Made a mistake going to Land Cruiser from Suburban 2500

[jholder]

Originally Posted by TomKirk

There's nothing like a 3/4 ton Suburban.

Tom

True and ironically gets better gas mileage even towing than the Land Cruiser. Had it checked over this week and my service guy said "don't even think about getting rid of this truck!"

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Originally Posted by m.hony

So...
Keep towing with the Suburban and keep the Land Cruise too?

I think so. Save the miles on the LC and pile them on the Sub. I am in real estate, so wanted something a bit newer for everyday. And we camp so often its awfully nice to just keep the Sub all packed and ready to roll!

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by TomKirk

There's nothing like a 3/4 ton Suburban.

Tom

I've heard that, but have never had one. I believe they are no longer made... is that true? Only the 1/2 ton...

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Chaplain Kent

Since I switched back to a trailer from my classic motorhome I have only towed with a large SUV and none of the compact models like the Suburban so I cannot comment on those; however, I want to comment on using a vehicle for tow only. My King of the SUV, Excursion is a tow only vehicle. It is not friendly for city driving and I live in the city. The X is wider than the lines painted on most parking lots and taller than the roofs of most parking ramps. Street parking in the city means putting money in two meters. As a tow only I either have to take it out regularly for exercise or store it properly when not in use. Sadly, I do neither and admit my shortcomings and for this I have paid dearly for the oversight with frozen calipers on two separate trips. A brake job on a vehicle with both drums and discs is costly. Now before each trip it goes to my corner mechanic who lubricates everything, refills the oil my 7.3 has shed and makes the X roadworthy. If it was not the best tow vehicle ever produced I would find something more practical.

Too wide for parking lots? Looks like my F350 with a cap on the back, and that fits in any normal parking space.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

And there you have it. The LC is designed as an on-off road luxury vehicle; as such it will have a soft suspension designed for off road wheel articulation and on road soft ride. Your Sub has a very tight suspension designed for loads and towing. Try towing with a Ford Raptor compared to a Ford Super Duty and you will find the same difference. I think the shorter wheelbase had less to do with the towing experience than the suspension set up.

This likely hits the nail on the head. How level does the LC sit with the trailer on the ball? I bet it's squatting pretty good.

There's still hope!

The issue is compounded than simply sagging with the soft suspension. With the rear end squatting, the caster at the front axle is effectively reduced. Now you have a poor tracking car, that doesn't self center well. Perhaps it feels like pendulum?

Key to this, even more than a nice pivot projecting hitch, is to get airbags to level the rear. That will bring the caster back into check, and you'll have a imminently stable LC again.

Tricks like a short stinger, good sway management, etc. all still apply.

Funny thing is that a LX570 won't experience the above with it's nice automatic hydraulic leveling suspension.

[slowmover]

Problem with LC is only partly about wheelbase. Crude suspension and high COG is more of it.

[jholder]

Originally Posted by pteck

This likely hits the nail on the head. How level does the LC sit with the trailer on the ball? I bet it's squatting pretty good.



There's still hope!



The issue is compounded than simply sagging with the soft suspension. With the rear end squatting, the caster at the front axle is effectively reduced. Now you have a poor tracking car, that doesn't self center well. Perhaps it feels like pendulum?



Key to this, even more than a nice pivot projecting hitch, is to get airbags to level the rear. That will bring the caster back into check, and you'll have a imminently stable LC again.



Tricks like a short stinger, good sway management, etc. all still apply.



Funny thing is that a LX570 won't experience the above with it's nice automatic hydraulic leveling suspension.

Oddly enough, we also have the Lexus LX as well, but the suspension becomes the exact issue. It's rated less towing capacity than the LC due to that system. They really don't recommend towing for that one (of significant weight) due to the stress it puts on the adjustable suspension. That's why we never considered pulling our 28 w the LX.

[smlbob]

I've towed my FC 27' many miles across the country with my 2015 Sequoia. No problems. Equalizer hitch, air lifts on the TV. Guess it's a personal preference.

[GettinAway]

We towed our 23FB with our LC. No issues. It handled the load with ease. It is a 04 LC though. Don't know if the newer ones have a softer suspension. It was slightly underpowered, but not a lot. The biggest problem I had was the small gas tank, and poor fuel mileage. Makes for too many stops.

[jholder]

Originally Posted by GettinAway

We towed our 23FB with our LC. No issues. It handled the load with ease. It is a 04 LC though. Don't know if the newer ones have a softer suspension. It was slightly underpowered, but not a lot. The biggest problem I had was the small gas tank, and poor fuel mileage. Makes for too many stops.

Yes, that additional 5 feet makes a difference. The 27FB is actually 28 feet plus tongue. But, yes....the tiny gas tank drives me crazy!

[GettinAway]

I haven't pulled a 25, let alone a 27. Plus they are wider than my little 23. I sure can relate to trying to get one vehicle to do it all. I ended up going to a Tundra for towing and around the farm, and a small Infinity for a daily driver. My wife loves the LC, so we will keep it forever. I think she's put 20,000 miles on it in the last four years. We always buy used. The price of a new one is a little steep for my taste. Good luck with your situation. I hope things work out.

[bobmiller1]

So I guess your 3/4 ton Surburban is worth more than $10,000.00 Seeing that they don't even make one any more I'm sure you could sell yours for more than that. Try pricing one out....you'll see. I've been towing my 34' Classic S/O with my 2004 3/4 Yukon XL Quadrasteer......could not imagine using anything else. Regards. Bob

[dstalzer]

There is no substitute for a heavy tow vehicle with a long wheel base when it comes to towing safety.

[outdoors717]

Just crossing over 200k on our 2009 1500 Suburban (black). She towed our 23ft 09 International from when we got it. It was the every day driver for the wife as well. Cabot trail in Nova Scotia to crazy drives to Polebridge Montana every October. Wheelbase was great, but I do agree a good setup can alleviate ones shorter wheelbase concerns. The 1500 is retired to only Michigan driving now and no towing.

Last year I snagged a 2012 2500(silver). Had to file a complaint with GM over the dealer taking a deposit (sizable) and then trying to raise the price on me after threatening to sell it to someone else. I have towed from MI out to Maryland and back. Then out to Montana and back. I can say it is a night and day difference compared to the 1500. More than anything is the engine and trans not fighting all the time. I swear it can hold 5th gear up a mountain sometimes with two canoes and a fully loaded trailer.

All the Suburban loving aside. I have always wanted a Land Cruiser. Even thought about selling both Suburbs to buy one. I get offers for the 2500 filling up gas (live near GM proving grounds). I am just not thinking its the thing to do. I have learned so much about the Suburban and what to look for as they age, not sure I want to start over with a new rig.

They do still make the 2500 Suburban even in the new body style. They are models sold to Armorers/Fleet. They aren't cheap either. So I doubt you will be seeing them anytime soon unless it has some flags flying at the front of them....http://www.gmfleet.com/chevrolet/sub...-duty-suv.html

[jholder]

You will be glad you kept the suburban. The other issue with the Land Cruiser was the tiny gas tank. On my last trip, I figured out that I would've had to stop with the Land Cruiser nine times at only 24 gallons and 7-8mpg.

[m.hony]

What makes towing with a new Land Cruiser different than towing with a Tundra?
Shorter wheelbase?
Independent rear suspension?

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Originally Posted by m.hony

What makes towing with a new Land Cruiser different than towing with a Tundra?
Shorter wheelbase?
Independent rear suspension?

Exactly. The shorter wheelbase.

[pteck]

Suspension primarily setup for articulation rather than load bearing.

[switz]

Started my Airstram experience with a 2013 25FB International Serenity and a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel. I took five days (drove 2,200 miles each way and one day there) to Andy Thompson at CanAm in London, Ontario, CA. We reinforced the receiver and shortened and slightly bent the straight Hensley stinger to preload the weight distribution system. That worked well coming from the dealership in California to Phoenix as a new empty trailer. After loading ir for camping, the Mercedes complained and we got a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins. Cured towing issues.

We traded the 25FB in on a 31' Classic keeping the Hensley Arrow but installing the second generation Jim Hensley hitch design called the ProPride or PPP.

We decided to get a 23D International Serenity for short weekend trips so the Merceds and Hensley Arrow were pressed back into service. The 23D was a perfect combination for the Mercedes, especially after stopping at CanAm on the way home from New Jersey for Andy to fine tune the rig. One would think it was on steel rails. The 23D has upgraded 15" wheels and Michelin tires that I took to the dealership. That elevated the 23D from the stock 14" tires and wheels to the same elevation as the 25FB which was on the same size Michelin tires. All the settings worked from the 25FB to the 23D.

Too bad the engine had a third repeat of a chronic $3,500 repair at 205,000 so the Mercedes left the fleet. The truck also had a Hensley stinger from towing the 25FB so now it could tow either trailer by switching stingers.

So I tried a 2020 Highlander with 4x4 V6 gas engine. It lacked the suspension to try and mess with towing the 23D. It too is now history and there is now a 2021 (built in DEC 2020) silver Land Cruiser. Tweaks on order are Firestone coil spring airbags, a Tuson DL 200NE brake controller (like on the RAM), and an Australian 12.5 gallon auxiliary gas tank the will fit above the spare tire.

The 23D gets a 3" lift kit, disc brakes, 15" 6 lug SenDel wheels to replace the five lug 15" SenDel wheels required for the original 10" drum brakes, Tuson disc brake controller as well an the Tuscon DL 200NE hand control system and a PPP which to. place the Hensley Arrow. Will upgrade the thermostat and television while doing all this. Will have a spare 23D stinger so either the truck more the Land Cruiser can tow the 23D.

[GettinAway]

That fuel tank will be a great add on. My only complaint while pulling our old 2011 23FB with our 04 LC was the fuel range.