Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-17-2010, 12:43 AM   #41
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,006
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
hypocrite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
Whether it’s a ‘half’ or ‘three-quarter-ton’ isn’t the real issue.
You should not be using a ‘friction sway-bar’ with a 30’ trailer.
You need a ‘dual-cam’, at the very least. Preferably, a 3P or Hensley.

Hi, Joe wrote this: "( I've never experienced that before - even when I towed a 2005 31' Classic with a seriously under-rated RAM 1500 AND friction sway-bar )"

My Mom used to say that some people need to look in a mirror!
__________________

__________________
Bob

2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent"
[ Small Silver Castle ]
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 10:47 AM   #42
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Joe. I personally think this is a pretty harsh analogy coming from someone who can't stop their own trailer from swaying even with the $3,000.00 magic hitch.
You are right. I am experiencing problems with my rig. Whether it's my Hensley "magic hitch" Arrow, Suburban, Airstream, or a combination of them all is yet to be determined. But the fact that my rig performed flawlessly with the Arrow for nearly 2 years, strongly indicates there is obviously a problem somewhere, I'm overlooking. BTW, thanks for all your helpful comments on that thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, Joe wrote this: "( I've never experienced that before - even when I towed a 2005 31' Classic with a seriously under-rated RAM 1500 AND friction sway-bar )"

My Mom used to say that some people need to look in a mirror!
RS,
I wouldn't be so quick to apply the label "hypocrite".
Rather, take my opinions for what they are worth; that is: someone who has real world towing experience using a REESE WD with friction-bar, an Equal-I-zer setup, and a Hensley Arrow- on vehicles including: 1500 RAM, Excursion, Expedition, 3500 RAM CTD, and 2500 Suburban...

I'm certain, if you actually had any time on an Arrow vs. friction-sway, you would undoubtedly conclude that 'pivot-point-projection' is a superior hitching system.
__________________

__________________
A family of eight, blogging all things camping from our Airstream
https://boondockdad.com/
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 07:31 PM   #43
Vintage Kin
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airstreamer67 View Post
Any trailer that has a "sway" under normal conditions is a sick puppy. It needs fixing before any superhitch is employed.

After all, aren't these the best towing trailers on the planet?

Incidently, I've been using the classic brainless friction anti-sway bars for decades from coast-to-coast with no sway problems whatsoever. This includes using them not only on the best towing trailer on the planet, but on the underlings as well.
Would be easy enough to show with a camera. Just because you don't feel it (or see it in the mirrors) doesn't mean the trailer isn't always looking to get around the TV. It's there . . however minor the side-to-side movement TT and TV do not follow the same line except in general. There are a few brands of hitch that will eliminate this. I point out this motion to passengers all the time. Once one knows what to look for it's obvious.

.
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 11:58 PM   #44
Maniacal Engineer
 
barts's Avatar
 
1971 25' Tradewind
Menlo Park , California
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,239
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by REDNAX View Post
Would be easy enough to show with a camera. Just because you don't feel it (or see it in the mirrors) doesn't mean the trailer isn't always looking to get around the TV.
.
No, actually, it's just the physics of the situation. There will be small oscillations as the trailer reacts to road bumps, etc. This is perfectly normal and not dangerous; trailer dynamics are typically underdamped, so that a step disturbance causes several dying oscillations - like a pendulum... the trailer is really not plotting your demise

At the risk of sounding like a broken record: if your trailer starts swaying back and forth w/o driver input while towing on flat ground, get it checked out right away. Do NOT apply any patent nostrums in the way of sway damping hitches - something is Out of Spec, and should be corrected first.

- Bart
__________________
Bart Smaalders
Menlo Park, CA
https://tinpickle.blogspot.com
https://smaalders.net/barts
barts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:05 AM   #45
Rivet Master
 
Ag&Au's Avatar
 
Port Orchard , Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,464
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by barts View Post
I may not have been clear: if you have a trailer that sways back and forth noticeably (from the tow vehicle, not the trailer's rear bumper) under normal towing conditions w/o a sway reducing hitch - something is wrong, and you should address the cause of the problem rather than slapping damping (friction) on it and hoping it goes away under all conditions.

-= Bart
Yes,

You are 100% correct:

Something is wrong. Maybe the wind is blowing, the road surface is uneven, you just applied the brakes, a large vehicle just passed, the road is slick, someone just cut you off, an animal ran across the road in front of you, etc, etc..... These type of wrong things happen all the time when drivng.

I am impressed by your driving and towing skills. I have read many of your posts on these forums where you tell of your experiences towing large trailers with simply a hitch and ball.

Maybe the problem is that the rest of us mortals do not posess your skills.

What I don't inderstand is why it is seems so important to you that the rest of us drive lightly rigged as you do. I am glad that it works for you, but it is not going to work for everyone.

Ken
Ag&Au is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 09:50 AM   #46
Sky
Classic 30
 
Sky's Avatar
 
Sum Wear , Ohio
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 581
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
blah blah blah
.... where you’ll stay while he, at his leisure, feasts on your bloated corpse…
blah blah blah
Tell us another story uncle Joe, please please please
__________________
"Only dull people are brilliant at breakfast" - Oscar Wilde

2500HD DMax............30' Classic
__________________
Sky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 10:03 AM   #47
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
Images: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
Tell us another story uncle Joe, please please please

Nighty-nite, Sky.
Bedtime for you, while you let the grown-ups talk
__________________
A family of eight, blogging all things camping from our Airstream
https://boondockdad.com/
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
VIKING's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Boulder Creek , California
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
Yes,

You are 100% correct:

Something is wrong. Maybe the wind is blowing, the road surface is uneven, you just applied the brakes, a large vehicle just passed, the road is slick, someone just cut you off, an animal ran across the road in front of you, etc, etc..... These type of wrong things happen all the time when drivng.

I am impressed by your driving and towing skills. I have read many of your posts on these forums where you tell of your experiences towing large trailers with simply a hitch and ball.

Maybe the problem is that the rest of us mortals do not posess your skills.

What I don't inderstand is why it is seems so important to you that the rest of us drive lightly rigged as you do. I am glad that it works for you, but it is not going to work for everyone.

Ken

I don't get the impression that Barts is trying to talk anyone into doing anything dangerous. Rather, it seems that he is relating something he experienced while towing a rig without anti-sway.
This is so common with boat haulers that they would probably think you are a little off if you suggest anti-sway, or wd is necessary.
It seems to me that there is a issue with a trailer that sways without any input at highway speeds. If your axles are out of alignment or your tires are screwed up, or you are loaded incorrectly, and you use a super-hitch to keep it in-line, what are you putting unnecessary wear on? Probably all of your running-gear and your hitch.
I wouldn't advocate hauling your Airstream without a-s and w-d, but I understand the analogy is just an analogy, not a recommendation..

Rich the Viking
VIKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 02:15 PM   #49
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
the boat issue is tossed out regularly, it's a non starter.

different center of mass/gravity, different axle placement, different tongue load, different mass in the wind...

and so on.

and a lot of toad'boats DO end up in a ditch or off the road.
__________

bart might be suggesting proper setup helps and it does.

the problem is what part is or is NOT properly set up, there are dozens of issues 2 dial in properly.

there is often the undertone (perhaps not in this thread) that "more experienced drivers"...

simply don't need sway control OR sway elimination gadgets.

because their driving skill and experience supersedes advanced equipment (like abs or shoulder harnesses)..

this topic has been beaten well in older threads and the info is still relevant.

the op basically writes "got the wiggles, what should i do?"

which has morphed into the broader "how to address sway or dynamics of towing" theme.

many of the issues worth considering are in this one post...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...tml#post467652

and reading these threads may help some.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...res-37009.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...rol-37238.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...low-58771.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...sway-4636.html

ken's point is that EVEN once everything is dialed in properly the 4 bar/pivot point projecting hitches...

simply provide a smoother, more relaxed and controlled towing experience.

and there is NO reason to discourage folks from using these gadgets,

it's NOT about masking faulty setups, it is about improving the towing experience.

i've read 100s of posts from guys doubting this and claiming 'proper setup' = perfect towing.

the simple fact is that whenever those guys finally try towing a rig with the fancy hitches...

they very quickly realize that EVEN with a good setup there is a difference in the driving experience.
________

there are very few details provided by the op and no pics of the rig...

so providing useful/specific/relevant guidance is umpossible.

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 11:33 AM   #50
Rot-Roo Rastro!!
 
silversled's Avatar
 
2014 30' Classic
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 100
I never pull nothing faster than 60 mph.. Slow Down...
silversled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 12:44 PM   #51
3 Rivet Member
 
mhilley's Avatar
 
2000 23' Safari
Vero Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 180
I am with BillyJoe! Slow down!
mhilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 12:50 PM   #52
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,805
Images: 5
I tow at 63MPH. Safety first reason. Also, that's the road speed where my TV torque curve just peaks in direct drive (4 speed Overdrive tranny). That's the most economical speed for my setup.
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 12:53 PM   #53
Rivet Master
 
Silverwanabe's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Winston Salem , North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 523
Images: 107
First, visit ODM for assistance

Secondly, tow at slower speeds.

55-60 mph..
__________________
Greg
Winston Salem, NC
WBCCI 5218,
Corresponding Secretary Piedmont NC Unit 161,
1967 Overlander International.
1979 Avion 30ft rear bath
TV's 88 Chevy Suburban 454, 3:42, TH400
95 Cadillac FW Brougham, LT1,3:42, 7k tow pk.
Silverwanabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 05:59 PM   #54
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
Images: 21
Here's what a 31' A/S and Dodge 2500 using a REESE WD with friction bar looks like.

At 65 mph, on a slight uphill. The sway was instantaneously uncontrollable. I felt a slight tug to one side, then I turned my head out my driver side window and was seeing the tail of my 'stream next to me.

There was no time to react.

We rolled 5-6 times. Hitch stayed connected. Everyone walked away from this gator attack. These are the pix from the junk yard in WV, where I went to salvage some of our stuff afterward.











__________________
A family of eight, blogging all things camping from our Airstream
https://boondockdad.com/
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 06:29 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
Here's what a 31' A/S and Dodge 2500 using a REESE WD with friction bar looks like.

At 65 mph, on a slight uphill. The sway was instantaneously uncontrollable. I felt a slight tug to one side, then I turned my head out my driver side window and was seeing the tail of my 'stream next to me.

There was no time to react.

OMG, so what was the cause of the sway?
r carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2010, 06:54 PM   #56
Vintage Kin
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by r carl View Post
OMG, so what was the cause of the sway?
Obviously, not a big enough tow vehicle . . nor enough driver skill or presence of mind or other irrational "reason" some like to come up with when it comes to narrowing risk against the day it happens to any of us.

Really doesn't matter, now, does it? The cause.

Same thing happened to my folks with theirs.

Do the homework, don't settle for half measures, use true numbers to set hitch rigging. And spring the wallet for the best hitch & brakes.

Be meticulous with the details on an ongoing, disciplined basis . . and have a pile of scale tickets to CYA.


.
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 08:46 AM   #57
4 Rivet Member
 
Airstreamer67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 329
One problem I see is the hitch had only half of the recommended anti-sway bars on it.

For trailers over about 25 feet, two anti-sway bars commonly are recommended by the manufacturers for proper sway control. The pictured hitch seems to have only one.
Airstreamer67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 11:02 AM   #58
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
Images: 21
Interesting. I've not seen that recommendation in any REESE literature.
The A/S dealer recommended, installed and configured the single friction sway bar/WD bars for that rig.

Regardless, do I think another friction bar would have made a difference in this scenario?
Without a doubt, no.

You'd be better off tossing some salt over your shoulder, before heading out, than futzing with that little friction bar on your hitch.
__________________
A family of eight, blogging all things camping from our Airstream
https://boondockdad.com/
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 11:58 AM   #59
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
Interesting. I've not seen that recommendation in any REESE literature.
The A/S dealer recommended, installed and configured the single friction sway bar/WD bars for that rig.

Regardless, do I think another friction bar would have made a difference in this scenario?
Without a doubt, no.

You'd be better off tossing some salt over your shoulder, before heading out, than futzing with that little friction bar on your hitch.
Sway controls, either friction or torsion, are great. One has a brain, so to speak and the other doesn't.

Deciding, in this case what would happen if 2 friction sway controls were used instead of one.

That really, isn't the issue. The issue is "what allowed the sway to start in the first place"?

If a sway doesn't start, then most likely, the rigging is correct. If it does start, then there is always a reason.

About 85 percent of loss of control accidents, can be avoided, which has been proven over and over again.

The other 15 percent, are simply in an "unknown cause" category.

The causes can be from many things, including blowout's.

Most often, about two thirds of those losses, were related to improper rigging.

I will post a photo, later today, of a roll over that's in our shop at this time. The cause in this case, was simply "panic".

Andy
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 12:33 PM   #60
Rivet Master
 
boondockdad's Avatar
 
2008 30' Classic S/O
Dearborn , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,403
Images: 21
I would agree, there wasn't a single factor that contributed to this failure- but more likely, a combination of several all happening at exactly the same time... a perfect storm

Doing all the things we debate, here on the forums, simply reduces (some more than others) the percentages of this 'perfect storm' happening.
__________________

__________________
A family of eight, blogging all things camping from our Airstream
https://boondockdad.com/
boondockdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fishtailing


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trailer Sway or Fishtailing 68 Overlander Hitches, Couplers & Balls 9 12-13-2007 06:43 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.