Got a Ticket for not having Extended Mirrors

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

The current McKesh is different (cheaper, IMO); JC Whitney sells the old style under a different name (EAGLE, I think) My folks had these and they were very good.

.

Here is a link to these mirrors. I have a set of them also but was told they were made by McKesh.

Wheel Masters - Eagle Vision Portable Rear-View Mirror - Mirrors - Camping World

I understand that most of the State DOT will stop commercial vehicles for possible safety violations, what are they looking for besides tow mirrors and an operational brake away switch? Do they look for such things as fire extinguishers, reflective triangles, condition of tires, sway or weight distribution equipment, etc......

[overlander64]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

I understand that most of the State DOT will stop commercial vehicles for possible safety violations, what are they looking for besides tow mirrors and an operational brake away switch? Do they look for such things as fire extinguishers, reflective triangles, condition of tires, sway or weight distribution equipment, etc......

The safety check-points where I have been stopped have checked the following:

• On the tow vehicle
  • Presence of operable trailer brake controller
  • Presence of appropriately rated trailer hitch
  • Presence of properly operational trailer wiring connector
  • Presence of appropriate trailer towing mirrors
  • Presence of operational brake lights, turn signal indicators, and running lights
  • Presence of operational windshield wipers
  • Presence of operational headlights
  • Condition of window glass in windshield
  • Presence of sufficient tread depth on tires
  • Brake pedal height -- this was only checked in one of my most recent safety stops and I am fairly certain that they were checking for adequate brakes on tow vehicle.
• On the trailer
  • Properly sized and connected safety chains
  • Presence of properly connected trailer breakaway switch - - this has only happened twice at least as far the written reports that I have received.
  • Operation of trailer brake lights, turn signals, and running lights
  • Trailer tire depth meeting minimum safety requirements
  • Operational trailer brakes
• Miscellaneous checks
  • Presence of either traffic warning flares, flashing electric warning devices, or emergency reflective devices were mentioned in two of my most recent safety checks.
  • I have never been aware of my fire extinguisher being checked, and since it is located inside the entry door of the trailer, I know that it hasn't because I have never been asked to open the trailer.
• Things that weren't checked that surprised me
  • LP tank valves in off position -- I know that many will disagree with me, but traveling with the valves open something that I cannot and will not do.
  • The type of tires on trailer - - I would have thought that they would want to insure that the tires were rated either ST (special trailer) or LT (light truck), but nothing other than tread depth was checked.

My partner and I ordered an open car trailer two days ago direct from the manufacturer in Sikeston, Missouri, and I was shocked at the blank stares that I received when I asked several questions - - and even more shocked when I absorbed the responses to my questions:

• I presented the scenario involving transporting my 1975 Cadillac Eldorado convertible (approximately 5,400 pounds for the car) on the trailer:
  • What can you tell me about the trailer brakes?
    • You don't have to worry about trailer brakes. Then I reminded him the the gross weight of the loaded trailer would be in excess of 7,000 pounds
      • His response was that he would include one axle with trailer brakes. My response was that there would be adequately rated (5,000 pounds per axle) trailer brakes on both axles.
      • His response was that this was over-kill, and I reminded him of DOT regulations and insisted that our trailer would meet those requirements.
    • What can you tell me about the breakaway system that you install?
      • The blank stare said it all, but his reply was: "What do you mean?
      • I explained to him what I meant, and he tried to tell me that it wasn't required on a car trailer to which I told him it was a safety necessity in my mind and would be included on our trailer or we would be walking and going to one of the other four manufacturers in town.
    • What can you tell me about the tires on the trailer?
      • His response was that they were 15" tires sourced from a local salvage yard.
      • My response to him was that the trailer would have new, properly rated ST tires to which he replied that there would be a $250 exchange charge to get new, properly rated tires. His explanation was that most of his dealers custom fitted tires and wheels to the trailers to meet the demand of their customers.
    • What can you tell me about the trailer electrical connector included on the trailer?
      • He replied that there was only one type of connector and what what was on my tow vehicle would connect to his trailer.
        • I asked him to prove that with our tow vehicle that was in the parking lot.
        • At the tow vehicle, he began scratching his head, and said: "I have never had any trouble plugging one of our trailers into a tow vehcile.
        • Then I told him that I only utilize heavy-duty round-pin connectors on our tow vehicles. He told me that he had never heard of such a thing so he told me that we would need to bring the proper trailer end when we traveled to Sikeston to pick up our completed car hauler.
      • What can you tell me about the safety chains included on the trailer?
        • His response was: We don't include safety chains and leave that decision up to the customer.
        • My response was that properly rated safety chains were a safety requirement and that we would walk and take our business elsewhere if properly rated chains weren't included.
    • After waiting for what seemed like hours for the salesman to get the pricing on the required safety upgrades he finally came back with a detailed price quote. We still got an excellent deal (over $1,000 below the retail price at a dealer handling the same trailer 120 miles away). I am just uneasy about taking deliver on Monday -- given the number of blank stares that I received during questioning, I know that we are going to have to do a very detailed inspection prior to completing the paperwork and transfer.

Kevin

[Mikethefixit]

Kevin
I hope you canceled the order. Gator in KY make a whole lot better trailer than that. I have one. It has brand new 15inch tires and saftey chains and everything you mentioned your prospective trailer does not. I am pretty sure they come thru now with brakes on both axles. I think they all try to cut corners. I found what I consider to be bad wood in my floor. This meaning it has some cut off corners on the bottoms side where they cut the lumber too close the edge of the log.
Find a manufactuer that complies with all DOT RULES GATOR DOES.
OPPPS sorry I got off track.

[overlander64]

Greetings Mike!

Originally Posted by Mikethefixit

Kevin
I hope you canceled the order. Gator in KY make a whole lot better trailer than that. I have one. It has brand new 15inch tires and saftey chains and everything you mentioned your prospective trailer does not. I am pretty sure they come thru now with brakes on both axles. I think they all try to cut corners. I found what I consider to be bad wood in my floor. This meaning it has some cut off corners on the bottoms side where they cut the lumber too close the edge of the log.
Find a manufactuer that complies with all DOT RULES GATOR DOES.
OPPPS sorry I got off track.

I am confident that we will be getting decent quality with the trailer that we have on order. We inspected several on the lot and in production and the quality of materials and welding is excellent. The itemized specifications for our trailer includes:

• 18' trailer length with 82" between wheel well width
• 4,000 pound Dexter axles with electric drum brakes
• 5" Steel Channel Main Frame
• 4" Steel Channel-Wrap Tongue
• 0.25" Diamond Plate Steel Floor in Trailer
• 5' Ramps with Carriers
• Self-Contained trailer breakaway switch
• 12,000 Pound Safety Chain Package
• 5-new 225 75 R 15 ST Load Range D tires mounted on new white spoke rims
• LED Safety Trailer Lighting package

My neighbors have a trailer from this company that is over a decade old, and its quality is evident in the way that it has held up. I am not overly worried about quality - - my main concern, and something I will be checking very carefully upon delivery, is the presence of the necessary safety equipment.

Kevin

[polarlyse]

Some years ago a friend was moving from New Jersey to Colorado. He rented 3 Ryder rental trucks and I drove one. I have a class A CDL but the drivers of the other 2 did not. He rented trucks that did not require a CDL for that reason. Prior to leaving he wrote to each state to inquire if we were required to stop at the weigh stations on the interstates. Most never responded but the few that did said that since we were transporting personal property we did not need to weigh in. As we headed west we by-passed most all the weigh stations. I think it was either Iowa or Nebraska where it indicated "ALL" on the sign and we decided it best to pull in. It was a simple scale and we were waved through after running over the scale.

So, this is my experience with trucks and crossing the country. I have a Dodge PU that I tow my Airstream with. My mirrors flip up for towing and have sufficient viewing to meet the requirements. ( I think ). I have never been pulled over with my trailer for a saftey inspection although I often wonder if they do. Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'm in full compliance but it's good to be forwarned. Over the years I towed a small pop-up trailer with small cars and probably was not in compliance with the mirrors. I feel much safer driving with a large pickup and good views to the rear. I'll keep the 200' issue in mind next time I hook up.

I'm sympathetic to anyone that gets a ticket. I'm a retired police officer and I've known many fellow officers that just don't seem to find the wherewithall to exercise discretion when it comes to enforcement. I do not think that any are out there with thoughts of raising revenue for the states. Some simply have tunnel vision when it comes to enforcement and just don't see the grey area. I appoligize for those officers. Thankfully they are the minority. I think.

Sorry for the long post. Drive carefully, see ya on the road.

[Mikethefixit]

Kevin
Im sure you will inspect very carefully and have your list close at hand.
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW FLAT.

[Gringo]

I just completed our first trip with our new 27FB. I rented a truck to tow it, a new Ford F350 Superduty with the 6.2 Power stroke. Man, what a truck! anyhow, the mirrors extend, but not far enough to see the back corners of the airstream.

But I discovered something about this floorplan I thought was kinda neat. If I slide open both the front and rear curtains, I can see straight through the trailer with the rear view mirror in the truck. The tinted solar screen thing obscures it slightly, but I can tell by the roof line of the vehicle behind me whether it's a car, pickup, van, etc. But it's no problem to see it.

And at night, of course the lights of any vehicle behind the trailer are very easy to see. Nice feature I hadn't considered.

[overlander64]

Greetings Gringo!

Originally Posted by Gringo

But I discovered something about this floorplan I thought was kinda neat. If I slide open both the front and rear curtains, I can see straight through the trailer with the rear view mirror in the truck. The tinted solar screen thing obscures it slightly, but I can tell by the roof line of the vehicle behind me whether it's a car, pickup, van, etc. But it's no problem to see it.

And at night, of course the lights of any vehicle behind the trailer are very easy to see. Nice feature I hadn't considered.

"See Through Design" is a feature that Wally Byam and Airstream promoted from the early days of the company. While few towed with vehicles in the early days that could take advantage of this feature, it is certainly something to be appreciated when towing with a truck-based vehicle. I have enjoyed this feature on both my 1964 and 1978 coaches.

Enjoy your new Airstream!

Kevin

[RichHog]

Used to see through the Trade Wind pretty easily, haven't tried it on the Safari with rock jades on both ends. Beg to differ on above comment on ticket. When you enter the tourist zones of places like Orlando the ticket was about the revenue for the state. I made no unsafe moves, crossing lanes and was well below speed limit. The way it's set up they know it's cheaper just to mail in the money than to contest in court. Beyond that Even though my mirrors aren't fully extended I can see the back corners of the trailer. Knowing what you can see and can't with a tested rig was a lot safer than the clip on mirrors and the unknown blind spots that occurred next to the trailer

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by overlander63

AFAIK, it is illegal in all 50 states to have a video device, whether it is a television, DVD player, or backup camera where the driver can see it while moving forward. If the driver can see the screen, it has to be off when driving, no matter what the reason or excuse for it being there is.

Originally Posted by mutcth

That's not the case. There are exceptions for safety technology or GPS. Several manufacturers are building surround-view camera systems that show what's directly ahead of the car as well as the sides and rear. They're active when moving forward; it helps when parking.

Tom

Overlander63 is correct! It is illegal to have a rearward viewing video system (in view of the driver) operational when the vehicle is moving forward. Auto companies definitely have to comply with this law for the rear view cameras that they provide as original equipment. Compliance must be reported to the government. Agree or disagree with the law, I believe the rational is driver distraction.

[Gene]

I think the actual reason is some people have been known to watch TV while driving, so they banned any kind of TV screen in the vehicle a driver could see. If there were a rear view system based on a smartphone, maybe you could get away with it if you can argue it is isn't video. I think GPS systems and rear view mirrors can be distracting. GPS has a video like screen, but seems to be ok. But watching a DVD on a iPad probably isn't ok. Rear view mirrors are very dangerous because I can look through 3 of them to see where I've been from the other direction. Sometimes the sights in the rear view mirror are better than the ones in front of me. They are like TV screens in that they project an image. Distinguishing between what is ok and not ok sometimes doesn't follow logically.

What about the computers in trucks—I think truckers aren't supposed to use them while driving, but many do. And the computers in police cars—don't they use them to check license plates and other things?

I'm sure factory rear cameras are automatically disabled when the vehicle is moving forward, but after market systems may not be. I'm sure there are people who have installed a rear camera on a trailer and wired it to a screen in the tow vehicle—if I remember correctly some Airstreams were pre-wired for something like that.

Gene

[Mikethefixit]

Rich HOG Your comment about the tourist trap is Excatly correct,its all about the revenue. OHIO had done that to truck drivers for years. THEY know that a truck driver will not fight a ticket,they will just pay the money,cause they dont have time to go to court. ITS ALL FIGURED THAT WAY.I drove for 35 yrs over the road and Trust me I know.
ROGER

[Silver Goose]

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I haven't found it discussed searching for what I thought might take me to a link. Many of the new models are spec'd as 8' 5.5" wide. Most states allow trailers up to 8' 6". A chart I'm looking at shows a handful of states that have an 8' width limit. Has anyone any problem driving through those states with that limit?

[Gene]

There is a lot of info on the internet about that, some of it conflicting and some articles may be out of date. Internet articles often do not have dates on them and laws change frequently.

Here are some links:
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Which states limit RV width to 8 feet MAX?
2010 Driving Laws for the US and Canada
Is Your RV Too Wide To Legally Be On The Road Without An Oversized Load Permit? - The Fun Times Guide to RVing
State Towing Laws for RVs

After you read all that, I'm sure you will wonder what the answer is. The only way to be sure is check with state highway departments or look up the state statutes. I guess I've broken some traffic laws in the east, but I've been breaking other traffic laws since 1959. Every article I read, including ones I didn't post, said no one has heard of anyone being cited for an oversize trailer.

Gene

[Silver Goose]

Thanks, Gene. There was some interesting reading there. I agree; many of those charts are not dated and some contradict which states have the 8' limit. I went through and overnighted in MD last year with no problem. As one mentioned, he bought his wide body trailer in MD. One would assume if he got his plates there also, the state would be blessing his rig to travel it's roads. Likewise for OR.

[RichHog]

I got my "thank you" note from Florida DPS this week. Another $23 late fee since they received the check a day late. Then a second envelope the same day with a nice picture of the back of my trailer and license plate. Seems that at one of the toll booths coming into Orlando an attendant had waved me past the pay booth and the camera didn't catch me with the window rolled down with a twenty in my hand trying to pay. Who says it not about the money there? So $116 for ticket + $23 late fee + $20 toll violation. Priceless

[Gringo]

Our new AS is in Texas. That's as far east as it's ever gonna be while we own it.

[JFScheck]

My Airstream is registered in Maryland - no 8' limit here - or at least enforced...

[pmclemore]

Originally Posted by Gringo

Our new AS is in Texas. That's as far east as it's ever gonna be while we own it.

Man, Gringo. That's cold.

Pat
from Virginia.

[jdthor]

"Improper mirrors are admittedly one of my pet peeves and were I in law enforcement probably one of the things I would be tough on."

We don't make a habit of stopping and citing for equipment violations unless attitude becomes an issue on a speed stop or DWI.

On the other hand it is hard to hold back my guys after they have worked a couple of fatal accidents where the innocent victims died because the violator "couldn't see them" during a lane change. Not a frequent event but it does happen.

We do look for unsafe driving combined with tow vehicle trailer combinations (swerving, swaying across lanes, too much speed, stuff like that) which happens a lot. Often alcohol is part of that problem.