Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-28-2017, 11:19 PM   #1
1 Rivet Member
 
2016 25' International
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 7
(First Trip!) Leaving for 2 months, questions about payload...

Hi everyone,
I've been an avid forum reader for about a year now since my wife and I embarked on the journey that brought us to airstreams. This forum has been a huge asset to us and has directed many of the decisions we've made. So thanks to everyone here for all of your guidance and for creating such a cool community.

I've read a lot over throughout my research about payloads with vehicles but I wanted to get the feedback directly from the community to make sure I'm approaching packing properly before taking off.

I purchased a 2013 Ford F150 Ecoboost V6 back in December. I love the truck and have towed the airstream now multiple times but only on short trips. I got a pro pride hitch so the ride has been super pleasant each time.

The issue that keeps coming up for me is the sticker on the inside of my door says max payload is 1131. We are towing a 2016 international 25' FB with a tongue weight of 837#. I read about what the pro pride adds and while I'm slightly confused and not certain, it appears to add another 125-175#. As you can see, after I add in my wife and I, our two dogs we are just over the suggested payload by appx 200# without any cargo in the bed.

Now, the other thing I am not factoring in is the manufacturers margin of error. I believe the extra 200# is likely what the sticker could read as the actual suggested payload. But regardless, my question would still stand.

We are taking a long trip. From Atlanta to Canada, through BC>Washington>Oregon>California>Colorado>back home. For that reason I've got quite a few supplies I believe are necessities. Generator, tool kit, 5 gallon gas tank, 7 gallon water tank, etc. Comes out when everything is loaded in the bed to another 300#.

So based on the above I'd be riding around somewhere between 300-500# over the suggested payload. And I believe the sticker should be taken with some degree of understood variance, but I also don't want to embark on this first trip putting my wife (or my dogs) or anyone else, at risk.

So, the question is, if the payload is truly overdone, will I feel it when I take off in the wheels or the brakes? Or could it be overloaded and I wouldn't notice? If the latter, does anyone have any suggestions here for how to best approach this?

I know there is a lot more experience with this particular scenario on this forum than I have so I welcome advice, feedback or suggestions!

We are really excited about the trip and feel most areas are prepared. This is one last hang up I'm having that seems to have a lot of varying information, so figured I'd throw my specific scenario out and get a conversation going. Maybe it will help someone else down the road.

Either way, thanks in advance and maybe I'll catch you on the road.
__________________

Roadtrippin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 11:24 PM   #2
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,145
Load it for travel, and go get it weighed. Then it will be a discussion about real weights, axle loads, and so on, and not theoretical.

That said, you are likely to be over your published payload figure for the tow vehicle. It will come down to what the axle weight ratings are, what the actual axle loads are, and how comfortable you are with that.
__________________

jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2017, 11:46 PM   #3
1 Rivet Member
 
2016 25' International
Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Load it for travel, and go get it weighed. Then it will be a discussion about real weights, axle loads, and so on, and not theoretical.

That said, you are likely to be over your published payload figure for the tow vehicle. It will come down to what the axle weight ratings are, what the actual axle loads are, and how comfortable you are with that.
Thanks for the reply.

I definitely plan to have it weighed once I'm en route.

I agree a good deal of this does come down to my comfort level with it being over. I guess I'm just trying to dig in to set that comfort level by getting a better understanding of what exactly driving with 500#+ over payload actually translates to...

Is it simply slower response times in terms of brakes and steering and potential wear on suspension long term, or is it a life threatening issue that could potentially disable my ability to control the vehicle at some point during the drive.

Thanks again
Roadtrippin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 12:02 AM   #4
jcl
Rivet Master
 
Currently Looking...
Vancouver , British Columbia
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,145
There isn't a single answer to that, it depends on what is over.

There are also likely to be responses with a lot of emotion based on even proposing exceeding manufacturer's recommendations, just based on past history.

Don't wait to weigh it. Once you are on the road it is a little late to start lightening payload.

If you are over axle and tire limits, then it is a safety issue IMO. Blowouts aren't fun.

If you are within published axle and tire limits, then any accelerated wear issues related to vertical forces are likely under control. That moves the discussion to longitudinal forces, braking and accelerating (leaving aside handling dynamics for a moment). If you are over the TV GVWR, but within the published combined vehicle weight rating (GCVWR), then the manufacturer expected that you could stop and start that load.

In all cases, slowing down is a benefit, both to handling responsiveness and stability. If your weight distributing equipment is set up well, a few hundred pounds over on payload isn't a big issue (assuming you are within axle and tire ratings). If it isn't set up well, then the issues of overweight and poor set up compound each other, and yes, that can impact your ability to control the combination.

There's a start.

Jeff
jcl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 06:22 AM   #5
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,395
Blog Entries: 1
Yes, weigh it loaded. Get weight of each axle hooked up and weight of each axle unloaded. One reason is to find out how much weight the trailer is adding and where it is added. Some of the tongue weight may be carried by the TT axle when hitched. The published tongue weight may not be really useful. You can get what you really need in 2 passes over the scales. One hitched and ready to go. One with the TV unhitched. You will not end up knowing everything that way but it is quick and you get the essentials. Probably you will want to go home, think it over, re hitch, and try again before the trip,

Could be the low payload is a result of the tires supplied with the truck. You can change tires (and wheels) if that is the case.

You also need the weights to set up the weight distribution for the hitch. WD is going to me important when you are at or over the payload.

You probably have some payload for carrying stuff in the trailer if it is carefully loaded so as not to scuff the trailer up and to keep it over the axles. Between the 2, I would rather have the truck overloaded than the trailer though.

As was pointed out above, make sure the tires and axles are rated to carry the actual load. Then you might make a realistic guess as to what you need and what you can leave behind. I used to run Ford vans with a wheelchair lift. What I can tell you is if you are "running heavy" you should change the rear axle fluid at fairly low intervals. We went through 3 wheel bearing failures in about 10 years. All after the vans had a 100,000 or so miles on them though.

I am guilty of carrying way to many tools. But I have the payload for it. You should not need a lot of tools and Ace Hardware and Low's are very convent with a trailer usually if you need something. I carry my gas can empty and only fill it if we are in one spot a while. Not for weight, but I just don't like carrying gas. My suggestion is to start out very light on everything, including tools and clothing and entertainment stuff and then just buy what you cannot do without while on the road. There is no point in carrying a gas grill, for instance, if you only use it 2 nights on a trip.

Do not worry excessively after you have weighed and adjusted it. 2 months is still short trips. Just added together. I have see a lot of 150's successfully pulling Airstreams. Do not know the details of each rig but they all seemed to be up to the task.
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 08:08 AM   #6
Moderator
 
moosetags's Avatar

 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
2012 23' FB Flying Cloud
2005 25' Safari
Santa Rosa Beach , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,898
Images: 5
I think that Bill M touched on an issue that is important and easily correctable. As he said, the OEM tires that came on the truck could be a factor in the factory determination of the payload. Many half ton trucks come with passenger car tires that are marginal for heavy payloads.

Check your tires to see what type they are. If they are P rated, simply going to LT tires may favorably impact your load situation.

Brian
__________________
SuEllyn & Brian McCabe
WBCCI #3628 -- AIR #14872 -- TAC #FL-7
2015 FC 25' FB (Lucy) with HAHA
2020 Silverado 2500 (Vivian)
moosetags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 08:29 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar

 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Melbourne Beach , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,922
Remember that the weight distribution feature of the Propride will transfer some of the weight from the truck to the trailer.

I don't have the thread handy, but find one of the threads on weighing. In general you make three weight measurements, all under the same conditions and preferably
loaded as for camping.

1. One weighing - truck alone
2. One weighing - truck and trailer without weight distribution cranked in
3. One weighing - truck and trailer with weight distribution cranked in

Ideally you would use a CAT scale at a truck stop, but I have used the scale at a moving and storage company. The CAT scale has three platforms. Put the truck front (steer) axle on one, the truck rear (drive) axle on the middle one and the trailer axles on the third.

Using the moving and storage scale, I had to make three weighings for each of the above. One for the truck front axle, one for both truck axles, and one for the trailer. Subtract one from two to get rear axle weight.

Then it is a mathematical exercise to determine the relationship to your TV (and TT) limits.

Compare the TV axle weights from 3 to your axle load ratings.
Total the steer and drive axle weights for 3. Compare the number to your TV GVWR.
Total all the axles from 3 and compare to your GCVWR.

Having some margin on all the above is good. I'm conservative so I like to see 10% or more on payload and trailer weight ratings. Some on here say it is OK to use up the manufacturer's implicit safety margin. I think that is risky, YMMV.

Al
__________________
"You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO
WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins



Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 08:32 AM   #8
Vintage Kin
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
Images: 1
"Payload" is a marketing term. No one who works a vehicle pays attention to it. The axle/tire/wheel ratings matter.

The easy way to look at the difference is customer expectation. How the pickup behaves when loaded. There's a point where the load -- more than the road or conditions otherwise -- dictates driving.

No pickup truck out there has any highway performance outside of 55-65/mph (same for a Sprinter). Top-heavy in any condition.

The genuine wealth of the United States has become (in my lifetime) the abundance of stupid people. Their origins or potentials matter not. Daily can be seen running 75 in a pickup ten feet off the next vehicles rear bumper. A vehicle that can just barely get out of its own way at 55.

The problems are braking distance, time to speed, and severely reduced steering angles once loaded heavy.

Stupidity tells the commoner that not road, load or conditions hinder his childish apperception. (Or those around here who act as if obeying this marketing term now frees them to drive like the fools they are).

Consider "payload" to be the long-term recommended maximum. A trip of a few thousand miles -- and a few hundred pounds over -- isn't within that recommendation.

Someone who genuinely works the truck is using those figures as a way of calculating long term viability.

But as that would involve everything from record-keeping, cross-checks, maintenance schedule reductions and experimentation, figure it as outside the standard American ability. The reverse of the country into which I was born.

Your tires matter most. Best shock absorbers (new vehicle or not probably not the OEM pieces), poly bushings on anti-roll bars, etc. A few tweaks to emphasize feedback.

Go weigh it. Driver, full fuel and the stuff on it that's permanent. That's your TARE weight. The lowest it can be. Get a handle on tire pressure. Test that, too.

Most of all, this TARE weight is the meaningless figure or experience as it isn't the norm. The norm is the truck, loaded. So get a handle on assumptions and sharpen perceptions of real versus unreal.

You might be a man if actual testing of braking distance from above sixty-mph under normal (loaded) conditions is already part of your plan.

Don't get hung up on weight. It's a second, even third order problem. Your real problem with stability will be the WDH settings. The trailer is superior to a pickup. The pickup is likeliest to be the primary vehicular cause of a loss-of-control accident. Hooked to a trailer it is even less stable than before. You've chosen a handicap. Remedy it.

On that there is not -- nor should there be -- an end to interest.

Good luck.
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 02:54 PM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
Frederica , Delaware
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 88
Follow this guide under the "4 step weight safety plan".

http://fifthwheelst.com/rv-weighing-worksheet.html

It will do the math for you, if you follow instructions it will tell you where you are at as far as weights. Don't get over confident with that hitch. It is great I know, but I also know if the front (steer) axle is too light steering and braking input will be comprised. I have a Hensley very similar to your Pro Pride. At the time I was a few hundred pounds over payload and my trailer was pushing me under heavy braking. It was ugly for a few moments, no damage but easily could have been.

I would put every thing heavy that's going in truck bed against the cab to help balance some weight. If you do have P rated tires put all 4 at max PSI per side wall. Changing to a LT tire is not technically going to change axle/payload ratings. The weakest link will then be shifted to axle. What it will do is offer more stability with less side wall flex. That Pro pride may not allow you to notice a difference. Because you are purdy darn stable as it is!
Overloaded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 07:00 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetags View Post
I think that Bill M touched on an issue that is important and easily correctable. As he said, the OEM tires that came on the truck could be a factor in the factory determination of the payload. Many half ton trucks come with passenger car tires that are marginal for heavy payloads.

Check your tires to see what type they are. If they are P rated, simply going to LT tires may favorably impact your load situation.

Brian
Sorry but that is not how it works.
The max axle weights are calculated as the vehicle is built. A tire is matched with that wight plus 20%.
Exchanging D rated tires with E will not increase the axle load capacity.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2017, 07:13 PM   #11
Rivet Master
 
2017 30' Classic
Anna Maria , Florida
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrippin View Post
Hi everyone,
I've been an avid forum reader for about a year now since my wife and I embarked on the journey that brought us to airstreams. This forum has been a huge asset to us and has directed many of the decisions we've made. So thanks to everyone here for all of your guidance and for creating such a cool community.

I've read a lot over throughout my research about payloads with vehicles but I wanted to get the feedback directly from the community to make sure I'm approaching packing properly before taking off.

I purchased a 2013 Ford F150 Ecoboost V6 back in December. I love the truck and have towed the airstream now multiple times but only on short trips. I got a pro pride hitch so the ride has been super pleasant each time.

The issue that keeps coming up for me is the sticker on the inside of my door says max payload is 1131. We are towing a 2016 international 25' FB with a tongue weight of 837#. I read about what the pro pride adds and while I'm slightly confused and not certain, it appears to add another 125-175#. As you can see, after I add in my wife and I, our two dogs we are just over the suggested payload by appx 200# without any cargo in the bed.

Now, the other thing I am not factoring in is the manufacturers margin of error. I believe the extra 200# is likely what the sticker could read as the actual suggested payload. But regardless, my question would still stand.

We are taking a long trip. From Atlanta to Canada, through BC>Washington>Oregon>California>Colorado>back home. For that reason I've got quite a few supplies I believe are necessities. Generator, tool kit, 5 gallon gas tank, 7 gallon water tank, etc. Comes out when everything is loaded in the bed to another 300#.

So based on the above I'd be riding around somewhere between 300-500# over the suggested payload. And I believe the sticker should be taken with some degree of understood variance, but I also don't want to embark on this first trip putting my wife (or my dogs) or anyone else, at risk.

So, the question is, if the payload is truly overdone, will I feel it when I take off in the wheels or the brakes? Or could it be overloaded and I wouldn't notice? If the latter, does anyone have any suggestions here for how to best approach this?

I know there is a lot more experience with this particular scenario on this forum than I have so I welcome advice, feedback or suggestions!

We are really excited about the trip and feel most areas are prepared. This is one last hang up I'm having that seems to have a lot of varying information, so figured I'd throw my specific scenario out and get a conversation going. Maybe it will help someone else down the road.

Either way, thanks in advance and maybe I'll catch you on the road.
Your payload of 1,130 lbs sounds rather low. Did your truck come with a heavy duty tow package ?
Our 2012 Ecoboost with the heavy duty tow package came with 1,570 lbs payload. Even with that I was constantly at 1,850 lbs road ready and it did effect road handling. Eventually we traded up to a 3/4 ton as a result.
You need to find a scale close as possible so you can make the necessary trips. Weigh the truck axles without a load and Trailer. Load it up with your trip gear only and reweigh. After all that hook up the trailer with some water in the tank, WD hitch engaged and weigh again, and finally weigh with the WD disengaged. This will give you a clear picture of what you got to deal with. While the truck can handle a couple of hundred extra pounds it will effect handling that you can count on especially pulling a trailer.
franklyfrank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2017, 04:02 PM   #12
4 Rivet Member
 
2017 30' International
Lincolnwood , Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 285
weighing at scale

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
Load it for travel, and go get it weighed. Then it will be a discussion about real weights, axle loads, and so on, and not theoretical.

That said, you are likely to be over your published payload figure for the tow vehicle. It will come down to what the axle weight ratings are, what the actual axle loads are, and how comfortable you are with that.
I agree
Load it, get it weighed at a Cat scale or similar scale and you will know exactly
where you are at with regards to axle ratings.
Keep in mind, a good weight distributing hitch will transfer weight to the front axle of the truck and also back to the trailer axles.You may be just under or at your max payload because of this.

Weigh the entire combo hitched and unhitched to get a true picture of how much weight is being transferred. I have a hitch scale I use when done loading so make sure that I do not exceed the the max tongue weight for the
hitch I have on my truck. Check your sticker on the hitch you have on your truck. it will tell you the max weight distributed tongue weight allowed.
The one I have on my truck reads 1200 lbs max with weight distributing hitch.
Harry
__________________

Milo1952 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two night shake down before leaving for an extended trip reelfastgreg On The Road... 10 03-06-2015 06:37 PM
Good place to stay first night after leaving disney world. gomotomoto Our Community 12 09-26-2014 05:54 AM
First two months in our new 23' Safari SE LS OrangeKid 2007 Safari SE 5 03-28-2007 01:20 PM
First Trailer, First Trip Tin Diesel On The Road... 15 02-01-2006 12:23 AM
First Big Trip, First Time Float Tubers :eek: Rhodie On The Road... 14 08-11-2005 02:18 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.