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Old 08-04-2020, 01:17 PM   #81
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But it is only there for comparison shopping. The real payload is determined once you go over the weigh scales.
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I guess I'm wondering why bother? For just $12 at a CAT scale you get the weight of both axles and you will have more complete and better information. Then by comparing the numbers to the front an rear axle limits and with max combined limits you can do an excellent job of towing and load planning and you needn't worry about decoding the elusive payload.
Exactly. It's there (or should be there) for comparison shopping. Since most people won't borrow a new truck off the lot and run it over a CAT scale it's helpful to have valid information from the manufacturer before you make the vehicle purchase rather than be surprised after the fact.

IMHO that's why it's worth bothering and at least knowing whether the number on the sticker is meaningful or not.
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Old 08-04-2020, 01:32 PM   #82
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Exactly. It's there (or should be there) for comparison shopping. Since most people won't borrow a new truck off the lot and run it over a CAT scale it's helpful to have valid information from the manufacturer before you make the vehicle purchase rather than be surprised after the fact.

IMHO that's why it's worth bothering and at least knowing whether the number on the sticker is meaningful or not.
I think it has some validity, within a range.

As a shopping comparison data source, the payload label is better than the factory brochure, and analogous to the fuel consumption label, or the SAE tow rating. Not a guarantee or an expectation, but useful for comparing vehicle A to vehicle B.

When I see people obsessing over a few lbs I think of the fuel consumption label, and how nobody actually expects to get the published EPA mileage.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:54 AM   #83
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Since all the tow weight And truck spec experts are here, I’ll go ahead and ask this here. A little off topic (warning). My question is: the axle ratings on the sticker, are they limited by the tire load ratings that were in the original build? In other words, if your axle rating is “x” but with a P rated tire, would it increase if you went to a 10 ply tire with additional load carrying capacity? Or, are axle rating based on the structural steel, etc.. (As you might have guessed, I am sure that I’ve already exceeded my payload number of 1,400 lbs.)
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:00 AM   #84
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The Axle limits are determined by structural, stability, safety, or performance of the vehicle not the tires or wheels. Then the OEM wheels and tires are selected to meet or exceed the vehicle axle limit. The label specifies that the limit applies only when OEM tires or better are installed to address possibility the owner downgrades the wheels or tires.
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Old 08-05-2020, 04:40 PM   #85
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Ford also has a very detailed guide...

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Originally Posted by Northerngirl View Post
The last two trucks I ordered showed everything I ordered on the Detailed build sheet the dealer provided. Secondly Ford trucks all have a Window sticker generated at the factory that will list all the details as well as all optional equipment installed at the factory.

Go here for an example of a window sticker of a Ford F-150 with the options listed out. Ford F-150 Factory Window Sticker

And, in my recent experience, after the salesman repeatedly quotes the marketing "max tow" capability of 13,200# because "it has a Class IV hitch...", you need to go to the very comprehensive Ford Towing guide for your specific options.



2020 is here: https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf



All the way back to 2004: https://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/


Towing numbers are calculated using SAE J2807 - which assumes there are 2 x 150 pound people in the vehicle and a 70# aftermarket hitch, along with typical options that are over 33% of market penetration, so the J2807 rated towing number would appear to have already assumed a reduced payload. https://jalopnik.com/what-is-sae-j28...cks-1593305929
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Old 08-06-2020, 06:27 AM   #86
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The Axle limits are determined by structural, stability, safety, or performance of the vehicle not the tires or wheels. Then the OEM wheels and tires are selected to meet or exceed the vehicle axle limit. The label specifies that the limit applies only when OEM tires or better are installed to address possibility the owner downgrades the wheels or tires.
Thanks, Iíve increased tire capability. Was just wondering what the weakest link in the axle rating would be, and how itís determined?
Thx again,
Jeff
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:01 AM   #87
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The engineering principle is to design a coupled system so that the weakest components are sacrificial, fail in a way that does not compromise the entire system and are relatively easy to replace and upgrade. Another is to not over design any aspect, so generally there are multiple weaker or less capable components that will not fail catastrophically. It is hard to know exactly what they are, but for the rear axle it will be the axle ring and pinion, a higher gear ratio will tolerate more load, the springs bushings and shocks. Look at the parts the OEM swaps to make the vehicle "max tow" and that will give you the best clue.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:59 AM   #88
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Thanks, Iíve increased tire capability. Was just wondering what the weakest link in the axle rating would be, and how itís determined?
Thx again,
Jeff
Hi

If you are designing a vehicle with this or that set of ratings *and* you want it to be the most affordable vehicle you can design ..... there will be multiple items that are near their limits. Toss in things like "want it to weight the least" (which is indeed a design goal) and things get shaved even closer to the edge.

This is the gotcha when doing this or that sort of "upgrade" to a vehicle. There may well be five or ten things that need to be addressed to boost its capacity. Figuring out what those all are is not at all easy. Welcome to the world of computer aided design. (Mechanica is a lot of fun to learn how to use ... not .... ).

The flip side of this can be found if you Google "magic spring dust". No changes at all get done to the vehicle and it's ratings go up. Is it magic? Is it a lie? Is it a better analysis program? Was it a math error? There is absolutely no way to know.

Strength and Materials is a "fun" course if you head off to engineering school. Normally it's a junior year course and it gets a lot of repeat visitors. It (and the two years of training before it) will get you into the basics of how to start to work this stuff out. There *is* indeed hard science / math behind all this.

Lots of fun !!!

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Old 08-07-2020, 08:38 AM   #89
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I didn’t think it would be simple. But was curious none the less. My Dad was a EE. I think he was a bit disappointed that none of his 3 sons inherited the math gene. It must be recessive, as both of my sons have it. Ha!
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