interesting comments from U-Haul

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by jcl

No, I am suggesting you remove less load from the front axle. Driver training teaches that you should try to steer out of a situation instead of simply slamming the brakes on, towing or not. My primary concern personally with no FALR would be related to steering, and that is why I listed it first (perhaps you didn't notice), but RAM expand their caution in the owner's manual, when discussing using WD equipment. Notice the reference to braking control:



If you lighten the front axle, you can encounter a situation whereby the front wheels can lose traction. We likely agree about forward weight transfer, but that doesn't happen until the vehicle has started to decelerate. The concern is over braking control IMO, not over ultimate braking power, which you are focusing on. But if you think it is foolish, you should perhaps write to RAM and tell them so. Maybe they will listen to you. Use words like fool, it may help your case

If you have too much load on the front axle your vehicle will understeer and when you try to brake and swerve to avoid an accident it might not work. Another good reason to have more weight on the rear. Seriously, forget about this nonsensical FALR concept. It's confusing you and the other hitch people and resulting in bad weight distribution.

Of course if you take too much off the front wheels you're going to have a different problem, but nobody is suggesting that. There is an ideal weight distribution for each rig which also depends on what type of accident you want to avoid the most. Nobody is ever going to agree exactly on what that is, but everyone, or almost everyone, agrees it is not to have more weight on the front than on the back.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by out of sight

If you have too much load on the front axle your vehicle will understeer and when you try to brake and swerve to avoid an accident it might not work. Another good reason to have more weight on the rear. Seriously, forget about this nonsensical FALR concept. It's confusing you and the other hitch people and resulting in bad weight distribution.

Of course if you take too much off the front wheels you're going to have a different problem, but nobody is suggesting that. There is an ideal weight distribution for each rig which also depends on what type of accident you want to avoid the most. Nobody is ever going to agree exactly on what that is, but everyone, or almost everyone, agrees it is not to have more weight on the front than on the back.

Correction....if you take weight OFF your front axle, you WILL understeer as your tires will not have enough traction to change direction; it will also reduce your braking effectiveness.
You want weight on your front axle.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[rmkrum]

But the RIGHT amount of weight. Too little is every bit as bad as too much. That’s why FALR is an important concept, and often clearly specified by the vehicle manufacturer an to the percentage to be returned.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Correction....if you take weight OFF your front axle, you WILL understeer as your tires will not have enough traction to change direction; it will also reduce your braking effectiveness.
You want weight on your front axle.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

Wrong. The heavier the load on the front the more it will understeer. Front heavy cars, cars with FWD, understeer. Traction is not the issue. It's because of the inertia owing to the higher load.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

But the RIGHT amount of weight. Too little is every bit as bad as too much. That’s why FALR is an important concept, and often clearly specified by the vehicle manufacturer an to the percentage to be returned.

I don't like the FALR concept. Yes it will ameliorate an unbalanced load condition but it doesn't get to the question of what is the best weight distribution for vehicle stability.

[Profxd]

Wait time out! Understeer/Oversteer misuse infraction! A vehicle alone with more weight on the front is in a understeer condition. A vehicle/trailer with high TW shifts to oversteer. The same combo with WD applied now has more oversteer than before. Continue!

[NavyCorpsman]

This is all because of the Y2K Bug. It's where conjecture meets reality.

Just a small shot of Airstream Ball Lube and life is good. (With or Without WD).

Thanks to all.

[overlander63]

Looks like some people need to learn what some of these terms they're throwing round really mean, not just what they think they mean.
1-UNDERSTEER= the car continues in a straight line when you turn the steering wheel.
2-OVERSTEER= the rear end tries to move to the outside of the turn.
3-WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION= using Archimedes principle of leverage to lever a portion of the tongue weight back to the front axle of the tow vehicle, where the weight of the tongue had removed it, also by Archimedes' principle of leverage by the distance between the rear axle and ball mount.
4-AXLE WEIGHT RATIO= the percentage of a vehicle's total weight as placed on each axle.

[overlander63]

Out of sight, you are going to have to explain to me how you are able to move 50% of your trailer's tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle without using any kind of levering device, such as weight distribution bars. Type slow, so I can follow along without getting lost.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Out of sight, you are going to have to explain to me how you are able to move 50% of your trailer's tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle without using any kind of levering device, such as weight distribution bars. Type slow, so I can follow along without getting lost.

I don't move the tongue weight. I leave it all on the ball to balance out the weight of the 1000 lb. diesel engine that is sitting over the front axle. The result is that the truck, which is 2" high in the back when unloaded, is now perfectly level and my front and rear axles are equally loaded.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by out of sight

I don't move the tongue weight. I leave it all on the ball to balance out the weight of the 1000 lb. diesel engine that is sitting over the front axle. The result is that the truck, which is 2" high in the back when unloaded, is now perfectly level and my front and rear axles are equally loaded.

Then why in the hell have you posted repeatedly in this thread that you have 50/50 weight distribution when you haven't done a damned thing to distribute it? At best, you need to choose your words and phrases more carefully.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Then why in the hell have you posted repeatedly in this thread that you have 50/50 weight distribution when you haven't done a damned thing to distribute it? At best, you need to choose your words and phrases more carefully.

You're talking about the distribution of the tongue weight. When I talk about weight distribution I'm talking about how the weight of the entire truck and payload rests on the front and rear axles.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Wrong. The heavier the load on the front the more it will understeer. Front heavy cars, cars with FWD, understeer. Traction is not the issue. It's because of the inertia owing to the higher load.

Somebody needs to back to school and re-take the grade 10 physics course you obviously failed.
Think about it.....stand on a skateboard and push off; transfer your weight to the back of the board until no weight is on the front wheels; and try and turn. Even if the wheels are turned, the board will not turn; it will understeer.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by out of sight

You're talking about the distribution of the tongue weight. When I talk about weight distribution I'm talking about how the weight of the entire truck and payload rests on the front and rear axles.

Ahhhh....un-hitched that explains the lack of weight tickets.
You're not toeing anything.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Somebody needs to back to school and re-take the grade 10 physics course you obviously failed.
Think about it.....stand on a skateboard and push off; transfer your weight to the back of the board until no weight is on the front wheels; and try and turn. Even if the wheels are turned, the board will not turn; it will understeer.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

There is plenty of info on understeer and oversteer available online. I suggest you study it and then get into a FWD vehicle and try making some fast turns. You'll see I'm right.

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Ahhhh....un-hitched that explains the lack of weight tickets.
You're not toeing anything.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

Only because you were nice enough to show me yours:

[out of sight]

Originally Posted by robert cross

ahhhh....un-hitched that explains the lack of weight tickets.
You're not toeing anything.😂

bob
🇺🇸

[jcl]

Originally Posted by out of sight

Attachment 342035


From the attached scale ticket:

Steer: 4680
Drive: 5120
Trailer: 6220

Originally Posted by out of sight

Scale ticket: Steer 4760, drive 3240. Agrees with the mfr tow chart when the options are taken into account.

Are these the same truck, loaded to the same conditions, apart from the trailer on the ball in the attached scale ticket?

You have added 1880 lbs to the rear axle?

If so, if you had WD installed and set up correctly, just think how much closer to your desired 50:50 front:rear axle weight ratio you could get.

[Dan and Liz]

I believe I’d shorten those safety chains ...

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by Dan and Liz

I believe I’d shorten those safety chains ...

Yeah. Sparky, Sparky