Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 6.4 Hemi vs 6.7 Cummins

[Bajaexplorer]

Originally Posted by BAB

Update to Post 6 above. I have just come back from an 1,800 mile RT to the Northeast with my '14 RAM with the 6.7L Cummins. Of the 9,878 miles on the truck, 8,762 were pulling my trailer. My MPG avg on this 1,800 mile trip was 14.3. Also used just about 2 gal of DEF. Also, a fair amount of mountain travel in PA, VT, and NH. Very good workout for the exhaust braking system, which makes a huge difference in how often I am applying the truck discs and the trailer drums. Met a guy in one of the campgrounds who said, "you buy the truck for the Cummins -- it just happens to be wrapped up in a Ram." Hmmmm!

greetings, we have our first tow today with our new Ram 1500 Ecodiesel, we are towing a brand new 28 International signature, weight at the scale truck and trailer was 13120, we drove from Portland to Redding, about 420 miles, over the siskiyous? With an average over 55/65 when possible but in the low 50/40's behind big rigs when the the climb got tougher, we made it with an average of 16.9 mpg on paper, our EVIC got a reading of 17.4, burned around a gallon of DEF which btw is on sale at O 'Reilley @ 14dls per 2.5 gallons. truck handled great the trailer with plenty o juice left, but considering speed,safety, and tlc to your truck and trailer, we still have more power to pull if needed. I think once we get down the hills tomorrow to Sacramento we will be making an easy 17.5 to 18.5 at speeds of 60/65. There is no doubt. Anyway i will keep you pposted. Not to mention that empty we are getting over 28MPG over 75mph. Happy towing

[JFScheck]

Luv my EcoDiesel Grand Cherokee, great engine - can't wait to hear how it does towing your Airstream with your 1500.

The modern Diesel engine is one of the great automotive achievements of this decade!!!

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

The modern Diesel engine is one of the great automotive achievements of this decade!!!

Hats off to the Detroit diesel engineers!!!!!!!!!!!! - They deliver, despite each and every wrench the EPA morons have thrown in their works over the past 15 years.

[Skater]

Just finished our first tow with our new 2014 Ram 2500 with the 6.7L. It pulled the trailer extremely well, plenty of power on hills. Coming from a PSD 6.0L, we were impressed by how quiet the engine is, too. We can actually have a conversation outside the truck. (That old thread about diesel owners idling their engines definitely wasn't started with this engine in mind.) We got somewhere around 13.5 MPG over about 100 miles, but the engine still only has 250 miles on it, so it's nowhere near broken in yet.

Now we just need to get our hitch set up correctly. We lowered the ball but the trailer was still tongue high. Our driveway isn't level (it isn't even consistently sloped!), so we didn't get it set up correctly at home. We'll do some more adjustments before heading home.

[mefly2]

2012 CTD gave excellent results for us ...14-15 mpg pulling a 25 over mountainous terrain; the torque was great - rarely shifting down. That is... until the dealer did the computer update! Now getting 11-12 mpg and the transmission is shifting all of the time ...no better than the F150 triton (plus mucho $$$ for a diesel) that we traded in. There has been a front end recall in place for about 6 months ...still don't have the parts in for us. We rushed into buying the Ram in order to not have the DEF expense; now, with the de-tuned engine, we wish we'd have stayed Ford.

[Kline1966]

Hats off to the Detroit diesel engineers!!!!!!!!!!!! - They deliver, despite each and every wrench the EPA morons have thrown in their works over the past 15 years.

Actually, Detroit Diesel is only around in name. Daimler bought them a while back and all the Detroit engines are Mercedes engines now...

I would not give up the quiet smooth operation of the diesel. I love how my 2011 Ram pulls. My last truck was a 2500HD GM gasser with the 6.0L, and it was a nice truck, but anytime you had a trailer on it, I felt like I was killing it, and the fuel economy was horrible.

Just as others have said, there are many companies that make programmers to remove some of the components that harm reliability and fuel economy. This is a decent relatively low cost alternative that will improve fuel economy!

[Skater]

Originally Posted by Skater

We got somewhere around 13.5 MPG over about 100 miles, but the engine still only has 250 miles on it, so it's nowhere near broken in yet.

Correction - 12.6 MPG. I was remembering the wrong mileage display (overall instead of this trip).

[kry226]

There are lots of options discussed here. However, not every aspect has been explored. And in full disclosure, I am a Cummins guy through and through.

I'm not a nanny, but it bears mentioning that altering diesel exhaust systems is illegal, and thus far, nearly impossible on the 2013+ Cummins. Folks exploring these options should really think about certain consequences of the alterations, to include warranty revocation and emissions inspections.

Secondly, the Cummins option in a new truck is around an $8,000 premium. If you do not tow everyday, and also use your truck as a daily driver, to include lots of short stop-and-go trips, the Hemi may be a better option. You can buy a lot of fuel for $8,000!

Thirdly, MPG is not, in and of itself, is not the only fuel consideration. One must take into account that gasoline in most parts of the country, is A LOT cheaper than diesel. I've been watching the 6.4 Hemi discussions on the forums and some are reporting 10-11 mpg (hand calc) with 4.10 gears while towing a 12k fiver. I get that towing my 30 Classic with my 04 Cummins!

Fourth, what about maintenance? Fuel filter changes for the new diesels are not cheap propositions. Nor are oil changes: 3 gallons of oil versus 7 quarts. The diesel probably has a longer OCI, but still, the gas wins out in that respect.

Fifth, no DEF in the gas truck.

Sixth, the above comment about today's new diesels being in 1975 is absolutely correct. CELs are often the norm now, and the emissions systems are very sophisticated and EXPENSIVE to repair/replace. They do not have an infinite lifespan. Sooner or later, you will have to replace the DPF to the tune of an ugly penny.

Seventh, those of us who have driven diesels in cold climates understand exactly why the engines come from the factory with a block heater. Gas warms up quickly. Nuff said.

I love my truck. The 5.9 just keeps pulling, and pulling, and pulling. But I know that after 10 years, I'm probably on borrowed time. It's also my DD, and when it's time to replace the truck, I'll have a hard time picking a new Cummins over the 6.4 Hemi. YMMV!

[Thiss]

I toy with a first gen CTD. I am looking into a 4th Gen just so I can get a better trans, air conditioning, and airbags with better crash safety features.

Come on over to the friendly forums of dieseltruckresource.com for some help with your fuel mod needs.

I have never got a load of bad diesel, but then again we burn a lot of it here in the west and it never sits log in the tank. When pumping diesel shy off of the big nozel. Big nozel pumps are for big rigs with better fuel filters, and this the service stations have fewer filters. The bigger fuel flow also stirs sediments up in the tank more.

Given the cost of the diesel upgrade, I too pondered a Hemi, but then I thought about all the mountain passes I want to cross.

[switz]

When we upgraded the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins fuel tank with a 54 gallon under bed Titan fuel tank that reused the stock fuel pump, we added a Cummins branded water separator beside the tank. The fuel line continued to the stock filter/water separator on the side of the engine and then to a Cummins branded two micron fuel filter before going to the full rail.

For additional engine and transmission longevity, we added FS2500 filters for both the engine oil and transmission fluid. We also increased the size of the differential covers to hold more oil. The cooling fins on the new covers help dispel the heat. Both differential covers and the transmission pan were also modified for a temperature probe along with one in the exhaust manifold for the EGT sensor. The Insight Edge monitor displays EGT, inches of boost, fuel rail pressure, along with transmission oil and rear differential oil temperatures.

This system allows me to monitor all the critical temperatures as they rise during long mountain climbs.

[RickDavis]

I have close to a million miles with various diesels I have owned.
I agree with the previous poster in that i have NEVER had a bad batch of diesel fuel and never found more than a drop or 2 of water in the filter canister at filter change time.

On the other hand I prefer to fill at the "big nozzle" pumps because the fuel flow at the car/RV pumps is frustratingly slow when pumping 60 or 70 gallons of fuel.

It should be noted that the 2013 and up CTD has 2 fuel filters, One on the frame which also serves as a water seperator and an even finer one at the engine.

They are expensive, about $100.00 for the pair for the Mopar filters from a discount source but they do the job. at the 15000 mile change interval the front filter is hard to distinguish from a new one.

A word of caution, If the dealer is changing the filter you will likely only get the front one as the rear seems to be designated as a "water seperator"

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by Thiss

When pumping diesel shy off of the big nozel. Big nozel pumps are for big rigs with better fuel filters, and this the service stations have fewer filters. The bigger fuel flow also stirs sediments up in the tank more.

I have to disagree with this statement. Back in the late 90's I worked as a project manager building Speedway truckstops and convenience stores. The only difference between the big truck islands and the car island is the size of the submersible pump at the underground storage tank.
The small islands get a 1 or 2 hp submersible pump while the tank for the big nozzle gets a 5 hp submersible pump. All gets filtered. Corporate fuel stations typically have a maintenance schedule for changing out filters.

[GCinSC2]

I've filled my VW Bug TDI at the same truck island for over 2 yrs. no filter issues. I drain the old filter to inspect and virtually no crud.

[Thiss]

Sorry but just because one thing was true for one supplier almost 3 decades ago, doesn't mean it is true today.

Here is a quote from CRC September 2014 Report on Diesel Storage and Handling:

"Many types of filters exist for removing contaminants from diesel fuel. Typically, diesel fuel is not filtered until it gets to the point of delivery to the end user, though some refiners and/or distributors may filter fuel upstream of the end user. Almost all service station diesel fuel is filtered today. Historically, the standard micron porosity rating for diesel dispenser filters has been 30 microns (nominal) rating. Studies have shown21, 23 that the use of such coarse filters does little to clean up diesel fuel. They are merely protection to catch bigger pieces of debris, such as coarser rust particles or sand.
In recent years, many retailers have moved to 10-micron porosity filters. Most high flow dispensers, such as those used at truck stops, still use 30-micron porosity filters due to flow rate concerns. As of 2014, NCWM is considering a filtration recommendation of nominal 10-micron porosity filters for passenger car and light duty diesel dispensers at service stations"

I am sorry to be arguementitive. Nevertheless, having all of the info to keep your diesel truck investment in top running order is paramount. So maybe the big nozel is filtered to the 10 micron level at one particular station, why chance it that it is not?

Also, one other consideration. If the service station is getting a fuel delivery, then pass on by. When holding tanks are being filled sediments on the bottom (water and iron) are mixed up and have a likelier chance of finding their way to the nozel. Also, the higher flow pumps of the big nozel will have the same effects.

For a Diesel engine, cleanliness is godliness. Do everything possible to keep it clean. i think I will go change my fuel filter now just cause.

[Thiss]

Full report here:

http://www.crcao.org/reports/recents.../CRC%20667.pdf

[KJRitchie]

Don't fuel tanks pump from the bottom of the tanks? Isn't the fuel run through filtration before reaching the pumps? I'm a new diesel owner, 2015 Ram 2500, and have seen members mentioning to only refuel at stations that heavy turnover.

Kelvin

[Ultradog]

Diesels stink.
The fuel stinks and the exhaust stinks.
And they're Noisy.
A gasser is far more pleasant to run. And to get all the longevity out of a diesel to make the original purchase price work out you have to run them like for 15 years. But who wants to drive a pickup that old?

[RickDavis]

After reading the info in the link in post 35 I am now scared to start the truck and leave the campground. ( not really)

So far I have not had any fuel related problems with the 2013 but am only at 27K. I have not seen much in the way of problems on the diesel forums either so I am inclined to think the factory filtration on the newer trucks is adequate.
The pictures I have seen of cut open filters would also lead one to believe the stuff is pretty decent coming from the nozzle.

The 99 truck in my signature with 577,000 miles on it still runs well and still has the original injectors. The original injection pump lasted 458,000.

I have never used additives in the fuel when the 99 was my primary truck so indications are the fuel must be pretty decent.

Now that truck is driven less I do use a biocide in it and also in my old backhoe but have never had a problem with algae.

While it never hurts to be cautious I think it reasonable to assume that the fuel suppliers are going to be pretty careful to put out a good product if for no other reasons than to avoid lawsuits as dead trucks line the side of the road

[eubank]

Folks, may I remind you of our BE NICE rule. We moderators take it very seriously, and you should, too.

Now BE NICE!!


Lynn

[Thiss]

Sorry to stir up sediment. I just came across this thread and thought I could provide some insights into how I have been able to keep my Cummins worry free for 25 years. It mad me sad that someone was concidering swapping a basically new Cummins because of fuel issues.

Also, I am not afraid to drink from the big nozzle. I just know I may have to hit the fuel water separator and I keep an extra filter just in case.

I agree that additives are not necessary. I do like them though to make the engine quieter since the fuel has less lubricity do to the ultra low sulphur process.

Lastly, beautiful smell is in the nose of the beholder. I love the smell of diesel.