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Old 01-01-2015, 06:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by vito98103 View Post
Here's a video by someone who pulls their 30 ft A/S with a Mercedes GL 350 diesel (something like that). And of course, a Hensley.

Don't know how the Benz compares to the Beemer, towing wise.
The X5 and GL 350 are very similar. History has proven they are outstanding TV's for Airstreams. I also suggest to the poster to connect back with Can Am for the pro advice on hook up info.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:48 PM   #22
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To bring this thread back to its original question:

We tow our 34” International with a Hensley hitch and would not choose anything else ever again - except perhaps the competition, that works along the same lines.

There is no sway, even under the most challenging of circumstances; rain, crosswinds, semis. The Hensely eliminates sway completely, 100%.

As far as the capabilities of your tow vehicle are concerned, most likely you will know already that your BMW is a far safer, far more capable vehicle than many of the heavy trucks some people insist should be used for towing.
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Old 01-01-2015, 07:59 PM   #23
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And I ask, "But can you STOP it?"
In your case, trailer brakes or not, your best bet is to not even bring that vehicle with you when you pick up your shiny new AS.
It cannot be said often enough that the above is simply not the case.

Every single heavy truck on the market will take longer to come to a stop than the BMW in question. That's simply a matter of physics and adding a trailer does not change that.

Adding a trailer does not magically improve the stopping ability of a truck, neither does it magically decrease the stopping ability of the BMW. They stay the same, assuming the rig has been properly set up - ideally they will both decrease ever so slightly.

With or without trailer, the BMW will come to a stop sooner, from any speed.
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:41 PM   #24
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There is no sway, even under the most challenging of circumstances; rain, crosswinds, semis. The Hensely eliminates sway completely, 100%.
Hi, I have heard, or read, this statement so many times that it makes me sick. How do you, or anyone, else know that it "eliminates sway completely" if your set-up never swayed???????? You have to have ants before you eliminate them. You have to have sway to eliminate it. To eliminate something, you have to have it first. Ten years, and who knows how many tens of thousands of miles, in conditions where most people would stay home, and I haven't had any sway either.*** Is it my hitch, my tow vehicle, my Safari, my whole set-up, or my driver ability?



*** Correction: "In the ten years that I have owned my trailer, it has only once, swayed violently out of control; It was parked in my driveway during a 5.0 Earthquake."

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Old 01-01-2015, 09:02 PM   #25
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Thank everyone for the thought provoking commentary. I truly appreciate your insight, and suggestions.

Notwithstanding the orphan issue, I’m just curious to learn what kind of hitch others with similar vehicles are using when pulling their 25 foot Airstreams behind their German SUVs. Obviously, my initial question was somewhat poorly stated. My bust.

I’m no expert at any of this, and would like to move up to towing the larger trailer in such a way that I am able to tow it comfortably. The Eaz-Lift with 1000 bars and two Husky sway controls is one approach, ProPride is another oft-mentioned option. Reese SC seems to fit between those two. While cost is a factor, safety and control are far greater considerations.

Thanks again! This has been a most interesting way to start the New Year.

Rod
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:02 PM   #26
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Hello and welcome!


Your BMW might make sense for a 19' trailer, but it will never make sense for a 25' unit. Please think about the bus-load filled with orphans following behind you before you embark on any trip with this setup. We want them to make it home safely just as much as we want you to.
An opinion based, no doubt, on many thousands of miles experience towing a 25' Airstream with a Can-Am prepared BMW X5D. I've read it here so it must be true. *sigh*

For what it's worth, Rod, we tow our 2011 28' International with a Can-Am prepared Toyota Sienna minivan and one of Andy's favoured Eaz-Lift setups that you've already used. It works pretty well for us, and sway has never been an issue, but if I were going to upgrade then I'd opt for the Hensley as others have said.

For proper advice, though, speak with Can-Am
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:04 AM   #27
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"Hi, I have heard, or read, this statement so many times that it makes me sick."

Bob,

Your font indicates you were really sick. I hope your feeling better.

I have never experienced Hitchitis with the haha on the Classic, but the Reese straight line was a bit wretching at times.
The enlightening thing is I didn't even know I was 'sick' until the haha was installed....umm, interesting.

Bob
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Old 01-02-2015, 05:50 AM   #28
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This is not the best place to ask for towing opinions, it's always the same set of warnings and bets with little or no experience towing a medium-sized Airstream with a BMW X5.
AND

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Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
An opinion based, no doubt, on many thousands of miles experience towing a 25' Airstream with a Can-Am prepared BMW X5D. I've read it here so it must be true. *sigh*
No one needs any towing experience to determine that this is a dangerous combination. There isn't enough fairy dust in this world to make this combo safe. A simple application of the skills that we all should have learned in 4th grade mathematics is all that is needed. SIGH!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
...with a ProPride hitch; the ProPride/Hensley design projects those big cross winds to the rear axle where they are stabilized, does not leverage them to the front steering axle.

No other bumper-pull hitch does that
Funny. My bumper hitch stops sway too. Well not with all of that fancy marketing bull about imaginary projections, but with all of that fancy real-world stuff like it just works. Their is no sway with my Equalizer. It doesn't stop it after it starts. It prevents it from happening in the first place. I think we need a thread who's only contributors are people with more than a few semesters of college physics who can discuss this, and bring it to it's logical conclusion. My understanding of the way the world works does not make the Hensley/PP any safer. In fact in the case of small, light-weight tow vehicles I believe that the Hensley/PP systems are more dangerous than competing designs.

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Your GM/Chev 2500 (if it is a diesel, as I assume it is) takes 32 feet more to stop from 60 mph than a 2012 X5d. That is most of a school bus length. Hopefully the school bus you are following in this scenario isn't full of orphans. So with better performing brakes than a 3/4 ton pickup, the future for towing with an X5 is bright.
AND

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Originally Posted by andreasduess View Post
Every single heavy truck on the market will take longer to come to a stop than the BMW in question. That's simply a matter of physics and adding a trailer does not change that.

Adding a trailer does not magically improve the stopping ability of a truck, neither does it magically decrease the stopping ability of the BMW. They stay the same, assuming the rig has been properly set up - ideally they will both decrease ever so slightly.

With or without trailer, the BMW will come to a stop sooner, from any speed.
I think that you guys might have been sleeping that day in your physics class. Uuless the trailer's brakes are able to fully brake the trailer on their own, additional braking burden will be placed on the tow-vehicle's braking system. This will increase overall braking distances for the combination. Nobody has their brakes optimized for every condition., I would go so far as to say no one has their brakes optimized for any condition.

Once you ask the tow vehicle to start taking up the slack, you're going to increase stopping distances. Strapping a trailer to a TV will almost always require more braking distance than the TV alone. It is time to stop the rumor that a well set-up rig will decrease stopping distances, because no one's rig is set-up that well. If the BMW's brakes are overburdened enough, the BMW will take longer to stop then a GM truck whose brakes aren't overburdened. THAT is simply a matter of physics.

Peace out.
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:18 AM   #29
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The brakes of a heavy truck don't come with additional "just in case" stopping power built in, they are designed to stop the vehicle plus load - but that's it, as is the case for any vehicle.

The BMW has a top speed of around 130mph and weighs around 6000lbs loaded. If we fall back onto our high school physics knowledge for a moment, then momentum is mass x velocity (weight x speed), which for the BMW means that top momentum is p=780,000.

The brakes of the BMW are designed to safely deal with this, these are normal operating conditions. They do this by changing kinetic energy into heat energy, which means the biggest issue brakes face is heat dissipation.

Now, in a towing situation, let's assume the towing speed is 60mph and the total weight of the rig is 6000lbs for the car plus 7500lbs for the trailer, a total of 13500 lbs.

This changes the momentum equation to 13,500 x 60 with p now being 810,000.

While this number is higher, 810,000 vs 780,000, it is far from alarming and the BMW will still bring tow vehicle and trailer to a safe stop because far from being overburdened, as you suggest, the BMW's brakes are perfectly capable of dealing with the momentum in question.

Keep in mind that momentum dissipation is only one element of successful towing, albeit an important one and also keep in mind that the above example assumes a catastrophic trailer brake failure, with zero brake contribution from the trailer.

The rig will need a longer stopping distance in these circumstances, but so will any rig, with any tow vehicle.

A truck, which we know needs more than thirty additional feet to come to a stop even under ideal circumstances than the BMW, does not just ignore the 7500lbs in weight.
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:46 AM   #30
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Think I will try the wife's toyota Venza out, it has 185 hp at 5000 rpm, with big brakes and weighs probably 1/2 what the 31 ' classic does. All we need to do is build a hitch for it, if I can find something to attach it to..???
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:01 AM   #31
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Think I will try the wife's toyota Venza out, it
Sounds good tj... Sounds like it would be a lot more comfortable to travel with than your 2007 dodge 6.7 diesel.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:01 AM   #32
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Think I will try the wife's toyota Venza out, it has 185 hp at 5000 rpm, with big brakes and weighs probably 1/2 what the 31 ' classic does. All we need to do is build a hitch for it, if I can find something to attach it to..???
Good idea TJ, my wife has a Chevy Equinox. Maybe I'll put a hitch on it and get rid of my big smok'in, chok'in, Diesel truck, and save some money!
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:33 AM   #33
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Just checked and the Equinox has a whopping 182HP, and 172lb ft of torque. I don't know, that might be a tad light for a 11,500GVW trailer.

Didn't even check weight or towing specs, because we all know those automotive engineers don't know diddly squat about what they are doing.

But hey, I also checked and it has independent rear suspension, so that's all that matters, right?
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:34 AM   #34
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We all might be able to make it to the near by wallmart . Mine is 2 miles down hill,might make it.Then we could pull out the bud lite and talk about how good the wife's mini van is, gas mileage,tire costs handling,and my special hitch, gosh I sure hope I can make it.. The smaller the better,how long would the engine last at 5000 rpm....
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:37 AM   #35
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A truck, which we know needs more than thirty additional feet to come to a stop even under ideal circumstances than the BMW, does not just ignore the 7500lbs in weight.
The BMW has a payload capacity of ~1100# (per door sticker on driver side B pillar). The tongue weight of a loaded 25 ft trailer is ~1000#. Add a driver and a passenger and it will be overloaded. When a vehicle is overloaded, the braking, cornering, handling all will deteriorate. You did not include this major point in your analysis. The truck, on the other hand, won't be overloaded and will not have a significant performance degradation.

Also, I have seen you mention several times that trailer brakes take care of stopping the trailer and if this is not the case then there must be something wrong with the set up. Just wondering, do you get the same stopping distance when you slam on the brake at 60 MPH with AND without your 8000# trailer in tow?

Claims such as this (or that some hitches "eliminate" sway) sure will make Sir Isaac Newton roll in his grave.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:46 AM   #36
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The BMW has a payload capacity of ~1100# (per door sticker on driver side B pillar). The tongue weight of a loaded 25 ft trailer is ~1000#. Add a driver and a passenger and it will be overloaded. When a vehicle is overloaded, the braking, cornering, handling all will deteriorate. You did not include this major point in your analysis. The truck, on the other hand, won't be overloaded and will not have a significant performance degradation.

Also, I have seen you mention several times that trailer brakes take care of stopping the trailer and if this is not the case then there must be something wrong with the set up. Just wondering, do you get the same stopping distance when you slam on the brake at 60 MPH with AND without your 8000# trailer in tow?

Claims such as this (or that some hitches "eliminate" sway) sure will make Sir Isaac Newton roll in his grave.
Just so you understand, Rostam, we never pay ANY attention to weight ratings of tow vehicles here because we ALL know that those stupid automotive engineers know absolutely NOTHING about what they are doing. We also never figure the loaded weight of a vehicle when stopping, because that might be detrimental to "our" argument.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:52 AM   #37
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This is not the best place to ask for towing opinions, it's always the same set of warnings and bets with little or no experience towing a medium-sized Airstream with a BMW X5.
And so it goes . . .
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:00 AM   #38
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And so it goes . . .
Definitely, and from BOTH directions, for sure.

Doug, please tell us how many miles you have driven towing your Airstream with a BMW.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:08 AM   #39
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None, Steve. That's why I haven't told him he can't do it, but to work with Can-Am who set up his BMW in the first place and does this work routinely.

I did advise him on the only thing he asked about, a hitch. I recommended the Hensley/ProPride design because I have used it as well as other hitches on the same vehicle and it is a remarkable device, to say the least.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:15 AM   #40
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Understand, Doug, and if you look back in the thread, no where have I told him not to do it either, or that it wouldn't work. I simply recommended an alternative hitch to him because he didn't want to "break the bank", and told him I didn't think he would like towing with the BMW. I've been on the underpowered side with a tow vehicle and know what it's like, and have seen many people thru the years with the same situation upgrading to a more powerful and capable tow vehicle.

I definitely agree with you about the PPP hitches, they are remarkable. But that's not to say they do not have their "issues". I don't believe there is a "perfect" hitch for every situation, and if there were, very shortly there would only be that one hitch manufactured. Almost every situation is a little different.
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