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Old 01-22-2021, 06:04 AM   #1
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Windsor Locks , Connecticut
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F 150 Hybrids showing up

I drove a F 150 Hybrid XL just for a short drive.
I am going back to spend more time with the hybrid, it literally just came off the truck in the morning and the sales rep had little input. No first impressions yet, to be continued.
At another dealership i test drove the standard 3.5 eco boost model XLT and found it was really a smooth, quiet ride. My wife was impressed.
I’m not partial to any of the big brands, I own a 2017 Canyon and it’s been a good truck, want a full size.
I defintely will get a extended warranty, vehicles are too complicated and a ten speed transmission I assume has more moving parts and electronics.
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Old 01-22-2021, 06:43 AM   #2
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Don’t know about the hybrid. But, just traded in our 2017 F-150 3.5 Eco 4x4 two weeks ago. They gave me a trade in price of more than half for a new 2020. Same model, same identical truck. They drove it out to the boonies where I live, I signed papers and they drove the old one back. Had a lot of incentives. Our trailers are pretty light, so never been a problem towing.
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Old 01-22-2021, 07:00 AM   #3
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Running the numbers, I can't see where towing with a hybrid can ever payout. Trailer braking robs so much of the regenerative capacity and durability has not been demonstrated. What am I missing?
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Old 01-22-2021, 07:35 AM   #4
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Running the numbers, I can't see where towing with a hybrid can ever payout. Trailer braking robs so much of the regenerative capacity and durability has not been demonstrated. What am I missing?
Exactly.
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Old 01-22-2021, 07:42 AM   #5
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Running the numbers, I can't see where towing with a hybrid can ever payout. Trailer braking robs so much of the regenerative capacity and durability has not been demonstrated. What am I missing?
Is it at least break-even when towing? I would think the only payback is when you're using the truck as a daily driver.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:02 AM   #6
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I can't get it to even 50% of break even before batteries must be replaced, so no, towing it is a significant net loss and that is without factoring in any change in repair cost for brakes, transmission, engine and motor due to additional towing loads.
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Old 01-22-2021, 08:53 AM   #7
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I can't get it to even 50% of break even before batteries must be replaced, so no, towing it is a significant net loss and that is without factoring in any change in repair cost for brakes, transmission, engine and motor due to additional towing loads.
I'm not surprised.

When the first generation Toyota Prius was introduced, we built a life cycle cost model. Cradle-to-grave, this vehicle was not a good financial investment, and we didn't think it made sense in a cradle-to-cradle analysis. Over time, Toyota improved the product and manufacturing processes and made it a great sustainable vehicle. I expect Ford to get better at this in subsequent iterations.
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Old 01-22-2021, 09:56 AM   #8
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I don't see how 6-9 year payouts plus mining heavy and toxic metals and minerals should be considered sustainable.....
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:17 AM   #9
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We drive/tow with a 3.5 ecoboost and it's been a great truck. My concern when it comes to "electric" F-150/Hummer whatever, is the range (350+- miles seams to be the average) Well, we mostly boondock. So we drive out in to the middle of nowhere and then plug the truck into what???? Run my Champion generator for how may hour to charge the truck???

I would love an "Electric" truck but I can honestly say that unless the range is increased to 700+ miles I just can't see how this will work. I am also concerned that towing will also reduce the range of travel. We are not the "Full Service Glamper" that travel from charger to charger. So the move to electric trucks for towing does not look like a practical solution in my life time.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:18 AM   #10
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I don't see how 6-9 year payouts plus mining heavy and toxic metals and minerals should be considered sustainable.....
And child labor.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:22 AM   #11
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And child labor.
The Greenie virtue signaling crowd has no problem with any of those inconvenient facts.
The end justifies the means.
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Old 01-22-2021, 10:54 AM   #12
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Steve - Purchase a new TV from a dealer that offers limited lifetime driveline warranty. Check the Limited Liability clause to ensure that it does not say “if recommended maintenance is not performed by the recommended interval, the LL Wty (will) be voided. You are looking for the word “may) be voided. The massive electronics on top models probably require and extended warranty as well. I just checked with a dealer near Melbourne, FL and he said they had one, but details were a 10 year/200,000 mile warranty on the driveline. That would probably work for me.
Enjoy the search and test drives and watch all the YouTube channels that review TV’s and their performance. Two that I watch are “TFL Trucks” and “Big Truck, Big RV”. These folks test TV’s all the time and provide all the new features as they change from model year to model year. Everyone is aware of the 2021 feature of a lay flat drivers seat. I just need to figure out how to position mirrors so I can see the road in that position driving across W Texas!
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:24 AM   #13
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When we saw all the electronic safety features on our "18 Ford the extended warranty was purchased without hesitation. Now that we purchased it the vehicle will probably run great.
Not sold on hybrids yet.
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:42 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbrick View Post
We drive/tow with a 3.5 ecoboost and it's been a great truck. My concern when it comes to "electric" F-150/Hummer whatever, is the range (350+- miles seams to be the average) Well, we mostly boondock. So we drive out in to the middle of nowhere and then plug the truck into what???? Run my Champion generator for how may hour to charge the truck???

I would love an "Electric" truck but I can honestly say that unless the range is increased to 700+ miles I just can't see how this will work. I am also concerned that towing will also reduce the range of travel. We are not the "Full Service Glamper" that travel from charger to charger. So the move to electric trucks for towing does not look like a practical solution in my life time.

We've looked into this ourselves with the Tesla. And it's actually way worse than that. You'll get 350+ miles empty. But pulling a trailer you will only get about 100-150 miles on a full charge. It would take a month to get anywhere like that. I've got great hopes for EV's but I don't think we're there yet.
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Old 01-22-2021, 11:52 AM   #15
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I don't see how 6-9 year payouts plus mining heavy and toxic metals and minerals should be considered sustainable.....
Indeed, that is the crux of the problem. You must assume 100% re-use of these environmentally-expensive metals and minerals, hence the cradle-to-cradle lifecycle analysis, to get into the sustainable regime.

We overcame a similar type of problem 40 years ago. There was not enough capacity to provide platinum, ruthenium, and other precious metals when various regulatory authorities wanted to mandate the use of catalytic converters on passenger vehicles. The US Dept. of Energy indirectly sponsored projects that eventually incentivized mining companies to ramp up their production. A decade later, it was possible. Today, most of these metals are collected and recycled which somewhat reduces the need for additional mining capacity.

In the current times, production capability is generally keeping up with demand for a lot of the bottleneck minerals/metals required for global battery production. Recycling technology, while very expensive, is also mature enough to re-use a lot of these products. The next frontier is figuring out how to re-use the various plastics and composites in modern vehicles. Simple recycling or reprocessing won't work. But this applies to all vehicles--be they IC, Battery, Hybrid, etc. There's not a lot of sustainability in any model that assumes personal ownership of transportation vehicles.
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:13 PM   #16
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Check out this video using the Tesla Model 3...a bit lengthy but Andy Thompson puts some of the concerns about mileage in perspective.

https://youtu.be/FX5lzqzZ2Do
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:18 PM   #17
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I don't see how 6-9 year payouts plus mining heavy and toxic metals and minerals should be considered sustainable.....

Electric vehicles are inevitable...Hydrocarbon fuel technology is not sustainable.
We will simply need to learn how to get better.
We will probably always need hydrocarbons from oil for the chemicals we use in everyday living, but over time we will need to transition to electric even if it is hybrid technology especially for heavy trucking
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:41 PM   #18
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Jay, so to say it nicely the word sustainable is not what it is supposed to mean. It's based on future promises that have never been achieved and never can be. Even in cited "success" examples where mining and resource depletion occurs unabated at rates higher than ever. The green utopia is just one lie after another, a big deception. Makes one wonder what the real objective is, because if I can see the lie, those who promote it can too.

Petroleum production keeps up with demand, does that make it sustainable too? There is no next frontier when the previous one is just swept under the rug and the meaning of words are changed to fit the narrative.

Here is the reality.

Hybrid vehicles don't payout unless you employ fuzzy math, and they make poor tow vehicles.

Electric vehicles are neither green nor sustainable. The additional power due to aerodynamic drag required to pull a trailer cuts range in half and always will at 65 mph plus.

Would love for someone to show me where I'm wrong and not with vague promises of future solutions. At some point we humans need to accept that we are net consumers not producers.
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:48 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=jaybauman;2452557]Indeed, that is the crux of the problem. You must assume 100% re-use of these environmentally-expensive metals and minerals, hence the cradle-to-cradle lifecycle analysis, to get into the sustainable regime. /QUOTE]

Riddle me this. How are you going to recharge an EV truck w/trailer on the road or boondocking? I am no EV expert by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems to me to be practical for traveling any significant distance the vehicle either must fully recharge while on the move and/or have the capacity to recharge stationary in a manor of minutes like a gas station. In addition, these recharging stations will have to be independent of local electric power company, otherwise it will add a huge additional demand, especially at night, on a already overloaded electrical distribution system. Solar and Wind are intermittent sources, but are not counted toward system wide total capacity as they are not available 24 hours/day. I'd have to check, but I don't think our electric utility has increased its capacity for years, but the demand has sky rocketed. So....me thinks it's a good idea whose time has not yet come.
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Old 01-22-2021, 12:54 PM   #20
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I think I will keep loving my Duramax
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