IMHO, Most Towing Threads Miss This Important Item.

[cru-in]

" With the engine brake system and disc brakes you need your shoulder harness to keep you in your seat when stopping."

Yeap they are that good!

However, just today (on another thread) someone used stopping distance as the rationale for a 3/4 ton truck vice a 1/2 ton. Without a mention of the vast improvement an upgrade to disc brakes would yield.

[AldeanFan]

Lol,
My truck only has disk brakes in the front, so I tow with drums on 3 axles.

With the brake controller set properly my truck and trailer combination stop just as well as the truck does alone.

If you need to add disk brakes to stop safely there is something else wrong.

[hampstead38]

I grew up driving old trucks with drum brakes. Running a rig with drum brakes requires a different driving approach. The primary challenge with drum brakes is fade, normally due to heat. Having made numerous trips down both sides of the Continental Divide smelling burnt brakes, it's pretty apparent that not every driver understands the concept of compression braking. Using a '52 Chevy as a daily driver for years (and hoping to finish a '67 Dodge to tow our '67 Overlander), I always downshift and use compression braking to the extent possible to avoid brake fade. When towing, I give myself plenty of room, never tailgate and stay patient. If I lock up the brakes, it will snap me forward in my seat.

For vehicles, disc brakes improve stopping distance by 17 to 33 percent. Most modern vehicles have discs brakes on the front axle. I'm not sure how much distance would be gained by having discs on trailer axles, but my preference is to err on the side of caution when it comes to allowing for stopping distance. Or in the words of my grandfather, the most important part of a truck is the nut behind the wheel.

[travelux1969]

[QUOTE=oldenavy;2491621]Interesting, but brings up another point: Why are Semi-truck (and trailer) air brakes "normally on" (i.e. without air pressure the brakes are applied) whereas other trailer brakes are "normally off" (without electric power the brakes are not applied & wheels are free to rotate)? From a safety perspective, I would think all trailers with brakes should be "normally on".

big rig brakes are spring operated, applied air to release. a failed air line will lock the brakes. on a travel trailer, electric solenoids applying a constant force against a spring will draw some serious amps from the TV. if a wire fails that brake will lock up causing the trailer to swerve, or leave you sitting at a campsite unable to tow until you fix the issue

[Sailorguy]

Originally Posted by cru-in

Good Evening Everyone,

This evening I was looking thru a couple of the "can I tow this trailer with this vehicle" threads. In all the comments/suggestion, one item that I rarely find mentioned is the importance and safety of Disc Brakes on the trailer.

Seems to me, anyone towing near the tow vehicles max numbers, should consider disc brakes on the trailer.

My $0.02 FWIW.

There no question Disc Brakes are better, but they require a completely different system to apply them. It called an Electric over Hydraulic and is considerably more expensive, probably between $2000.00-$3500.00!
It is a Cost vs Benefit situation! I've paid the premium price before on a Sailboat Trailer I had custom made, but it had the additional benefit of better performance on the road as well as on the Boat Ramp while operating in Reverse, not to mention when the Brakes got wet from the Lake Water.

As far as a Travel Trailer application goes, I am not sure the extra costs can be justified.The focus should be on simple safety practices, correct Weight Distribution, Correct TV and Trailer match-up, good maintenance, reasonable road speeds, Driver experience and physical condition, etc.

[labans]

Another great discussion concerning getting Airstream into the modern world, the 21st Century.
You will hard pressed to find any new vehicle midsize and larger that does not have 4 wheel disc brakes. Crappy little cars like Hyundai and Kia still use them but only in the rear. You cannot buy a car in the United States that has drum brakes in the front. You cannot buy a truck in the United States that has drum brakes---ONLY disc are being sold.
To those folks who who are still thinking in the drum brake era you should note that drum brakes cannot provide proper Anti-lock nor can they provide Proportional Braking. These two items along with Anti-Swerve provide for an experience that is the safest. Drum brake applications are not even in the same category and are so out of date that there really is no discussion when it comes to safety and common sense. Combine these features with all the good driving tips we read about, like proper distance etc., and you get the best. Drum brakes will never provide this level of safety. Aside from the fact that 98% of all of the tow vehicles on this forum ONLY have disc brakes, think also about no-brainer applications like Jet Airliners. There are no large airplanes that use anything but disc brakes and there is a damn good reason why!!!
I hope someone form Airstream reads this thread and helps begin the switch over to a safer, more modern trailer.

[Merlintiaga]

there is a huge mis-understanding of the role of brake system and stopping distance. The only contact between the vehicle (or trailer) and the road is the tires. In a properly adjusted and tuned braking system, the tires determine the stopping distance, not the type of brake pad, rotor, drum, or even drum vs. disk. Under emergency braking, the tire should be "skid pending" (meaning about to begin skidding). It doesn't matter how the tire gets to that condition. Whether by disk, drum, hydraulic, pneumatic, or cable, it doesn't matter. The only thing slowing the vehicle is the force the tire is putting on the road. I agree that some systems are easier to adjust, but the claim by the disk brake conversion kit company that the stopping distance is shorter versus drums brakes is just hogwash. If the brakes are adjusted properly, stooping is limited by the tire/road interface. Anything else is just a sales pitch. I know this is going to set some off on a tangent. I'm not saying that the overall performance of disc brakes isn't better, it clearly is which is why performance cars have disc brakes on all four corners. They can shed more heat (energy) than drum brakes so they tend to be better in repetitive braking, but to say that they stop faster, is simply not true and ignoring the fact that tire friction is the limiting factor in slowing a car (assuming that the brakes can indeed lock the wheel).

Don't buy this? Condsider this then: do a brake test in the snow. Now change to high performance brake pads and rotors. Do the same test in the snow. Did your car stop faster? Of course not. Why? The limiting condition is the friction between tire and the road. It always is the limiting factor, snow, wet, or dry.

take away: buy good trailer tires and properly adjust your brake gain on the TV so the brake system on the trailer operates properly

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

. . .
. . . take away: buy good trailer tires and properly adjust your brake gain on the TV so the brake system on the trailer operates properly

Well said, and especially true for single-axle trailers like ours, with only 2 tires for friction stopping power.

[Life is a Highway]

Why did Dexter quit making their disc brake upgrade system for Airsteam ? I see many SOB going to Elkart and having new axles and disc brakes installed. Or am I wrong Dexter is still out there. I know etrailer has a aftermarket system. I’ve never seen it on a Airsteam.

Originally Posted by cru-in

One example of the difference disc brakes make on the trailer.


https://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/trai...ce-272215.html

[GCinSC2]

I’ve looked and Dexter (website) still offers several models of disc brakes including the 4 piston model that they used for a while.

Now for my speculation as to what happened to them.
1. Recall for Actibrake actuators.
2. Recall for incorrect length and design of the hoses that connect to the calipers.
3. $$$
4. Market influence.
See item 3 again.

I think discussion and even debate is good. But if you’ve never driven a rig with correctly working Dexter 4 piston brakes and put them thru some serious stopping drills, well if you can try one sometime do it.

Glad I have them and yes I do all my own work on them.

Gary

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

I’ve looked and Dexter (website) still offers several models of disc brakes including the 4 piston model that they used for a while.

Now for my speculation as to what happened to them.
1. Recall for Actibrake actuators.
2. Recall for incorrect length and design of the hoses that connect to the calipers.
3. $$$
4. Market influence.
See item 3 again.

I think discussion and even debate is good. But if you’ve never driven a rig with correctly working Dexter 4 piston brakes and put them thru some serious stopping drills, well if you can try one sometime do it.

Glad I have them and yes I do all my own work on them.

Gary

X2^ I've had several trailers with properly adjusted and working brakes and the first time I had to stop quickly with my AS, I was astounded. I could go into a long dissertation as to why they are vastly superior to electric trailer drums, but I won't.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by labans

Another great discussion concerning getting Airstream into the modern world, the 21st Century.
You will hard pressed to find any new vehicle midsize and larger that does not have 4 wheel disc brakes. Crappy little cars like Hyundai and Kia still use them but only in the rear. You cannot buy a car in the United States that has drum brakes in the front. You cannot buy a truck in the United States that has drum brakes---ONLY disc are being sold.
To those folks who who are still thinking in the drum brake era you should note that drum brakes cannot provide proper Anti-lock nor can they provide Proportional Braking. These two items along with Anti-Swerve provide for an experience that is the safest. Drum brake applications are not even in the same category and are so out of date that there really is no discussion when it comes to safety and common sense. Combine these features with all the good driving tips we read about, like proper distance etc., and you get the best. Drum brakes will never provide this level of safety. Aside from the fact that 98% of all of the tow vehicles on this forum ONLY have disc brakes, think also about no-brainer applications like Jet Airliners. There are no large airplanes that use anything but disc brakes and there is a damn good reason why!!!
I hope someone form Airstream reads this thread and helps begin the switch over to a safer, more modern trailer.

Well, not exactly right. The modern day new off the floor Toyota Tacoma comes fitted with... drum brakes at the rear.

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, yes, disc brakes will stop your trailer better when they work.

When they first got popular, they had a few problems such as:

(1.) Won't work with your controller.

(2.) Won't work at all.

(3.) Locked up and won't release.

(4.) Actuator leaks.

(5.) Rubber flex hoses failed.

(6.) Lug studs sheared off.

(7.) Caliper bolts sheared off.

(8.) Actuator too slow.

(9.) Actuators recalled.

Drum brakes are much more dependable.

[ROBERT CROSS]

You said it...plus, don't depend on never adjust, ck every Spring.

Bob
🇺🇸

[OTRA15]

Jus’ Bobin’ along here . . .

[labans]

"Well, not exactly right. The modern day new off the floor Toyota Tacoma comes fitted with... drum brakes at the rear."

Christ! You couldn't believe it unless you had told us!!

[cru-in]

We are having our axles replaced and AS Service center is putting Dexter Disc on our AS.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by cru-in

We are having our axles replaced and AS Service center is putting Dexter Disc on our AS.

Looking forward to your review after getting the discs.

[cru-in]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

there is a huge mis-understanding of the role of brake system and stopping distance. The only contact between the vehicle (or trailer) and the road is the tires. In a properly adjusted and tuned braking system, the tires determine the stopping distance, not the type of brake pad, rotor, drum, or even drum vs. disk. Under emergency braking, the tire should be "skid pending" (meaning about to begin skidding). It doesn't matter how the tire gets to that condition. Whether by disk, drum, hydraulic, pneumatic, or cable, it doesn't matter. The only thing slowing the vehicle is the force the tire is putting on the road. I agree that some systems are easier to adjust, but the claim by the disk brake conversion kit company that the stopping distance is shorter versus drums brakes is just hogwash. If the brakes are adjusted properly, stooping is limited by the tire/road interface. Anything else is just a sales pitch. I know this is going to set some off on a tangent. I'm not saying that the overall performance of disc brakes isn't better, it clearly is which is why performance cars have disc brakes on all four corners. They can shed more heat (energy) than drum brakes so they tend to be better in repetitive braking, but to say that they stop faster, is simply not true and ignoring the fact that tire friction is the limiting factor in slowing a car (assuming that the brakes can indeed lock the wheel).

Don't buy this? Condsider this then: do a brake test in the snow. Now change to high performance brake pads and rotors. Do the same test in the snow. Did your car stop faster? Of course not. Why? The limiting condition is the friction between tire and the road. It always is the limiting factor, snow, wet, or dry.

take away: buy good trailer tires and properly adjust your brake gain on the TV so the brake system on the trailer operates properly

Independent test after independent test shows (whether a trailer, car, or truck) disk brakes stop a vehicle much, much quicker. Just do a google search and you will find independent test after test showing this.

"the claim by the disk brake conversion kit company that the stopping distance is shorter versus drums brakes is just hogwash."

It is not a "claim by the disk brake conversion kit company". They are citing a study by the Canadian Standards Association.

[Bauerg]

Having pulled trailers for six years over 100,000 miles a year, I never had brake failure or brakes to heat up on me. If your brakes are heating up and fading, then you need to reconsider the tow vehicle in my opinion. Currently, I have a 28 ft. airstream and 3/4 ton diesel TV. With the exhaust break, I rarely have to touch the brakes going down steep grades and when I do, it is infrequent and the exhaust brake kicks in so that my trailer brakes rarely need to be applied, only in emergency stopping situations. It isn't that there isn't sufficient braking available on the trailer, in fact, I have to set the gain low enough so that the wheels don't lock up. If they lock up in an emergency braking situation, you skid and the coefficient of friction is exceeded and you have very little resistance to slow you down. That is why we have anti-braking on our vehicles. Instead of disc brakes, I would consider a Prodigy braking system which is integrated to your trucks system and works based on an inertia sensing system. It applies the brakes proportionally so that they don't lock up giving you maximum braking. But, first, you should consider the TV mass, weight, braking system as one that is adequate for the trailer loading that you have behind you. If you find your brakes are heating up, pull over and let them cool and slow down. Also, with a diesel like mine, you are unlikely to ever experience overheating in the first place. That is my take on it.