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Old 04-06-2024, 07:21 PM   #1
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2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
SAN ANTONIO , TX
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Help with CAT Scale numbers

Today we picked up a “new to us” 2014 Flying Cloud 25RBT and we’re pulling it with an 2021 Ford F150. On the way home from the dealership I stopped at a truck stop to weigh my setup at a CAT Scale. Unfortunately after getting home and reading through some threads I realized I might have missed one measurement and that was my truck by itself without the trailer attached. So here’s what I have from today.

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution connected

Steer - 3,280
Drive - 3,560
Trailer - 5,160
Gross - 12,000

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution disconnected

Steer - 3,040
Drive - 3,880
Trailer - 5,060
Gross - 11,980

With the above measurements is there any way to figure out the tongue weight without the measurement of just my truck? Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-06-2024, 10:56 PM   #2
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We've calculated the tongue weight at 1100lbs with a Propride hitch.



Some numbers for comparison to your truck/trailer:


We have a 2021 F-150 3.5EB Super Crew HDPP 6.5' bed, 2022 25' FC FBT

Ford Specs
Front GAWR 3750
Rear GAWR 4800
Payload 2421


CAT numbers a couple of years ago on the road

Truck only
Steer axle 3380
Drive axle 2920
Trailer axle 20
Gross Weight 6320

Weight Dist OFF
Steer axle 2960
Drive Axle 4400
Trailer Axle 5740
Gross Weight 13140

Weight Dist ON
Steer axle 3120
Drive Axle 4220
Trailer Axle 5800
Gross Weight 13140
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Old 04-07-2024, 06:33 AM   #3
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No. You do need the empty truck weight to figure the tongue wt from the scale tickets. But...But the weights you have tell you a lot of what you really need to know about the rig. Gross weight, axle weights, front weight restoration.
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Old 04-07-2024, 06:41 AM   #4
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best way is to start with the TV and no AS

measure height from ground to top of wheel well all 4 corners

place AS on ball

re measure all 4 corners
note the delta for each corner

add the wd until the deltas on each corner is the same
that will ensure even weight balance

lots of video that show what to do
some are here
https://www.canamrv.ca/blog/category/hitch-hints/
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Old 04-07-2024, 07:41 AM   #5
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Nope, you need to weigh your truck. That will give you most important # which is TW which affects your truck payload capacity, which is the probably the most critical in a 1/2 ton truck. Check your door sticker for your trucks max payload subtract the TW, from your max payload number and you will know what you can safely carry in your truck while towing.
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Old 04-07-2024, 09:50 AM   #6
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Ideally, you should weigh your truck separately twice:

1. with driver and full tank of fuel. This should be very close to your published curb weight.
2. with TV and Airstream loaded with people and gear as you would be for a trip.

Therefore, curb weight would be a close approximation for #1 but not for #2.

Nonetheless, take the total gross weight, subtract your TV curb weight, (subtract the known weight of any extra passengers)
and then subtract your tailer wheels weight and you are left with tongue weight under condition #1.

Tongue weight could different (up or down) after you load your Airstream. You could then adjust your trailer load plan to optimize your tongue weight.
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Old 04-07-2024, 10:31 AM   #7
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You can purchase a tongue weight scale such as the one we got from etrailer which we use when loading the trailer.
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Old 04-07-2024, 04:57 PM   #8
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All you needed to start with is the tongue weight. If thats within spec, the empty camper weight is already known..

Load responsibly, and the rest is not relevant.
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Old 04-08-2024, 09:49 AM   #9
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Appreciate everyone's feedback. I was able to get back to the CAT scale and weigh just my truck. Unfortunately my wife wasn't in the truck like she was for the trailer measurements but hoping that won't make too big of a change in overall numbers. With that said, can someone please confirm if I'm calculating my tongue weight right?


Today we picked up a “new to us” 2014 Flying Cloud 25RBT and we’re pulling it with an 2021 Ford F150. On the way home from the dealership I stopped at a truck stop to weigh my setup at a CAT Scale. Unfortunately after getting home and reading through some threads I realized I might have missed one measurement and that was my truck by itself without the trailer attached. So here’s what I have from today.

Truck by itself
Steer - 3,300
Drive - 2,660
Gross - 5,960

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution connected
Steer - 3,280
Drive - 3,560
Trailer - 5,160
Gross - 12,000

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution disconnected
Steer - 3,040
Drive - 3,880
Trailer - 5,060
Gross - 11,980

Tongue weight - 960?
(Truck & Trailer with no WD - Truck Only)
(6920 - 5,960)

Is this the right number or do I take Truck & Trailer with WD connected - Truck only?

Follow-up question is my truck has a payload capacity of 1,535 so that would leave me with 575 pounds remaining. The number above are with my added features like bedliner and hard cover so is that taken into account already for the truck along measurements or do I need to subtract out additional weight to bring my remaining payload to approximately 375 pounds? Thanks in advance for the help.
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Old 04-08-2024, 10:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJS1211 View Post
Appreciate everyone's feedback. I was able to get back to the CAT scale and weigh just my truck. Unfortunately my wife wasn't in the truck like she was for the trailer measurements but hoping that won't make too big of a change in overall numbers. With that said, can someone please confirm if I'm calculating my tongue weight right?


Today we picked up a “new to us” 2014 Flying Cloud 25RBT and we’re pulling it with an 2021 Ford F150. On the way home from the dealership I stopped at a truck stop to weigh my setup at a CAT Scale. Unfortunately after getting home and reading through some threads I realized I might have missed one measurement and that was my truck by itself without the trailer attached. So here’s what I have from today.

Truck by itself
Steer - 3,300
Drive - 2,660
Gross - 5,960

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution connected
Steer - 3,280
Drive - 3,560
Trailer - 5,160
Gross - 12,000

Truck & Trailer with the weight distribution disconnected
Steer - 3,040
Drive - 3,880
Trailer - 5,060
Gross - 11,980

Tongue weight - 960?
(Truck & Trailer with no WD - Truck Only)
(6920 - 5,960)

Is this the right number or do I take Truck & Trailer with WD connected - Truck only?

Follow-up question is my truck has a payload capacity of 1,535 so that would leave me with 575 pounds remaining. The number above are with my added features like bedliner and hard cover so is that taken into account already for the truck along measurements or do I need to subtract out additional weight to bring my remaining payload to approximately 375 pounds? Thanks in advance for the help.
Yes, you correct in your tongue weight calculation.

At this point the payload label is less relevant. That is because you really don't know what is included or not in the label calculation. An example would be if the hard cover was installed by the factory, by the dealer, or by you. The labels are there are comparison shopping tools for new trucks.

Focus on the GVWR label on your truck. Deduct your scaled truck weight. The difference is your actual payload if you want to stay within the GVWR number.

Also, focus on the GAWR label numbers. You can be within total weight limits but not optimum in terms of front axle to rear axle.
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Old 04-08-2024, 01:51 PM   #11
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Yes, pay attention to your RAWR. I've seen some F150s with 3400, 4150, 4200, and 4800.
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Old 04-10-2024, 07:41 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJS1211 View Post
Tongue weight - 960?
(Truck & Trailer with no WD - Truck Only)
(6920 - 5,960)

Is this the right number or do I take Truck & Trailer with WD connected - Truck only?

Follow-up question is my truck has a payload capacity of 1,535 so that would leave me with 575 pounds remaining. The number above are with my added features like bedliner and hard cover so is that taken into account already for the truck along measurements or do I need to subtract out additional weight to bring my remaining payload to approximately 375 pounds? Thanks in advance for the help.

What this means is you will be at the maximum rated capacity for this truck as a general rule when in-use. 500LB goes away very fast, especially when your hitch is almost 100LB.

The 25 foot AS campers are too heavy for 1500 truck frames, regardless of how long someone else has been ' doing it ' without ''problems''.

IF you never exceed 55mph, it might be fine, but this is not real-world.
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Old 04-10-2024, 09:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJTX View Post
What this means is you will be at the maximum rated capacity for this truck as a general rule when in-use. 500LB goes away very fast, especially when your hitch is almost 100LB.

The 25 foot AS campers are too heavy for 1500 truck frames, regardless of how long someone else has been ' doing it ' without ''problems''.

IF you never exceed 55mph, it might be fine, but this is not real-world.

!00% wrong, not your "opinion" everybody is entitled to one. Just to be clear your statement "The 25 foot AS campers are too heavy for 1500 truck frames" is just simply incorrect. Or please post up the source you used to come up with your statement that a 1500 truck frame can't handle a 7K trailer.

There are hundreds of thousands of SAE professional engineers who design the trucks & test them who have confirmed your statement is wrong. There's also NHTSA who monitors/controls what an auto manufacture can advertise & print about a trucks towing capacity & per the vehicle manufactures printed documents, manuals & door stickers (which are actually a legal documents) proves your statement wrong.
I don't think an opinion can be wrong but just don't confuse an opinion with facts. In other words a 1500 truck can safely tow what weight the manufacture claims.
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Old 04-10-2024, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2link2 View Post
!00% wrong, not your "opinion" everybody is entitled to one. Just to be clear your statement "The 25 foot AS campers are too heavy for 1500 truck frames" is just simply incorrect. Or please post up the source you used to come up with your statement that a 1500 truck frame can't handle a 7K trailer.

There are hundreds of thousands of SAE professional engineers who design the trucks & test them who have confirmed your statement is wrong. There's also NHTSA who monitors/controls what an auto manufacture can advertise & print about a trucks towing capacity & per the vehicle manufactures printed documents, manuals & door stickers (which are actually a legal documents) proves your statement wrong.
I don't think an opinion can be wrong but just don't confuse an opinion with facts. In other words a 1500 truck can safely tow what weight the manufacture claims.

Just because you can, in this world, does not mean you should. Good luck.
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Old 04-12-2024, 07:48 AM   #15
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Sorta hard for me to accept that a truck that is rated to tow up to 12,000 lbs and has a tongue weight rating of 1250 lbs has a weak frame and won't tow a 7000 lb trailer?
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Old 04-12-2024, 12:30 PM   #16
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Sorta hard for me to accept that a truck that is rated to tow up to 12,000 lbs and has a tongue weight rating of 1250 lbs has a weak frame and won't tow a 7000 lb trailer?
Yup.

Where these statements come from is probably due to the variety of capabilities offered by 1/2 ton trucks. Some 1/2 tons have anemic specs, some have better specs than many 3/4 ton trucks. But there most certainly exist 1/2 ton trucks that can easily manage a 25’ Airstream.

(I have not studied the OP’s truck specs enough to opine whether his 1/2 ton truck is a good match or not.)
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Old 04-12-2024, 12:44 PM   #17
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Load Calculator

Here's a spreadsheet I created for determining weight distribution values. I have used your data in the spreadsheet. The first table has "Rating". The two values not included in your previous posts were the GVWR and the max tongue load of your TV. I used 7300 pounds for your GVWR and 1000 pounds for the max tongue load. Looks like your within the ratings for everything.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx CAT Scale LJS1211.xlsx (12.1 KB, 15 views)
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Old 04-12-2024, 02:00 PM   #18
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Two more things:
1) I entered one number incorrectly into the spreadsheet from your post, see revised spreadsheet attached. You're well within the load ratings of your TV.

2)You have 92% Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR). I believe Ford wants 50% so you may want to dial back on the WD a bit. For 50% FALR you'd want 3170 on the front axle with WD enabled. You are currently at 3280.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx CAT Scale LJS1211.xlsx (12.1 KB, 20 views)
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Old 04-12-2024, 04:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlintiaga View Post
Two more things:
1) I entered one number incorrectly into the spreadsheet from your post, see revised spreadsheet attached. You're well within the load ratings of your TV.

2)You have 92% Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR). I believe Ford wants 50% so you may want to dial back on the WD a bit. For 50% FALR you'd want 3170 on the front axle with WD enabled. You are currently at 3280.
That is a helpful spreadsheet. Thanks for creating and sharing it.
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Old 04-15-2024, 08:13 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Merlintiaga View Post
Two more things:
1) I entered one number incorrectly into the spreadsheet from your post, see revised spreadsheet attached. You're well within the load ratings of your TV.

2)You have 92% Front Axle Load Restoration (FALR). I believe Ford wants 50% so you may want to dial back on the WD a bit. For 50% FALR you'd want 3170 on the front axle with WD enabled. You are currently at 3280.
Wow this is awesome and thanks for putting this spreadsheet together for me. You mentioned I should "dial back" on the WD a bit. What exactly does that mean? I have an Equal-i-zer hitch so not sure if I should add or remove spacers or move the brackets for the bars up or down?
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