Land Rover LR3 towing story

[reventlow]

A friend of mine with an 8 year old daughter bought a 25' CCD at about the same time I bought my 28' CCD.
She saw an LR3 Land Rover liked it and asked LR dealer about towing the Airstream.
They said it was perfect for the job. Cut a long story short she has had 2
total failures of the LR hitch just popping out of its receptacle. Luckily both
incidents were very low speed as the hitch piece that came out of the receptacle had safety brake wire and chains attached to it. The story would be frightening if it had happened at highway speeds. The 2nd incident happened last Friday in west Texas. Land Rover said it was her problem. She has rented a Dodge truck to tow the Airstream to Reno where she is moving to and has had LR3 flat bedded to Reno. Land Rover made a poor judgement call not helping her or even offering a Range Rover to pull trailer to her destination.
According to her she showed Land Rover dealer the specs before she bought, she brought the Airstream to them hitched to LR3 and they approved it, this was an equalizer type hitch.
Conclusion: Any prospective buyer wishing to use Land Rover LR3 to tow a trailer better check it out carefully. Land Rover does not clearly specify tongue weights, use of equalizer type hitches and other data essential to setting up or determining if their LR3 is suitable for towing medium sized travel trailers, in this instance a 25' CCD Airstream.
At present this is all the info I have and am posting this FYI.

[bredlo]

Originally Posted by reventlow

She has rented a Dodge truck to tow the Airstream to Reno where she is moving to and has had LR3 flat bedded to Reno...

Wow, that kinda sums up the whole thing right there, huh? When you have to tow your tow vehicle, and your spare tow vehicle outperforms your regular one, maybe the spare suits the need better than the original!

[Silvertwinkie]

Pretty much says it all. We've said before several times around here that the LR is not a good choice for larger coaches. Not sure what else can be said to say it better than what was posted here.

[markdoane]

Rev,

It sounds like there is something wrong with the hitch receiver. The 'hitch piece' shouldn't just pop out of the receptacle. And the brake cable and safety chains should not be attached to the hitch piece/head. Has she had the installation inspected by a reputable mechanic?

The LR3 should have enough tow capacity (7700#) and load capacity (1695#) to handle a trailer this size. The wheelbase is less than optimal, but the vehicle has the torque and horsepower to do the job.

I don't understand the part about Land Rover providing her with a Range Rover to tow her trailer to Reno.

[67caravel]

The problem with LR specs is that they are written to low range towing... Nobody at LR seems to know what they can tow.

I've been down this before with LR. I towed a Caravel with an '01 Disco 2 with the same tow ratings as the LR3... It was a miserable experience mainly because of low power. The Range Rover shares the same towing specs. Heck, they all do except the Freelander, as far as I know.

However, that being said, the LR3 has over 300 HP and a six speed auto. But, the "3" is based on a unibody suspension which is quite different from the Disco. The old Disco was built on rails. It was stiff and strong, terrifically so.

I've meant to lurk some of the LR3 forums to see what they are up to insofar as towing is concerned. I suspect that the 3 is fine for smaller coaches like my 22' CCD.

Finally, I've owned a dozens of different vehicles in my life (I once worked for a Detroit manufacturer's finance arm). There was a time when I would have 3 or 4 different vehicles a year. Once you own a Land Rover you understand it as a very different ownership experience. Customer care is beyond belief. You are treated like a king or queen. And, some of the quirky attributes of the British become longed for when you get into another brand. I loved my Land Rovers (they just wouldn't tow my CCD...) and miss them. I look at the LR3 with desire.

I hope we can continue this thread from others who have experienced towing with the LR3. If I learn more, I'll post.

[reventlow]

Sorry if I was not clear about Range Rover in my attempt to be brief.
The lady who owns the LR3 was unwilling to tow her Airstream with the LR3 after 2 failures. Understandable with an 8 year old. She asked Land Rover to lend her a Range Rover as it has higher tow ratings to finish her trip from Texas to Reno (her destination). They refused to help her, hardly a good choice.

[markdoane]

Rev,

You haven't said why a Range Rover might be better than the LR3.

If the failure was the the hitch popping out of the receptacle, then a vehicle with a higher tow rating isn't going to help.

Did the entire hitch receiver detach from the vehicle body? If the whole thing fell off, that's an assembly problem, and warranty work.

Trying to understand exactly what happened.

[67caravel]

The posted tongue weight limit for the LR3 and the Range Rover is #550 (a readily available specification) and therein lies the problem, IMHO. The specs on a 25' CCD are ~#5,200 dry and a #740 hitch weight. Clearly, the 25' exceeds the towing specs of either the LR3 or the Range Rover by a wide margin.

I can easily imagine why the hitch failed.

[Silvertwinkie]

I can see why it failed too and we've been on this subject before, so it should come as no shock to most on the forum. I can also see why they refused to lend her a Range Rover or offer to tow her coach. I could see them paying her back for some of the costs, but even to me asking for another truck to compete a trip seems like an unreasonable request. I mean how does the company know what a sales person at a dealership promised? Did she get something in writing from either the dealer or the maufac about the tow ability mentioned? If so she might have some legal grounds, but if she's only got some smile and a handshake from the dealer and/or salesperson.....

Bottom line, when you're spending a LOT of money on something (or any amount for that matter) particularly when you are talking about items that can be safety issues, there really isn't any short cut to doing your own homework. Clearly from what has been posted, the end user did not do enough research on the issue before making the purchase. What she did was IMHO not enough. I've found more times than not where sales folks (and mind you I was in sales too) would sell their parents or first born for a sale......it's up to the consumer to look at all the info and make a decision that way, not by what a sales person says.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Xray

The posted tongue weight limit for the LR3 and the Range Rover is #550 (a readily available specification) and therein lies the problem, IMHO.

I submit. I looked for the number, but couldn't find it. All I could find was the total load rating.

Good catch.

[67caravel]

Twink is right. It's easy to lay blame on the dealer. Problem was, somebody was contemplating a $100,000 or so investment in the LR3 and 25' CCD and didn't do their due diligence.

Here's how easy it was to find the LR3 tongue weight spec:

I Googled "LR3 tongue weight" (seems pretty straight forward).
Take a look a the very first result in the google list. (click here)

FYI, here's the official screen from Land Rover's site:

[basecamp]

I find it very odd about the 550lb tongue weight limit. I looked into the LR3. It has a capacity of 7700lbs however I believe the only hitch you can get for the LR# from LR is a class III. The Range Rover does have a heavier hitch, it's at least a class IV. Land Rover should not be giving a spec of 7700LBs if they don't recommend a heavier hitch. I think they are specifying the tow rating based on the engine/transmission but LR won't setup the LR3 to tow what they say they can tow...

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by basecamp

I find it very odd about the 550lb tongue weight limit. I looked into the LR3. It has a capacity of 7700lbs however I believe the only hitch you can get for the LR# from LR is a class III. The Range Rover does have a heavier hitch, it's at least a class IV. Land Rover should not be giving a spec of 7700LBs if they don't recommend a heavier hitch. I think they are specifying the tow rating based on the engine/transmission but LR won't setup the LR3 to tow what they say they can tow...

I agree. A good rule of thumb is that hitch weight should be between 10 to 15% of the coach weight. If you go by these numbers alone, that's a min of 770lb hitch weight.

Clearly LR has a target market for their products and in this particular case, clearly some of the vehicle's ratings were exceeded significantly in which case she's lucky if she gets a dime. This reminds me of my conversation with my insurance agent after the posts here about what an insurer would do if you were negligent in doing something like this where it caused a problem where loss of your property, the property of others or injury or loss of life occurred. They told me that they would "most likely pay the claims" but that they'd most likely be dropped shortly thereafter. Once that happens, getting insurance is nearly impossible under 3x the going rate, if not more, let alone any civil suits that insurance may or may not cover.....

In the end the woman in question is VERY lucky neither her, her daughter or anyone else was injured or killed as a result of not doing her homework. Just my opinion FWIW.

[markdoane]

If we assume the 550# tongue limit is a european peculiarity, that doesn't settle my mind about why the hitch is just popping out of the receptacle. That's still the only physical complaint I heard from Reventlow.

Not a word abut it not being a strong puller or lacking torque, just that the hitch failed.

Is it a design feature of the LR3 that the hitch pops out above 550#? I still don't understand the failure mode. Is the design different that the normal class III/IV hitch bar?

[Silvertwinkie]

Not sure Don, but I typically go by what the manufac states in the specs. In this case she exceeded the listed specs by a few hundred pounds and at that point it simply, IMHO becomes a moot point. I am not sure on this but the LR3 could be a unibody, if that's the case, that could one reason, but others who have one or have seen one could comment if this is true or not. If not, then it could simply be a hitch type thing. I know that a person on this forum had a more than robust tow vehicle, yet when they got a slide out, they needed a new hitch since the factory hitch was not strong enough to handle the added hitch loads of a slide out. In this particular case, with a 113" wheelbase (if I read it correctly), perhaps they designed it in the drivetrain correctly, but listed the lower hitch weight as a way of saying if the axle config on the trailer is such that it takes most of the 7700lbs your in good shape, but that would clearly buck the status quo of 10-15%....then again, what do you expect from the English.

[Pschoerrn]

Actually I don´t know how this could happen, but 770lbs Hitchweight is way to high for a LR3.

The specs are based on the european regulations. Trailerweights are allowed upto a max of 3500kg (7700 lbs) and overhere the tounge weight is not 10% to 15% its more 5%. Most European car manufacturers have a max. hitchweight of 150kg (330lbs) or less overhere. The only one I found upto now is Landrover with their 250kg (550lbs) hitchweight.

Toungeweight in Europe is often much less then in the US, due to a totally different axle position on the trailer, overhere the axles are nearly in the middle of the trailer, why? Don´t ask me, maybe because of the less toungweight!?

I would guess that nearly 90% of the trailers have a toungeweight between 75kg and 100 kg (165 lbs to 220 lbs)

BTW Towing speed is limited to 80km/h (48 m/h) same speedlimit for the trucks. Only a few trailers are allowed to go faster (100 km/h or 62 m/h) depending on the TV and the Trailer.

Just my .02 Cents

Bjoern

[reventlow]

There still seems to be some question about the brief story I posted about this lady's bad experience towing with the LR3.
She told me that she had bought the Airstream and was looking for a tow vehicle. She saw the LR3 and liked it. She then went to Land Rover and asked them if this LR3 was suitable to tow a 25CCD and showed them the specs. The reputation of salesmen aside she asked LR sales if the LR3 could tow this trailer. I also had difficulty finding the tongue weight spec for an LR3 but it is my opinion that when someone asks about this there should be an easier way to find out what a vehicle can tow. As a woman she did what she assumed to be best. All the suggestions I read assume that the salesperson will sell anything. So be it, this is where there should be a standard by which a consumer can "easily" determine that a trailer with such and such specs can or can not be safely pulled by whichever SUV is chosen. Personally I did not find many competent salespeople when I went looking for a tow vehicle for my first Airstream the 28CCD. It took me several weeks to settle on buying a GMC 2500 4X4 Duramax.
The LR3 hitch system is still not clear to me as I've not seen one. She described to me that the hitch ball carrier (sorry I've not got the correct terminology) has the ball, the safety chains and emergency brake cable attached to it. It seemingly locks into place, there does not seem to be a pin like on a reguler class IV hitch. Not the best design.
The lady did not want to tow the trailer, for obvious reasons, with the LR3. She asked Land Rover to lend her a Range Rover which has a heavier hitch.
She was trying to solve the problem of being in Texas and wanting to tow the Airstream to Reno. Land Rover would not help her and she ended up renting (very, very hard to find) a tow vehicle for a 7000 lb trailer. She was very resourceful and found a Dodge truck in Lubbock which she has to return to Lubbock from Reno. Quite expensive!
Does not read like your ideal vacation trip with your 8 year old daughter.
Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail? Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.

[67caravel]

Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail?

Yep, when lives are on the line. Traveling by motor vehicle is inherently dangerous - without a trailer.

Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.

The resources are virtually endless. Try here, for instance. And, the internet is chocked full of forums and reference materials. The lady with the LR3 could have ascertained the limits of the TV very easily with a few minutes of research. She should never have towed a 25' with it.

But, that's all water under the bridge now. This was a bad experience resulting from bad information. I hope we don't lose her as an Airstreamer!

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by reventlow

Does the average person really need to check everything out to the last tiny detail? Where is that person who wants to go RVing in a nice Airstream supposed to go to get just basic info on what can and will tow her trailer.

As Xray said, you better believe it and he's right, there are lots of sources on the web. I however would not call this situation a small detail, it's a fairly large one.

In a simialr situation, say, a doctor's info on needed work, I don't typically go under the knife without doing a bit of research and/or getting a few other opinions until I fully understand what I'm getting into, but that's just me, I'm sure lots of folks just do what the first person says is right. In this case, I feel she was very lucky, because it could have been far worse than a few bucks to rent a Dodge, a few busted hitches and a flatbed to the LR dealer.

I suppose I'd consider this a learning exp for her, but send here here and folks here will take great care of her and point her in the correct direction!

[Pschoerrn]

Originally Posted by reventlow

The LR3 hitch system is still not clear to me as I've not seen one. She described to me that the hitch ball carrier (sorry I've not got the correct terminology) has the ball, the safety chains and emergency brake cable attached to it. It seemingly locks into place, there does not seem to be a pin like on a reguler class IV hitch. Not the best
design.

It should look like this one... Taken from Land Rover Homepage. It is a detachable Version, so maybe that caused the failure??