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Old 09-19-2014, 07:26 AM   #141
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I think the real "gotcha" with the diesel vehicles will be for those folks like me who own their vehicles well outside the warranty period.
I have had to replace a turbo (reman) and dpf filter (craigslist find) which cost me over $2600 last year thanks to the complex emission system. The remainder of the truck has been pretty darn good, well except for the crummy tire pressure sensors. More gov't mandated crapola......
Maintenance isn't much different than the gasser. My fuel filter was $20 at the local parts house, a quality oil filter cost me $8 but the 3 gallons of oil was $58.
Anyway, I still own this diesel because of the performance, certainly not the economics. If I didn't have towing duties I would just have a gas truck.

There seems to be a lot of happy Ecoboost owners that have twin turbo's. This scare's me because that's twice the cost to fix over my trucks single turbo. I wonder how costly they will be to diagnose and fix if kept outside the warranty period....... Gasoline injectors aren't necessarily cheap either.

If I ever decide to sell the current truck I would consider going back to a naturally aspirated v-8 but it's going to be very hard for me to give up the diesel towing performance.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:27 AM   #142
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:52 PM   #143
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I think the real "gotcha" with the diesel vehicles will be for those folks like me who own their vehicles well outside the warranty period.
I have had to replace a turbo (reman) and dpf filter (craigslist find) which cost me over $2600 last year thanks to the complex emission system. The remainder of the truck has been pretty darn good, well except for the crummy tire pressure sensors. More gov't mandated crapola......
Maintenance isn't much different than the gasser. My fuel filter was $20 at the local parts house, a quality oil filter cost me $8 but the 3 gallons of oil was $58.
Anyway, I still own this diesel because of the performance, certainly not the economics. If I didn't have towing duties I would just have a gas truck.

There seems to be a lot of happy Ecoboost owners that have twin turbo's. This scare's me because that's twice the cost to fix over my trucks single turbo. I wonder how costly they will be to diagnose and fix if kept outside the warranty period....... Gasoline injectors aren't necessarily cheap either.

If I ever decide to sell the current truck I would consider going back to a naturally aspirated v-8 but it's going to be very hard for me to give up the diesel towing performance.

My DPF just so happened to fall off at around 100k miles, it cost me about $400 in software to compensate for the lack of a DPF and I get 3 mpg better and clean oil now....
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:46 AM   #144
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Well I have the solution for my Hemi when it comes to going up to 11K feet with the same ease as a diesel. And less moving parts than your turbos. Plus no lag

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Old 09-21-2014, 09:26 PM   #145
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My DPF just so happened to fall off at around 100k miles, it cost me about $400 in software to compensate for the lack of a DPF and I get 3 mpg better and clean oil now....
I started down that route because of the benefits you mentioned which ended up being a nightmare. A diesel shop put a tuner on which did nothing but set off cel lights, bells, whistles, you name it. Every time you accelerated I saw a large cloud of black smoke, the new 4" exhaust droned so bad my head hurt. I said the heck with that nonsense and went back to stock. I wish it would have turned out differently. I ended up finding a complete exhaust from a newer low mileage truck for $700. The hacks at the diesel shop cut the double walled down pipe. That down pipe alone (which also contains a catalyst) if purchased new from a dealer would have been $3000 the only good thing there is to say about emission components is that the exhaust pipe looks brand new (no soot) and it is stink free except for an occasional funny smell during regeneration.
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:12 AM   #146
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I started down that route because of the benefits you mentioned which ended up being a nightmare. A diesel shop put a tuner on which did nothing but set off cel lights, bells, whistles, you name it. Every time you accelerated I saw a large cloud of black smoke, the new 4" exhaust droned so bad my head hurt. I said the heck with that nonsense and went back to stock. I wish it would have turned out differently. I ended up finding a complete exhaust from a newer low mileage truck for $700. The hacks at the diesel shop cut the double walled down pipe. That down pipe alone (which also contains a catalyst) if purchased new from a dealer would have been $3000 the only good thing there is to say about emission components is that the exhaust pipe looks brand new (no soot) and it is stink free except for an occasional funny smell during regeneration.
I forget what you mentioned what truck you had, I just gave my DPF away for free.... That was all I replaced, and then blocked the EGR. I was not interested in performance, just to compensate for the loss of the DPF, so the tuner I run keeps me at stock. I have been running it now for about 40,000 miles so far with no lights and great results. The only issue I have had to date is I believe my turbo needs to be removed and cleaned, I think the sliding block is getting jammed on carbon buildup as I hear what sounds like air escaping the bypass when I climb large grades.
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:17 AM   #147
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Tavnash - sent you a PM so as not to clutter this anymore.
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:00 PM   #148
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Well I have the solution for my Hemi when it comes to going up to 11K feet with the same ease as a diesel. And less moving parts than your turbos. Plus no lag

so is that a supercharger on top of a hemi?? what kinda performance you getting. Hows the torque when pulling up hill??

was that a special order or aftermarket deal.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:01 PM   #149
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Watch that drivetrain while towing up hills!!!

Nice setup!
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:18 AM   #150
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Watch the driveshaft U-joints as they were designed for the horsepower and torque of a stock gasser. You might want to see if they are using a beefed up driveshaft on the new 1500 diesel and inquire about cost and retrofitting...
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:18 AM   #151
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One does not simply plop a supercharger on their engine without supporting mods. Come on guys. Gesh.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:12 AM   #152
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Sometimes people do...
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:28 AM   #153
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PS: I was just posting it as a gag I don't actually have a super charger.

But the point remains, forced induction is the only reason your engines are better at altitude. Not because diesel is better than gas. That's why the new Ecoboost does well at altitude. Two turbos.

Most folks don't build tow vehicles, so it's all moot anyways.

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Old 09-26-2014, 06:36 AM   #154
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InfoGraphic: Actual Fuel Economy of Diesel vs Gas Towing

For most people power lost while towing at altitude is a peripheral issue. I have never encountered a loss of power that is overtly noticeable at altitudes of less than 6,000 feet.

If a person tows their trailer to Cripple Creek Colorado, I imagine that a driver would notice that their TV is experiencing altitude sickness....

Diesel does have more fuel content per gallon, and I think that since a diesel always takes a full air charge, that it might have a slight built in efficiency advantage, but the intrinsic advantage is not big, and shrinking with time.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:43 AM   #155
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For most people power lost while towing at altitude is a peripheral issue. I have never encountered a loss of power that is overtly noticeable at altitudes of less than 6,000 feet.

If a person tows their trailer to Cripple Creek Colorado, I imagine that a driver would notice that their TV is experiencing altitude sickness....
On our recent trip towing our rig from FL to Northern California, I barely noticed any loss of power, but then I had plenty of reserve with over 400HP in my Escalade EXT. But indeed, being a Sea Level Dweller for several years now, I was very uncomfortable just being above 6000 feet!
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:53 AM   #156
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In this era we tend to take. 400HP, (even 300HP)and its reserve towing capacity for granted.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:55 AM   #157
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Just a note, I initially towed with a 2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and no problem with any altitude issues. The problem with the Cayenne was the fact it wanted to be in fifth gear a lot on the Interstate due to the requirement to be wound up a bit to get the torque. I probably should have kept it in fifth all the time, but did not.

I fully agree the gas vs. diesel is about the fact the diesels have turbos, and not about any inherent qualities of the fuels themselves.

However, while diesel emits lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than does gasoline, it has considerably more of what is called secondary organic aerosol (SOA). And SOA is a large contributor to SMOG. The question for me is whether in areas which can disperse SOA into the atmosphere as in the midwestern plains, is diesel the lessor pollutant?
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:57 AM   #158
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It wasn't that long ago that California sought to ban Diesel altogether. Then the legislature passed the stringent CO2 emissions statute and as a result, they did an about face on Diesel. My 2006 E-320 CDI, which originally was not saleable in CA as a new car, is now registered and passed smog easily. There is no tailpipe test to speak of, just an inspection to see that all systems are present and working.

I am with what seems to be a consensus here that Diesel trucks are not economical from a total cost of ownership perspective, given the high initial uplift, and presumed maintenance costs, but my Benz far exceeds my expectations given its cost was similar to the gasser E350, and the fact that the E350 requires premium fuel. I base that on the fact that I have averaged over 35 MPG HWY. Additionally, the Benz diesels are bulletproof, with the only major repair./maintenance done beyond routine oil changes, was replacement of the glow plugs at 100K or so, and its still going strong now at nearly 150K. ML/GL owners should be experiencing similar benefits.

Just the same, I am anxiously awaiting the debut of the smaller GM Duramax in the Colorado/Canyon, but if there is a significant uplift in price, you can count me out. Still I'd like to see the EPA numbers on it. There seems to be very little advantage to owning the 4cyl vs 6cyl mileage-wise in these new trucks... and if the Diesel does not improve on the meager mid 20's HWY figures, I'll also be out. I'd rather own a full sized Silverado with a V8 engine for a little more $$$. My 1999 Silverado with 5.3L V8 is a great truck and also has been extremely reliable. I do not use it for towing, rather deferring to my Escalade EXT which was bought for the express purpose of being a TV, and I use the Silverado for other truck things, but the lack of modern safety features in the Silverado has me shopping for another utility truck.
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Old 09-26-2014, 03:42 PM   #159
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Just a note, I initially towed with a 2005 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, and no problem with any altitude issues. The problem with the Cayenne was the fact it wanted to be in fifth gear a lot on the Interstate due to the requirement to be wound up a bit to get the torque. I probably should have kept it in fifth all the time, but did not.

I fully agree the gas vs. diesel is about the fact the diesels have turbos, and not about any inherent qualities of the fuels themselves.

However, while diesel emits lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than does gasoline, it has considerably more of what is called secondary organic aerosol (SOA). And SOA is a large contributor to SMOG. The question for me is whether in areas which can disperse SOA into the atmosphere as in the midwestern plains, is diesel the lessor pollutant?
Great question! I have wondered that. I didn't realize it was putting aerosol back into the atmosphere.

I've been doing a lot of research personally into our own foot print. I've been amazed however to discover so far that it will be smaller living in the AS full time even with all the traveling & towing than staying put in a stick house and commuting to work.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:16 PM   #160
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It would be sweet if this info-graphic was updated with today's gas prices. Things have gone down quite a bit.
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