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Old 04-04-2018, 08:42 PM   #1
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Dealer misrepresented service record

As many of you may know I purchased a 2016 GMC Denali 2500 Duramax as Certified pre owned with 7500 miles from a out of town dealer last July. I purchased the truck from a dealer 250 miles away and was provided a Clean CARFAX. The truck is awesome and I have had no trouble out of it. I noticed a few weeks ago while crawling around under the truck that the front skid plate “ plastic” was cracked at the bolt holes. So while at my local GMC dealer today getting the oil changed I ask the service tech to look at the skid plate.
Later the Service Manager pull me from the waiting room and asked me was I aware that the truck has had a MAJOR fuel system failure (CP4 pump and injectors) replaced and ENGINE REMOVAL at 7229 miles. Like a $15000.00 repair. Info which was pulled from the GM Global system with the VIN number.
The CARFAX report states at 7229 miles the engine cooling hoses were checked.
The selling dealer owned the truck during this repair!
I said NO I was not aware! I was given a clean bill of health when I purchased.
Service manager stated that the skid plate was damaged due to over torqued bolts while reinstalling post repair.
This dealership stated that they would not service my truck and stated I needed to take it back to the selling dealership I purchased it from to rectify the problem.

Here’s my question. What if any recourse do I have with the selling dealer and should this information have been disclosed?
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:59 PM   #2
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So the engine was pulled and a major fuel system repair was done, probably under warranty. I'm not sure what the dealer's obligation is to report repairs to CarFax, or however CarFax finds out about these things. Maybe the dealer has a relationship with CarFax to provide reports for all used cars, and part of that agreement is to report all repairs.

I would think the selling and repairing dealer should replace the damaged part, if that is what you are asking. If you are asking if you should be compensated for them not disclosing the repair, the question I would have is, would that somehow diminish the value of the car? Have you been damaged in any way by this? In order for you to have some "recourse" I would think you would have to be able to show some damages, i.e. the car is worth less because of that repair.

Did you ask for a repair history before purchasing the car? If you did, then it seems that the dealer misrepresented the condition. If you didn't the laws of your state probably govern the dealer's obligations.

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Old 04-04-2018, 09:11 PM   #3
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Carfax has only information reported to its system. Repairs performed by a private party or otherwise not entered into “the system” won’t get reported. I am surprised that a repair that is in the dealer network doesn’t get reported to Carfax somehow. If you run a Carfax today does it show up clean? I think that if a dealer takes in a truck on trade with body damage and performs the repairs and puts the truck on their used lot, you will never see that reported to Carfax.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:15 PM   #4
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Thanks for reply.
Dealer put improper info on CARFAX by stating cooling hoses checked and nothing about “catastrophic fuel system failure with engine removal”. Reports words not mine.

Dealer also stated no major repairs. Or problems. It was sold a ‘CERTIFIED PRE OWNED”.

Only thing I’m out is local dealer will not service truck and I gotta drive 2.5 hrs one way to get it fixed and I’m sure my resale value is decreased.

I love the truck don’t get me wrong, but I would have liked to have been able to weigh the service record before purchasing.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wconley View Post
Carfax has only information reported to its system. Repairs performed by a private party or otherwise not entered into “the system” won’t get reported. I am surprised that a repair that is in the dealer network doesn’t get reported to Carfax somehow. If you run a Carfax today does it show up clean? I think that if a dealer takes in a truck on trade with body damage and performs the repairs and puts the truck on their used lot, you will never see that reported to Carfax.
Repair was put in CARFAX ... as them checking the cooling hoses.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:20 PM   #6
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Here is pics of CARFAX and Dealer service log
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:44 PM   #7
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First - It's a CPO. Don't they have special extended waranty status? Seems like you need to escalate to the regional rep. It's a GM problem, not yours. If the regional rep turns up dry, you might move up the chain of authority within GM. The local dealer is justified in not wanting to have to clean up the problem, so get GM Corporate involved to give them coverage. The dealer that you purchase from is not dealing honestly or there are some extenuating circumstances that GM needs to resolve.

Disclaimer - I know nothing about GMs warranty system. They are not on my happy list over a Saturn engine issue, but they are a company that usually treats customers right. It just seems to take a firm, but polite, discussion with the right person to get their attention. Suggest you contact dznf0g by PM and see if I've got it all wrong. Good Luck with your repair. I know you like that truck. Pat
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
Thanks for reply.
Dealer put improper info on CARFAX by stating cooling hoses checked and nothing about “catastrophic fuel system failure with engine removal”. Reports words not mine.

Dealer also stated no major repairs. Or problems. It was sold a ‘CERTIFIED PRE OWNED”.

Only thing I’m out is local dealer will not service truck and I gotta drive 2.5 hrs one way to get it fixed and I’m sure my resale value is decreased.

I love the truck don’t get me wrong, but I would have liked to have been able to weigh the service record before purchasing.
I was under the impression (from other manufacturers info) that CPO meant that the vehicle was certified to be in excellent condition and that fact was typically backed up by an extended warranty beyond the remaining new car warranty. It's not clear to me that CPO meant no major repairs had been done, as long as the repairs didn't diminish the value of the vehicle. Major body work would, I think, disqualify a vehicle from a CPO program, but maybe not major mechanical work.

But if you asked the dealer about repairs and he knowingly gave you a Carfax that did not list repairs that he knew had been done, that would seem to qualify as at least unethical, if not illegal.

Al
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:46 AM   #9
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CPO is just a marketing term. It may include an extra warranty, and it usually includes a dealer “inspection”, but it doesn’t mean that the car/truck hasn’t gone through some major repair.

Carfax is NOT a good source of info. It’s dependent on service reporting, and most places I’ve run into don’t or won’t report. I had a body shop come right out and tell me that they won’t report my major deer strike repairs to Carfax. He said he reports nothing to Carfax, and that he didn’t know a shop that did. Sadly, Carfax reporting is so full of holes, but clean reports are presented as the true and complete record to support the sale. Your dealer knew what he was doing.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced this, but it’s a good lesson for everyone else. Caveat emptor. Others have given you good advice regarding warranty repair of your damaged parts. I would definitely engage the GM regional. Make copies so you can leave a set with them, and threaten to launch a social campaign with your documents in online reviews and posts to show how this dealer lies.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:00 AM   #10
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The best thing to do is to focus on how much you love your new truck and forget about the fact that it was repaired. And then call the dealer and nicely ask them send you a new piece of plastic. If they refuse, so be it. What is the cost of the anguish you have suffered compared to a piece of plastic?

Here’s a reference to help you decide.

https://www.gmoutletparts.com/oem-pa...OC1kaWVzZWw%3D
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:06 AM   #11
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CPO, certified pre-owned vehicle. Who certifies it? With what perimeters is it certified? Snake oil if you ask me. CPO is just that, a used car, just like any other used car out there; the difference being, is that you paid more for it because it had three letters. Never believe a dealerships CPO assertions that it is somehow a better used car.

That motor was flogged to death by a salesman/owner and his drunk friends, or run on bad gas for a long time, fixed and then sold to you as a used car. It is your responsibility to do due diligence and ask the right questions to the right people. Always go to another dealership with the VIN of the vehicle you want to purchase and ask them the service advisor to give you a print out of the service history........then take it to your own mechanic.

I think you have a truck, but that will be as far as this goes.

Always ask yourself......why did they trade/sell this vehicle.....what is wrong with it?

Cheers
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:43 AM   #12
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My understanding of CPO (and I've bought a few) is that it was inspected, repaired as necessary and warranted for an extended period. There is the implication that they are the cream puffs of the used cars, but that's hype.

The fudging of records is a separate issue. Bringing it up with the selling dealer might get you a new skid plate, if that's worth a 500 mile drive. Putting fender washers on the bolts where the plastic is cracked might be easier.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:50 AM   #13
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I almost bought a used Airstream Interstate many years ago, and insisted that the dealer send me the service record by email. Glad I did as there were major problems which had been repaired. The dealer had balked at sending them at first. Sometimes you have to be "pushy" [at least in the eyes of others].

Here the resolution will depend on the dealer's exact words during negotiations. Sometimes silence can be pregnant, but not legally actionable.



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Old 04-05-2018, 06:55 AM   #14
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So, lessons learned?

I am in the market for this exact vehicle, either GMC or Chevy. Do I ask for the vehicle service history from the VIN number? Before the sale, do I take it to a GMC/Chevy dealership for a lookover?

How does a potential buyer protect themselves?
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron2010 View Post
So, lessons learned?

I am in the market for this exact vehicle, either GMC or Chevy. Do I ask for the vehicle service history from the VIN number? Before the sale, do I take it to a GMC/Chevy dealership for a lookover?

How does a potential buyer protect themselves?
I am working with the dealer today. I’ll update this as I have information
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Old 04-05-2018, 10:17 AM   #16
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From a legal perspective, so far, the only damages that appear clear and certain are the cost of parts and labor to replace the front skid plate, for which the selling dealer is liable.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:06 AM   #17
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Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I learn something valuable at least once a week from this forum.... and this is very valuable.

I will definitely NEVER buy another used vehicle without having a service history run, and I won't worry about wasting money having body work performed because "carfax will know" and even if it is perfectly done it will still lower my trade-in.
That would cost double - pay $900 for repairs AND lose that much again on thw trade-in.

Well, off to get the bumper repainted and repimp my ride.

I generally like tp make people happy, and I am not seriously considering a new tow vehicle unless I win a lottery... but making a car dealer sales staff sweat bullets? YES I could do that without an iota of remorse.

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Old 04-05-2018, 11:12 AM   #18
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Yes, thanks so much for the reminder to visit the service dept of a dealer for the brand of whatever "gently used" tow vehicle I am considering, VIN in hand, to ask them for a service history - this certainly won't catch everything, but it could be a valuable addition to any CarFax report.
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:18 AM   #19
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Generally CPO is performed to "specifications set by the manufacturer" and the CPO warranty is from the manufacturer, not from a dealer. There are used car lots that do their own "warranty", but this sounds like it was a GM dealer and thus should have been GM certified. http://www.gmcertified.com/certified-benefits

If this was glossed over and missed by the selling dealer, that is too bad for them and GM...however the purchaser has no control over it, GM is liable to pay for the repairs and it is up to them to flush that out with the selling dealer. You as the customer shouldn't be required to do anything other than make some phone calls to GM.

I have no experience with GM, and I doubt I ever will...however I have experience with BMW & Audi and when you encounter issues with a dealer you can call the corporate offices to get them to resolve a lot of issues. Of course the agony of the dealer is exactly why I'll probably never own another BMW in my life, as their treatment of customers and lack of interest in solving problems they create detracts from the quality of the vehicle...and my Audi dealership has been phenomenal and insisted on Audi cover things under warranty that may not have directly followed the manufacturer guidance for corrective action (e.g. instead of requiring multiple trips to try various fixes on a rattling panoramic sunroof, the dealer argued with Audi to get them to pay for just replacing the entire thing).

What I find amazing is that there is some brand loyalty thing going on here where some are so quick to blame the OP for failing to do something in this purchasing process. The entire point of manufacturer CPO is to reduce the risk of buying a used car, and to help preserve resell values. Our Audi was CPO and owned by the dealer, it had 5k miles on it when we bought it.
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Old 04-05-2018, 12:30 PM   #20
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cp4 pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
As many of you may know I purchased a 2016 GMC Denali 2500 Duramax as Certified pre owned with 7500 miles from a out of town dealer last July. I purchased the truck from a dealer 250 miles away and was provided a Clean CARFAX. The truck is awesome and I have had no trouble out of it. I noticed a few weeks ago while crawling around under the truck that the front skid plate “ plastic” was cracked at the bolt holes. So while at my local GMC dealer today getting the oil changed I ask the service tech to look at the skid plate.
Later the Service Manager pull me from the waiting room and asked me was I aware that the truck has had a MAJOR fuel system failure (CP4 pump and injectors) replaced and ENGINE REMOVAL at 7229 miles. Like a $15000.00 repair. Info which was pulled from the GM Global system with the VIN number.
The CARFAX report states at 7229 miles the engine cooling hoses were checked.
The selling dealer owned the truck during this repair!
I said NO I was not aware! I was given a clean bill of health when I purchased.
Service manager stated that the skid plate was damaged due to over torqued bolts while reinstalling post repair.
This dealership stated that they would not service my truck and stated I needed to take it back to the selling dealership I purchased it from to rectify the problem.

Here’s my question. What if any recourse do I have with the selling dealer and should this information have been disclosed?
Sorry I can't answer your specific question on 'recourse'.
Do a Google search on the cp4 pump to see what you are up against. Evidently, this is a 'weak' link in the Duramax fuel system and there are some after market helps for peace of mind. I would try to get a GM extended warranty. Others may have some good suggestions on how to do that. There are an awful lot of those engines out there doing a wonderful job. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you get the extended warranty your local dealer shouldn't have a problem with doing service, oil changes and etc. May be trying to punish you for not buying local?
Tony. A Duramax is a diesel and doesn't use gas. Gas would absolutely destroy any diesel engine. Hard driving/use would not harm the pump and fuel system. Unlike a gas engine diesels were made to work long and hard. We run our big trucks a million miles or more.
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