stiff bars would seem to be the thing that would damage the trailer frame. Softer truck suspension or more flex in bars or Gen X would all seem to help. Even though the system flexes it still transmits torque to restore front end weight. But it does not generate the huge increases in torque that a stiffer system in a dip does.

[Ephraim]

I recently ran across this video and throughly enjoyed both the content and the presentation. but it does underscore why I don't like the equalizer. It's too hard to adjust the spring tension on the fly. WD hitches have their place, but there are problems that come with them. I recently had a visit to Vinnie's Airstream Repair (Wilton, CA) and he showed me that I was using too much tension and the problems it was already causing. I have a 3P hitch with 1400lb bars. I'm changing them out for 1000lb bars now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCgRiVNaXFc

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

I would like to see some photographs of your Tow Vehicle and Airstream connected.

The more, the better. It is difficult to visualize how you set your Equalizer Hitch without photos.

I always include photographs explaining my posts, so interested owners can SEE what I have been doing and satisfied with the setup.

Does adding a shell onto the pickup bed affect the towing? Does having 4wd or 2wd improve or hurt both tow vehicle and/or trailer?

Do you have a 3 inch Lift Kit installed?

How long is your Equalizer SHANK? Do you use shims on a 2 inch Shank to fit a 2 1/2 sleeve on your tow vehicle?

What size shank- 2 inch or 2 1/2 inch?

Cracked sleeves for the bars?

Your first post sounds absolutely anyone's worst nightmare. Most complain of Popped Rivets... which can be explained and repaired. Yours is a major problem. Why yours and not others? Does Tow Vehicle and Trailer Length have a BAD combination? Those who heard of 'others'... what others were using what combinations? Too little information to make any connection to the Hitch.

Short Bed or Long Bed? Shell?

Please add photographs.

(I use 1000# bars. Probably could use 750# bars used towing the 25 foot International. No issues with either. Just wondering where this leverage is being created. Could probably tow on the ball with a F350 suspension.)

...or is this a FAULTY FRAME from the supplier to Airstream?

I can't show you the former Equalizer setup since the shank has been rebolted to the new head.

Some of your questions do point to the underlying issue (for example long or short bed, it's a 6.5'), long or shorter shank (standard, but Andy suggested cutting it a bit shorter, to improve sway control, but I wouldn't be able to lower my tailgate if I did).

I will eventually draw a diagram of this but essentially it's mechanical physics; for example, if the TV front axel goes up (up a ramp, up a bump, etc.) before the rear axel, you get a leverage effect with the rear axel being the fulcrum, and the 1200# WD bars being the end point, pressing down on the L brackets.

Given the truck wheel base length and the distance between the L brackets and the rear axel (the fulcrum), the laws of mechanical physics indicate that you are getting a tremendous amount of pressure on the L brackets, since you are leveraging the length of the truck wheel base to the fulcrum (the rear axel) and then leveraging the distance from the rear axel to the L brackets (in that case the longer the better, except for sway control, but that distance is a lot smaller than the truck wheel base; this is less of an issue for a car for example which has a shorter wheel base). If the bars are stiff like the 1200# bars are, then something has to give, and it's the frame that flexes. In my case it is about a 2 : 1 multiplier effect based on wheel base length and bracket to rear axel distance.

Reducing the rear tire pressure helps (it lowers the fulcrum as they flex, and also reduces road vibration) but the real solution is for the WD bars to flex and not transfer all that pressure directly to the L brackets and frame. That is the suspension effect.

Here is a picture of the old and new WD bars, the square Equalizer bars were 1.5" end to end, the new bars taper out to 1/2" and are round. They are a somewhat like a leaf spring. They are less able to transfer weight, not being as stiff as the Equalizer bars (and being 1000# as opposed to 1200# bars), but then, with a 3/4 ton truck and it's load capacity, there is no need (or ability) to transfer much weight to the front axel anyway, and the weight of the diesel engine keeps it well grounded. And I can use the AirLift airbags to fine tune the leveling of the trailer. But with the Can Am setup, things look pretty level as it is, but it can be affected by the load in the truck bed which will vary depending on the length of the trip and season(s).

As to whether it is something particular to my trailer (frame, etc.), time will tell, but for sure I will be much more aware (and careful) about road dynamics and the effects on the rig (like detaching the bars when on heavily uneven terrain, no bars, no pressure on the frame).

I view an Airstream as a thoroughbred racing horse, you have to be a bit more careful about how you handle and take care of it than a Clysdale (I doubt they have front end separation with SOBs).

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

I recently ran across this video and throughly enjoyed both the content and the presentation. but it does underscore why I don't like the equalizer. It's too hard to adjust the spring tension on the fly.

Phew! That was painful.
He's right, but I needed earplugs.