Downsizing Airstreams and need advice

[TravelingJim]

We are between Airstreams at the moment. We recently sold our 30' International and are looking for a used 22' or 23', a major downsize.


Two questions:
1. The 22 foot models only have one axle while the 23's have two. Obviously, two axles provide more security, but is it worth buying a 23' instead of a 22'?


2. I am downsizing from my Ford F-250 gasser. I'm looking at the Ford F-150 with the 2.7 liter gas engine, tow capacity of 7,700 pounds. Does anyone have experience with this setup?


Thanks for your input.

[Ndcctrucks]

1. Yes, the two-axle will provide added “security” in that, assuming 4 wheels of braking that work, your towing will be safer when stopping.

Additionally, the weight will be spread over four tires and bearings, decreasing stress and wear.

2. Nope

[LewisC]

Good morning, I tow a 2023 19CB Caravel with a 2023 F150 Tremor eccoboost with tow package and feel the combination performs very well. the truck pulls effortlessly and it feels very stable. I wouldn't hesitate to use this TV for our future AS a 23 international.

[Bubba L]

We tow our 22 footers with an F150 4x4 without issue. Our trailers are vintage so the weights are about 3300 lbs each. We have single axles but I keep a close eye on the tires. We have a TPMS that we use to monitor while traveling. I would probably feel more at ease with double axles but we installed new singles when we renovated so I know they’re in good shape.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by TravelingJim

We are between Airstreams at the moment. We recently sold our 30' International and are looking for a used 22' or 23', a major downsize.


Two questions:
1. The 22 foot models only have one axle while the 23's have two. Obviously, two axles provide more security, but is it worth buying a 23' instead of a 22'?


2. I am downsizing from my Ford F-250 gasser. I'm looking at the Ford F-150 with the 2.7 liter gas engine, tow capacity of 7,700 pounds. Does anyone have experience with this setup?


Thanks for your input.

Chas Lindbergh would likely reply “The Two Axles will DOUBLE your chance of a tire failure.”

That other tire/wheel/axle is grossly over-loaded the instant one of the wheels on the other axle fails.

The 22’ AS has a 5200 lb axle…much higher ratio of excess capacity than many double axle trailers. I’ve towed ours 60K miles with no blow-outs, fender/wheel-well damage, or having been stranded anywhere.

I”m not suggesting that trailers with multiple axles don’t Need them…. I’m just pointing out that double axles…when they fail… have a higher incidence of heavy damage immediately-following.

Regardless, a single axle is less expensive to inspect and maintain….and is more likely therefore to be properly maintained, IMO.

[AirstreaRob]

I have a 23’ Safari dual axel in excellent condition that I’m considering selling.

[dmartinez]

If you are buying a newer International 23FB model they offer one with a booth seating area in the middle and rear bathroom I really like this floor plan. I would avoid 22ft single axle for obvious reasons if possible. Not to mention you maybe compromising your storage and interior space. I have 25FB international and down sized from 30ft 5th wheel which had a lot of storage. I would also recommend purchasing camper shell for additional storage if you are planning long trips.

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Boxite

Chas Lindbergh would likely reply “The Two Axles will DOUBLE your chance of a tire failure.”

I believe that is an underestimation, all the flat tires my family has had on trailers with more then 1 axle were not on the front axle (1 was on center axle of 3). Seems like often the front tire kicks up something that causes a flat on the following tire.

Also part of the reason it can be much worse is that it can be harder to tell you have a flat with a tandem axle trailer (if you don't have TPMS) giving less chance of stopping before a slow leak/flat becomes a catastrophic failure.

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by Boxite

Chas Lindbergh would likely reply “The Two Axles will DOUBLE your chance of a tire failure.”

That other tire/wheel/axle is grossly over-loaded the instant one of the wheels on the other axle fails.

The 22’ AS has a 5200 lb axle…much higher ratio of excess capacity than many double axle trailers. I’ve towed ours 60K miles with no blow-outs, fender/wheel-well damage, or having been stranded anywhere.

I”m not suggesting that trailers with multiple axles don’t Need them…. I’m just pointing out that double axles…when they fail… have a higher incidence of heavy damage immediately-following.

Regardless, a single axle is less expensive to inspect and maintain, ….and is more likely therefore to be properly maintained, IMO.

I don't follow your math. While you double your chances of a tire failure you reduce the impact by half or more.


When you lose a tire on a single axle trailer you lose 1/2 of your carrying capacity, and must change it wherever you are. When you lose a tire on a double axle you only lose 1/4 and you can limp to a better place to change it. When you lose a bearing on a single axle trailer you are stuck. When you lose a bearing on a double axle trailer you can pull the tire and limp to help.

[Ndcctrucks]

What “Al and Missy” said….

[hairyclive]

Originally Posted by TravelingJim

We are between Airstreams at the moment. We recently sold our 30' International and are looking for a used 22' or 23', a major downsize.

Two questions:
1. The 22 foot models only have one axle while the 23's have two.
2. I am downsizing from my Ford F-250 gasser. I'm looking at the Ford F-150 with the 2.7 liter gas engine

4 tires on the road = smoother ride, better stability, more braking power (if all have brakes) better safety if you get a flat (not having to stop where you are to change the tire is a bonus), less sinkage on soft campsites.

For TV whatever will do the job with about a 10% safety factor will be fine. Lighter combo means less fuel consumed, less sinkage on softer campsites, and slightly better maneuverability.

[switz]

We have a heavily modified 2015 23D that scales 6,069 ponds on new 3,600 pound axles with dual puck 12” disc brakes, 3” lift plates, 6 lug 15” wheels and 15” Michelin tires. Upgraded from an old Hensley Arrow to a new ProPride hitch. Tongue weight is about 906 pounds.

Initially towed with my 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI turbo diesel. At 207,000 miles, a $3,500 repetitive problem reoccurred (every 75,000 miles) so it was retired and replaced with a new 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser with the 5.7L V8 and 8 speed transmission.

The LC gets 21 mpg on the highway at cruise and about 12 to 14 mpg towing the 23D.

Have 500 watts of 100 watt solar panels on the roof and a 315 amp hour lithium battery, Truma instant on water heater and Vitrifrigo marine refrigerator with freon compressor.

[L.D.Clara]

We downsized several years ago from a 1968 30’ International to a 2015 Flying Cloud 20’ FB. Last fall we upgraded again somewhat to a 2020 Globetrotter 23 FB.

The reasoning was this; the 30’ was too big for the two of us, the 20’ was great, and a nice floor plan, but the issue we had was there wasn’t access to both sides of the bed. Every time someone on the inside needs to get out of bed they have to climb over the other person. You may think you’re being stealthy about this, but trust me, you’re not. Access was a bigger issue for us than the size of the bed.
This was the main driver for the 23.. I believe in the 22 you still have access to only one side of the bed. Don’t get me wrong, the 23 doesn’t give you standing walk around access to the other side, but stooped over you can work your way around. This is a compromise we’re willing to make because going up to a 25 is marginal for our truck (2016 F150 3.5 EcoBoost).

At the time we changed to the 20’ I wondered about the single vs double axle too. I think ultimately it’s a wash either way, both have advantages and disadvantages. We have never had a week/axle related issue on any of our trailers, which may speak to the frequency of these issues in the first place.
Either way, keeping up on your maintenance will help..
I figure that if a wheel has an issue on a single axle, you’re going to notice it right away, where with a double you might not notice so quickly and perhaps this explains greater damage done in issues occurring in multiple axle set ups that was mentioned earlier.
It’s also true that with a single axle you halve the chance of failures and maintenance costs (ever notice how aircraft are moving away from four engine set ups).
That said you’ll notice potholes and the like more with a single axle as the whole side of the trailer falls into it where a double bridges it somewhat. It is noticeable.

Not too sure about the F150 with the 2.7 EcoBoost, since ours is the 3.5, but handling wise it’s been fine (ours is the longer wheelbase). I love the torque that the EcoBoost delivers which results in less downshifting than our old Silverado with the 5.3 V8. Again, this is the 3.5, but the numbers will tell you how much difference there is between a 3.5.and a 2.7..
I do notice the 23 Globetrotter behind the truck a bit more than the 20’ Flying Cloud..
I should also note that I found the brakes on the 20’ and the 23’ felt weaker that the 30’ with the Chevy. Turns out there is a menu option on the truck that allows you to set how aggressive you want the brakes to be (in addition to the usual gain setting).
The 30’ did get updated 12” drums when I got new axles, so not really a fair comparison…


Apologies if this post turned out to be a “stream of consciousness”, but I hope it helps..

Robin.

[ant guy]

I have had 4 rigs - horses, Airstream (23'), construction. Love double axel - why - I have had several blowouts on our back roads or coming home from a rodeo and never had a issue with stopping, putting the unit up on a roll on block and changing the tires. Easy, easy and no jacks of burned up tire. After 25 years of this I can recommend with no hesitation.

[Boxite]

The comments about continuing to tow with a multiple axle trailer after a tire failure…. is problematic for the reason posted by the comment posted above…” “We have a heavily modified 2015 23D that scales 6,069 ponds on new 3,600 pound axles …”
…the remaining axle is insufficiently-rated to carry the load and addti’l damage is likely. This is indicative of an under-engineered trailer that AS skimped-out on, IMO. That 6K lb 23D should have had two 7000# axles…not two under-rated 3600s if “redundancy” such as believed by some posters assume exists.

Anyway…I’m not trying to denigrate multiple axle trailers. I’m only supporting the fact that the single-axle 22’ Airstream has a more robust axle for it’s load than most multiple axle trailers.

Additionally…a tire failure on a single axle trailer is not a screeching-halt/stuck in the middle of the road situation as has been suggested. Continuing to a safe place to pull-over is just as simple as it is with your tow vehicle…you know it occurs immediately because it’s not masked by a second axle….. you slow down, and look for place to pull over. I’ve had no issues with our 22’ single axle in that regard. (I’ve had two tires that went bad…the trailer began to tow “squirrely”…. I slowed down and pulled over at the next safe spot. The trailer was completely under control. The failure was not due to an overloded axle either. It was road-hazard damage to the tire.)

[NeahBay]

TravelingJim,

1. Enough already said. I tow a Caravel 16…

2. I had a 2018 F150 2.7L eco, 2WD, Lariat. Power was fine, pulling fine, stopping okay, downhill engine braking lacking, payload capacity sucked (1286 lbs). Upgraded to a 2022 F150 5.0L v8, 4x4 sport Lariat. Big improvement in ride and problems solved, including 600 lbs more payload, lost 1-2 MPG towing.

Hope this helps
Bob

[Piggy Bank]

I have owned a 22 sport. Also a 25 and now a 27 Flying Cloud.
We enjoyed all trailers, but each has it's individuality.

I suggest you compare the "limiting factors" and "pain points" of each and make your decision based on that, in relation to your particular camping style.

1-Fresh/gray/black water capacity. With the 22 sport it required water frugality to do a weekend stay if you didn't have full hookups.

2-Storage and how exactly you get to it. The 22 sport had plenty of storage but I had to lay prostrate on the floor to get under the bed. The under dinette storage required you to have anyone seated get up and you had to take off the cushions. Both a pain.

3-Kitchen. Drawers, fridge size, counter space. Oven option, range hood.

4-depending on year-ducted AC?

5-Bathroom storage

6-where are the low point drains? On our 22 they were under the closet floor, and accessed from inside. Which prevented keeping permanently mounted stuff like drawer stacks in the closet.

7-climb over bed?

[Life is a Highway]

How about a B Van? If we sold our 30 FC we would be looking at one immediately or a gently loved one. I would pick the dual axle 23 for sure if I stayed with a trailer

Not my pick on a 2.7 ecoboost, 5.0 if you can get it in a 1/2 Ton with tow package, but that will be debated to death.

[Mullers]

If looking to downsize, the sport 22FB ( discontinued in 2019) is an interesting choice as it’s a true narrow body. 87” wide vs 96” for current caravel 22FB Makes it much lighter ( 300-400lb) than a current caravel/Bambi 22FB and easier to tow as visibility behind is much better due to its narrow width.

[Sophiehaus]

Originally Posted by TravelingJim

We are between Airstreams at the moment. We recently sold our 30' International and are looking for a used 22' or 23', a major downsize.


Two questions:
1. The 22 foot models only have one axle while the 23's have two. Obviously, two axles provide more security, but is it worth buying a 23' instead of a 22'?


2. I am downsizing from my Ford F-250 gasser. I'm looking at the Ford F-150 with the 2.7 liter gas engine, tow capacity of 7,700 pounds. Does anyone have experience with this setup?


Thanks for your input.

I’ve previously owned a 22 foot Bambi. Please go with the 23 foot trailer with the double axles, you will never regret it. The F150 2.7 should be fine with either size trailer.