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Old 08-18-2014, 02:22 PM   #81
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InfoGraphic: Actual Fuel Economy of Diesel vs Gas Towing

From direct observation, it is my informed opinion that the Cummins equipped Ram trucks will come the closest to operating as cheaply as a gas truck.

The Fords and Chevys just break too much, and when this happens even an easy fix costs 2k.... The big problems.... Well now.... Break out the big bucks...

Who beside me has noticed that UPS and FedEx are reverting to gas powered delivery trucks? Why is this?
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #82
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I work for a freightliner dealership, they purchased gas engines due to the emissions. Here in ca, the carb has made owning a gas engine less expensive
To drive. Also, the gm natural ,cng and gas engines currently in the ups trucks are blowing up due to the oil pumps. Big big issue. Our mechanics have told me that gas engines are the way to go. I am going to buy the dodge 1500 5.7 gas. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:13 PM   #83
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Cummins 5.9 rules! My son just pulled a 30' three axle cargo trailer 2500 miles from the East Coast across Wyoming and on to Idaho. Crossed the scales at just over 30k. At about 60 mph on the flats and grinding over the summits averaged between 10 and 11.5 mpg. Some headwinds were dreadful and it was all in at 55.

We hit about 14 mpg with ours and the 27FB at 60ish but can hardly tell the trailer is back there.

Both trucks are FWD.
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Old 09-04-2014, 05:38 AM   #84
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Perry, are you basing your opinion on ownership of a twenty two year old diesel truck? Jim
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:04 AM   #85
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Modern diesels sold in America are NOT simple, and generally speaking they are not as reliable as they were twenty and even ten years ago.

The golden age of American diesel engines IMO has passed.

Thank you bureaucrats!
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:16 AM   #86
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I have read on a few auto blogs that it is getting nearly ridiculous with the regulations coming out of the current admins eco-crats! Modern diesels should be performing even better these days. But it seems one needs to "illegally" bypass the EPA by removing things.

And to top it off, thanks to which ever media person the redneck kid who "rolls coal" enraged the EPA and congress are working to make rules to make modification of your vehicle illegal.

I know ethanol is hurting gas engine MPG's. We have a lifted vehicle on 35's that averages about 15mpg in town. After hearing a few others folks running ethonal free I decided to pay the premium mark up and try it for 3 tanks. Truck jumped to 19mpg. And it made me wonder how my truck unmodified might respond.

I might try it in the Ram for an experiment but it's impractical to pay for it always.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:49 PM   #87
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IMHO the emission standards of 1990 were good enough.

Paying as twice as much in complexity to make vehicles one percent cleaner than the first 98% is not only nonsensical, it is outright stupid, and every person who buys a new vehicle pays part of the price for this stupidity.
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:51 PM   #88
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InfoGraphic: Actual Fuel Economy of Diesel vs Gas Towing

I wonder how many people have burned to death on the account of diesel particulate filters?

These things are a great example of a stupid, stupid, idea made mandatory by the force of politicians and bureaucrats.

I absolutely LOVE diesels, I have since I was a kid, but I have come to face the fact that the weight of government has destroyed them.

Variable vane turbos
Exhaust gas recirculation
Diesel particulate filters
Cumbersome and unreliable injectors
DEF injection

The simplicity that made diesels great has been relegated out of existence.

It got so bad that what I considered the best maker of American diesel engines left the on highway market entirely. ( Caterpillar )
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:25 PM   #89
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Ah yes, eco-politics in full swing. Many can't recognize the difference between conservation and ideologies. And right now it's all ideology and not much true conservation.
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Old 09-04-2014, 04:39 PM   #90
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And of course no politicians are invested in companies that produce diesel particulate traps and companies that produce DEF.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:14 AM   #91
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Guys,

I have to respectfully disagree with some of the comments here. I believe CAFE and EPA regulations, as annoying as they seem, have helped to speed up innovation by the car manufacturers. Nowadays, a 2.0 Liter turbo charged engine produces more HP/Torque than an 8.0 Liter V8 30 years ago AND it gets better fuel economy. Ford is making light weight trucks with Aluminum used, and Ram has a full size pick with clean diesel that is pushing 30 mpg highway. Car manufacturers use run-flat tires to reduce weight and achieve better fuel economy. I doubt without the pressure of CAFE/EPA regulations the car companies would be where they are today. The improvement, even in the last 5 years, has been amazing.

As for for clean diesel technology, its relatively new (DEF, etc.). Give it a few years, and the car companies will fix all the glitches. Then we will have diesel vehicles that are reliable AND clean.

CAFE regulations makes the country rely less on foreign oil and keep our environment clean. Just look at China. Their cities are covered with smog and they have to wear masks to be able to breath. While I think over-regulation is bad, I do believe some regulations can be very beneficial to all.
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:47 AM   #92
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I respectfully ask,,,,

If the computer age happened at the same time as more stringent government standards, should we assume that the improvements in vehicle performance and efficiency came to be BECAUSE OF government regulation?

Who remembers the anemic emission pre computer engines of the late 70s?
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:49 AM   #93
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Were people looking for, and were auto makers producing more fuel efficient vehicles prior to CAFE standards?

I say the answer to both questions is an unequivocal YES.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:44 AM   #94
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There is a common fallacy that becomes part of just about every discussion of this nature.

The either/or fallacy hinges upon the idea that person must EITHER fully embrace ever tightening emission standards as the politicians and bureaucrats propose, OR they want CHINA.

There is ALWAYS a point of practical return, I think the standards we had in the early 90s were good enough, and many, many, many times better than Chinese standards.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:56 AM   #95
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There is a common fallacy that becomes part of just about every discussion of this nature.

The either/or fallacy hinges upon the idea that person must EITHER fully embrace ever tightening emission standards as the politicians and bureaucrats propose, OR they want CHINA.

There is ALWAYS a point of practical return, I think the standards we had in the early 90s were good enough, and many, many, many times better than Chinese standards.
The either/or fallacy.

Its like, support the troops or your a terrorist.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:01 AM   #96
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Well that is another common fallacy, the undoing of the fallacy is simple enough, we can support the individual service member without supporting the policies of the politicians who put them in harms way.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:19 AM   #97
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I did not say the regulations caused all the improvements in auto technology, but rather helped. Sometimes just having a deadline is all that's needed.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:23 AM   #98
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InfoGraphic: Actual Fuel Economy of Diesel vs Gas Towing

I think the standards up to about 1990 were good and necessary, since then they have started doing their regulating without considering practical return on investment.

(I.e. "If some tequila is good, then more is always BETTER!").

Recently there was a big flap about the EPA requiring fire trucks to meet the emission standards of other similar vehicles. The EPA stood their ground.

As a matter of practicality, in the grand scheme, will fire trucks meeting an emission standard make ANY difference in air quality whatsoever?

Practicality matters.
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Old 09-05-2014, 09:45 AM   #99
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I think the standards up to about 1990 were good and necessary, since then they have started doing their regulating without considering practical return on investment.

(I.e. "If some tequila is good, then more is always BETTER!").

Recently there was a big flap about the fed requiring fire trucks to meet the emission standards of other similar vehicles. The fed stood their ground.

As a matter of practicality, in the grand scheme, will fire trucks meeting an emission standard make ANY difference in air quality whatsoever?

Practicality matters.
You obviously never lived in California in the 90s nor have you visited there recently. The interior valleys are still choking from Ozone and it still grows worse every year. The number of cars has exploded with the population and the only thing that is keeping folks alive are the strict SMOG regulations. Particulate can be a problem, if it weren't for the Diesel regs and ever growing threat of wildfires, especially in this drought. I transferred title of a 2006 E-320 CDI (pre-DEF) to my daughter in CA which passes SMOG easily, although it can be induced to smoke if you stomp it.

The sooner they get to all electric, the better.

The contribution of ethanol to the supply and the resulting reduction in cost of gas to everyone is well documented. The replacement of MTBE with ethanol as an oxygenator is also well documented as saving lives and cleaning up the reservoirs of the carcinogenic agent. These are decade old arguments that should have been put to bed long ago. Get over it.

Full disclosure: My primary vehicle is a 2014 MB E250 Bluetec that gets close to 48 MPG on the highway. My Other vehicles are a well maintained 2008 Cadillac Escalade EXT that is used almost solely for towing, and is recently registered in CA where it passed SMOG with flying colors. My primary RV is now a 2014.5 Sprinter RT CS. My selection for a toad is close to being a MB B-Class Electric Drive with Tesla drivetrain.
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:12 AM   #100
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Tolerance.
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