How much hitch weight gets calculated into payload when using a WD system

[SYC2Vette]

This thread might be useful......

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f23...ml#post2594974

[ROBERT CROSS]

I prefer the term receiver weight if you are including the WD system attached.
AS doesn't know or care what WD system you may use, hence their TW spec's don't include said WD stuff.

I wonder why AS has a 1000lb TW limit for the trailer and could give a hoot less about your TV? Panel cracks possibly?

Let's talk about tires & payload.😂😂

Bob
🇺🇦🇺🇸🇺🇦

[dznf0g]

And we are talking about payload.....indirectly. ha

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

And we are talking about payload.....indirectly. ha

It does too exist, we both just 'existed' it,

Bob
🇺🇦🇺🇸🇺🇦

[abavetta]

The purpose of a WD hitch is to distribute the hitch weight from the TV rear axel to the TVs front axle NOT to the trailers axle!

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by abavetta

The purpose of a WD hitch is to distribute the hitch weight from the TV rear axel to the TVs front axle NOT to the trailers axle!

The purpose is both, by physical design.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Airstream Forums mobile app

[abavetta]

A WD hitch transfers hitch weight from TVs rear axle to it’s front axle NOT to the trailers axle(s).

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by abavetta

A WD hitch transfers hitch weight from TVs rear axle to it’s front axle NOT to the trailers axle(s).

Oh, ok, have a nice day. I smell a guy under the bridge.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Airstream Forums mobile app

[abavetta]

OK your right, both. Sorry for multiple posts

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by abavetta

The purpose of a WD hitch is to distribute the hitch weight from the TV rear axel to the TVs front axle NOT to the trailers axle!

Tell that to my WD...please...

760lb off the TV front axle with no WD and a loaded for camping rig.
560lb returned to the FA with WD set, 200lb light
AS axles 7480lb with no WD, 7640lb with WD, 160lb moved.
560+160=720lb total weight moved,
TV rear axle +920lb with WD set

I have more numbers it you need them...😂

Bob🇺🇦🇺🇸🇺🇦

[SYC2Vette]

Originally Posted by abavetta

A WD hitch transfers hitch weight from TVs rear axle to it’s front axle NOT to the trailers axle(s).

Because your trailer is relatively light, you may not be aware that a WD does in fact transfer load back to the trailer axle(s) in addition to the front axle of your TV. The whole WD discussion can certainly be confusing until you finally "get it" though.

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Interesting you ask for a response to a post and [emoji95] someone responds out of left field, nothing at all with what you were eluding too.

Calm down sparky. I'm not eluding anything.

I think Nicdem79 has a couple of replies to make before folks snipe at one another. At least.

[Tom_T]

All -

Just to go back to basics for the reasons & benefits of using any WD hitch - aside from the Anti-Sway function - as the Priorities for WD Effects - are:

1.) To level the TV in order to maintain Steering Control & Braking effectiveness, since in most TVs 100% of Steering & 70-80% of braking is on the Front Wheels/Axle.

2.) To reduce the added Rear Axle Wt. carried from the Trailer/Hitch Wts. in order to stay under the TV's RAWR limit.

3.) To more evenly distribute the HW among the TV & TT axles - which is apparently the basis of the OP's initial question, & of some of the responses.

Some responses are listing very low WD weights transferred to their TV's Front Axles - which should not be the main point of setting up your WD Hitch.

Instead, most all WD Hitches & normal practice is to measure your front & rear wheels vs. the wheel wells or other "set-point" on the body of your presumably Level TV with it unhitched - then to Hitch the Trailer & adjust your WD Torsion Bars (or other WD Torsion device) to return the TV to that Pre-Hitched/Unhitched level at the Front Wheels/Axle - thereby returning it to the Level position & maintaining full steering control & braking effectiveness.

Given the above & WD Priority/Goal #1 - it really doesn't matter how much is transferred from the HW to the TV's front axle &/or the TT's rear axle(s).

Therefore, the amount of HW actually transferred to the trailer's axle is a possible side-benefit to lowering the amount of actual HW carried by the TV - which should be based upon actual weight of all TV & TT axles on either a CAT Scale, or portable scales used at some Trailer Safety Courses & RV Shows/Rallies. It's inappropriate & useless to guess at some theoretical proportion of WD transfer to the trailer's axle(s) of any percentage - high or low. Only the actual transfer to TT wheels as measured on the scales should be considered.

For the OP's question - The total weight of the TV unhitched vs. hitched is what matters for your payload calculations - not the trailer's weight with vs without WD.

Only the actual portion of HW transferred to the TT can be deducted from the TV's payload burden based on such a CAT/Other scale weighing of all TV & TT axles. Also - BOTH of the TV's front & rear axle's HW distribution is deducted from your available TV payload, so you may have to remove some luggage, gear, etc. from your TV & into your trailer - IF you have any capacity within the Trailer's GTWR limit.

However, you can balance & secure your load within the trailer in such a way as to not or limitedly increase the resultant HW using a Sherline HW Scale on the trailer parked on a level surface as you experiment with loading & tanking-up your trailer. Heaviest items are best carried low and nearest the trailer's axle(s) for best stability; and you may have to run with empty tanks (except LP) if you're tight on GTWR payload.

But you'll still need to go to the CAT Scale afterward to weigh the TV & TT together & separately for their respective weights hitched & unhitched & how much WD is transferred to which TV & TT axles (the Sherline HW/TW Scales don't measure that).

Also note to all that many/most Flying J, Pilot (both same ownership now), TA, Luvs & other Truck & Auto Fuel Stops also have CAT Scales, in addition to the stand-alone & Truck Service/Shop CAT Scales.

FYI - I'm towing a Vintage Kin 1960 Avion T20 at about 3500 lbs wet/loaded/options & 542 lbs HW with a Hensley Cub 3P WD/AS hitch, but it needs very little WD to keep the larger rented F250/RAM2500 pick-ups level, but needed much more for the prior rental 2012 Nissan Pathfinders (as would the Cayenne whenever we buy one - put off due to COVID non-use of Avion) - for the big trucks it's not much going to the Avion axle nor TV front axle, while the Pathfinders' had more WD cranked in to get them back to level by transferring a good bit to the front axle, ergo more gets pushed back to the trailer's axle too - but I don't have CAT tickets to post right now.

Nicdem - you don't say what TV & trailer you have, so we can't give any meaningful comparisons to yours, so you'll have to do that from my & the other folks' info.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by abavetta

A WD hitch transfers hitch weight from TVs rear axle to it’s front axle NOT to the trailers axle(s).

No that is not correct - WD transfers HW between ALL TV & TT axles, if you read any WD Hitch documentation, articles on WD, etc. However, it is not necessarily evenly distributed between the TV & TT axles.

Cheers!
Tom
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[thewarden]

Originally Posted by abavetta

A WD hitch transfers hitch weight from TVs rear axle to it’s front axle NOT to the trailers axle(s).

Incorrect.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

No that is not correct - WD transfers HW between ALL TV & TT axles, if you read any WD Hitch documentation, articles on WD, etc. However, it is not necessarily evenly distributed between the TV & TT axles.

Cheers!
Tom
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WD transfers rear axle weight. Your scale tickets prove that fact: Rear axle weight removed = front axle weight returned + TA weight added.

It accomplishes that task by applying an additional torque force (spring bar force turned ~90*) at the front end of the spring bar at the hitch head, through the receiver, which "twists" the TV forward (or counterclockwise, if you were standing on the driver side). That torque effect "lifts" the rear, which relieves weight from the rear axle and applies it to the front axle.
The only reason there is weight added to the TT axle is because the spring bar is in tension at two points. The rear tension is vertical (downward) which forces additional weight to the trailer axles, and that force must be equal and opposite to the result of the torque force at the front.

Hitch weight, in reality, does not change.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by WellSaid11

Interesting to note that so many people say that their published hitch weight from Airstream is so much less than the real world
weight at the ball.

Today with empty FW, GW and BW tanks but full propane tanks I am at 925 lbs on the Sherline tongue on level ground and with about 200 lbs of additional weight throughout the PB, including some of that in rear storage.

AS says factory spec hitch weight is 900 lbs with LP and batteries. My guess would be that the 900 lbs spec is @ the unit “base weight” of 6600 lbs and not the GVWR of 7600 lbs.

Strange to see so many AS trailers with so much variance, especially on the underestimated end.

Here is my CAT scale tickets on my 2017 28FCTwin, full tanks and loaded for the road; 1100lbs. Most folks I have seen here on the Forum, have similar weight...always over 1000lbs, even with the 25's. I'm surprised your PB edition is not over 1000lbs?

[Bill M.]

Tongue weight does not change. But what I consider as hitch weight does change. If you push down on the ball with the tongue wt and pull up on the ball with the transfer bars the result is less down force on the hitch. Lower hitch weight. Less down force on the receiver to truck connection.

[labans]

What is a "Burb?"

[labans]

For Robert Cross