F-250 Gas or Diesel????

[Skater]

Originally Posted by colberjs

May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:

I have an '06 6.0.

1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.

That's fine when you're in an area you're familiar with (I realized recently that the gas station where I get my diesel also supplies the local FedEx trucks....good sign!). But on the road that can be much harder. There was nothing outwardly wrong with the Exxon where I got my watery diesel the second time, and it was right along a major interstate, so you'd think they'd sell enough to prevent that issue.

As I said, though, it hasn't happened since despite several thousand miles of traveling. Of course most of those miles include getting fuel from truck stops or the trusted stations at home.

2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.

Again, '06 6.0. I did acknowledge the newer ones are better.

3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.

It's a question of what mileage I'd be getting with a gasser. I get about 11 mpg with the diesel (we travel over plenty of hills) while towing; if it were, say, 9 mpg, with gas, it's just a matter of running some numbers to figure out which is cheaper at given price points and given how many miles I tow.

5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.

Yes, but it is something additional you have to worry about. As I said, not a huge deal, but one more expense and one more thing to check. We'd also need to factor the DEF cost into the efficiency calculations if we really want to answer the "which is cheaper to run" question.

6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.

Here, at most 50% of the stations have diesel, I'd guess.

[crisen]

Since the power to overcome aerodynamic drag goes up by the cube of the increase in velocity it would help in comparing mileage figures if folks could also post the speeds they tow at.
We just got back from a 13K trip with a SOB toyhauler, 9000lbs towing at 58-62 and averaged 11.2 for the trip with an '08 Dodge 3500 with the 6.7 Cummins. It has a DPF and no urea tank. It gets right about 19 at the same speeds by itself, has almost hit 20 a few times.

The Cummins needed about 30,000 miles on it for the mileage to peak out which from what i know is not unusual for them. Don't know about other brands.

I am hoping for at least a 2 mpg increase when we find our Airstream.

Rick

[colberjs]

Originally Posted by Skater

It's a question of what mileage I'd be getting with a gasser. I get about 11 mpg with the diesel (we travel over plenty of hills) while towing; if it were, say, 9 mpg, with gas, it's just a matter of running some numbers to figure out which is cheaper at given price points and given how many miles I tow.



Yes, but it is something additional you have to worry about. As I said, not a huge deal, but one more expense and one more thing to check. We'd also need to factor the DEF cost into the efficiency calculations if we really want to answer the "which is cheaper to run" question.

No sure what the rice differences are where you are at but diesel here is about 3.50/gal and gas is around 3.20/gal. So......

Diesel @ 3.50/gal at 16 mpg (that would be a realistic mpg while towing) = 21.8 cents per mile

Gas @ 3.20/gal at 12 mpg (I'm basing that off of my past experience with gas motors and it may be generous) = 26.6 cents per mile

DEF at my Ford dealer runs 5.00/gal and my 5 gal tank will last 5k+ miles
DEF @ $5.00/ gal at 1000 mpg = 1/2 cent per mile

If the diesel engine is a $10,000 upgrade (not sure what the actual cost is) it would take 232,558 miles for fuel savings alone to offset the initial investment. If a person plans on keeping one that long then you could have the added power and fuel savings essentially for free.


Granted I am not taking into consideration other maintenance, insurance, and other costs of ownership. Diesel motors have a 100k mi factory warranty with the option to extend it to 200k. I'm not sure when gas warranty expires.

[Skater]

Originally Posted by colberjs

If the diesel engine is a $10,000 upgrade (not sure what the actual cost is) it would take 232,558 miles for fuel savings alone to offset the initial investment. If a person plans on keeping one that long then you could have the added power and fuel savings essentially for free.

That's a lot of miles, but definitely within the realm of possibility with today's engines, gas or diesel. It'd go down, I think, if we factored in non-towing miles as well (assuming the diesel is proportionally more efficient than gas, which it probably is).

Years ago, I was looking at a Mercedes Sprinter based Airstream - I was really just curious what they were like inside, and I knew I didn't have the money to buy one. The salesman was of course trying to get me to replace my B190 with it. His argument was that I'd save a bunch of money in fuel. I did the math, and I found I'd have to own it something like 200 years just to offset the cost of the new one, given my normal usage patterns.

Granted I am not taking into consideration other maintenance, insurance, and other costs of ownership. Diesel motors have a 100k mi factory warranty with the option to extend it to 200k. I'm not sure when gas warranty expires.

Yeah, our last oil change was pretty expensive ($130?), compared to the $30 I used to spend on the B190's 460 to change it myself...with synthetic (the $130 was for dinosaur oil). I have to get a drain pan large enough to hold 15 quarts or whatever it is. But the labor wasn't that expensive - it was the sheer quantity of oil, of course. I haven't done a fuel or air filter yet.

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by colberjs

May ask what make and model you drive? I have a 2011 F-250 with 6.7 diesel and:

1- I have had no problems with water in fuel as I try to fill up at places that see a high volume of diesel traffic as the fuel will be fresher and lest time for it to collect accumulations of water and trash.

2- I've had peoe comment on multiple occasions that they didn't even know my truck was running and thought it was a gas as I accelerated away.

3- Can't argue the price but efficiency is debatable.

4- Mine is definitely not slow off the line. There is minimal turbo lag compared to my '06 6.0 liter.

5- DEF is only about 20-25 to fill up every oil change. I've put 33k miles on mine and never had to add DEF except at regular scheduled oil changes. And the technology allows for better MPG's as stated earlier.

6- Here in Oklahoma approx. 80% of stations have diesel fuel. There is a diesel fuel finder iPhone app that is handy.

Ditto, my F-350 2011 is GREAT, I too live in Maryland near DC and NO troubles finding diesel locally.....

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by 65CV

Diesel rocks.

...expect 30% better mileage, on average, based on the amount of energy present in each gallon of fuel.

I wish !
Paper Number Theory vs Actual Field reality ... the newer diesel engines are hamstrung by environmental considerations.

But ... you gotta love the torque. Where my F150 gas was struggling / hunting for the right gear on mountain passes, the Ram diesel rarely even downshifts. Trailer behind ??? Where ? You wouldn't even notice.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by newroswell

On DEF,... This is all mandated by law and applies to all brands including the big rigs...

... The added power is a value item in the safety column (breaking away from a cluster of idiots in the mountains lowers the stress levels). Resell value is another. No Airstream needs a diesel truck, but sometimes the things you want to bring with it does.

Agreed ... except that the Ram does not require the use DEF fluid ... but there is the filter that periodically uses extra fuel to burn it "clean".

[newroswell]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Agreed ... except that the Ram does not require the use DEF fluid ... but there is the filter that periodically uses extra fuel to burn it "clean".

The 2013 models use a DEF system.

[colberjs]

Originally Posted by newroswell

The 2013 models use a DEF system.

I'm glad you posted this. I saw a tv ad for ram the other day that was aimed at Ford and GM saying "while they have to stop and fill up with DEF, you're still working". I knew they would have to have it eventually but wasn't sure when.