Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-27-2016, 10:22 AM   #41
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 23' Flying Cloud
Livermore , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 373
Well, we have put our search on hold for a while. Now we have thrown the 2017 Audi Q7 into the mix. Have not seen much towing feedback on those.
__________________

cactusjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 10:31 AM   #42
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactusjk View Post
Well, we have put our search on hold for a while. Now we have thrown the 2017 Audi Q7 into the mix. Have not seen much towing feedback on those.
The Q7 is great too, if you need the 3rd row seating capacity &/or rear cargo space with that row down. Look here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...rs-134917.html

PM or email the Q7 owners posting on there for specific questions, & post your own question there too.

You'll lose 500-1000 lbs of towing capacity from the Cayenne/Tauoreg rated 7719# due to the extra vehicle wt. from the Q7 being 12-14" longer & the 3rd row seat, but still quite respectable in the high 6000's. Just make sure to check all of the actual gross trailer & TV total, per axle & hitch wts. to be within the Q7's spec'd capacities.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
__________________

__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 10:43 AM   #43
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
2017 Audi Q7 apparently has a bumped up tow rating of 7700#. I am not sure whether the use of WDH is allowed on the new Q7 or not. My personal preference is to stay away from brand new cars, and wait for a couple of years for the glitches to be fixed.
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 11:06 AM   #44
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
2017 Audi Q7 apparently has a bumped up tow rating of 7700#. I am not sure whether the use of WDH is allowed on the new Q7 or not. My personal preference is to stay away from brand new cars, and wait for a couple of years for the glitches to be fixed.
The 2016/17 Cayenne/Tauoreg/Audi Q7 is more of a mid-cycle model refresh, than a new model - but I agree with that theory for new models & cars.

I wasn't aware that they'd bumped the newer Q7 back up to 7700#, as the other mid-2000's Q7s that we'd looked at were at 6800-7200-ish if I recall. To be clear, we went towards Cayenne cuz we don't need the the extra seats & prefer the shorter length for our driveway & street situation & our driving preferences - not due to losing a small amount of towing capacity.

As for WD....

WD is illegal in Europe since the 1970s - ergo they won't rate them as such for Euro/some-RoW production. Therefore, the Euro trailers are generally built much lighter wt. than their USA/NA counterparts - including Airstream. IMHO it's shortsighted & plain stupid rules for Europe!

However, VW/Audi/Porsche do have WD ratings for the T/C/Q7 in at least some of the years for USA/NA cars, but they make it very hard to find the WD/non-WD numbers by burying them in the dealers shop manuals & other odd places, & most dealers are too lazy to look them up & just say no - incorrectly. WD can be used on any of the 3, & apparently they don't bother to change the owners manual from the Euro "no WD" version on some/all of their model years/SUVs.

Again, unnecessary confusion & stupidity on the part of the mfgrs. trying to comply with their home Euro market - which is generally smaller than their equal or greater sales in North America where WD is allowed. If pressed, they'll say that WD is not disallowed at least, if not that it is allowed - because they don't want to lose those sales in USA/NA, where it is actually a safety factor when towing, causing less - not more strain on the vehicles drivetrains, brakes, suspension, etc.

That said, I'd contact Andy T. at CanAm up in Ontario Canada for input on what reinforcement should be done to the hitch/reciever on ANY & ALL of the Euro & USA Big 3 mid-sized SUVs & smaller car/SUV/CUV TVs, based on what trailer you'll be towing - including Q7/Treg/Cay. He can advise what to do for those too far away to take it into their shop, for a local shop to do it.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 11:41 AM   #45
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
The 2016/17 Cayenne/Tauoreg/Audi Q7 is more of a mid-cycle model refresh, than a new model - but I agree with that theory for new models & cars.

I wasn't aware that they'd bumped the newer Q7 back up to 7700#, as the other mid-2000's Q7s that we'd looked at were at 6800-7200-ish if I recall. To be clear, we went towards Cayenne cuz we don't need the the extra seats & prefer the shorter length for our driveway & street situation & our driving preferences - not due to losing a small amount of towing capacity.

As for WD....

WD is illegal in Europe since the 1970s - ergo they won't rate them as such for Euro/some-RoW production. Therefore, the Euro trailers are generally built much lighter wt. than their USA/NA counterparts - including Airstream. IMHO it's shortsighted & plain stupid rules for Europe!

However, VW/Audi/Porsche do have WD ratings for the T/C/Q7 in at least some of the years for USA/NA cars, but they make it very hard to find the WD/non-WD numbers by burying them in the dealers shop manuals & other odd places, & most dealers are too lazy to look them up & just say no - incorrectly. WD can be used on any of the 3, & apparently they don't bother to change the owners manual from the Euro "no WD" version on some/all of their model years/SUVs.

Again, unnecessary confusion & stupidity on the part of the mfgrs. trying to comply with their home Euro market - which is generally smaller than their equal or greater sales in North America where WD is allowed. If pressed, they'll say that WD is not disallowed at least, if not that it is allowed - because they don't want to lose those sales in USA/NA, where it is actually a safety factor when towing, causing less - not more strain on the vehicles drivetrains, brakes, suspension, etc.

That said, I'd contact Andy T. at CanAm up in Ontario Canada for input on what reinforcement should be done to the hitch/reciever on ANY & ALL of the Euro & USA Big 3 mid-sized SUVs & smaller car/SUV/CUV TVs, based on what trailer you'll be towing - including Q7/Treg/Cay. He can advise what to do for those too far away to take it into their shop, for a local shop to do it.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
2017 Q7 is a brand new car -- its not a mid cycle refresh.

As for WDH on Touareg/Q7/Cayenne: I believe they used to be explicitly supported. A few years back, VW advised against using them. What I read in a car forum (for what its worth) was that VW saw signs of fatigue where the hitch is attached to the unibody, and advised against using WDHs.
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 12:45 PM   #46
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
2017 Q7 is a brand new car -- its not a mid cycle refresh.

As for WDH on Touareg/Q7/Cayenne: I believe they used to be explicitly supported. A few years back, VW advised against using them. What I read in a car forum (for what its worth) was that VW saw signs of fatigue where the hitch is attached to the unibody, and advised against using WDHs.
Interesting! Of course taking the WD option away rather than fixing the hitch/mounting point option seems to fall into VW's mentality - just like their TDI "smog fix" cheater program!

I think it's still in the Porsche Cayenne owners &/or factory/dealer service manual info. for WD hitch use/ratings (may be the same wt. with or without WD - or a lower than the 700 or 770 lbs. HW depending on MY without WD), & maybe on Audi Q7's too.

I thought the weakness was at the crossbar welds to the mounting plates, according to both the forums & Andy T./CanAm/Hitch Hints info., but then that just supports the reason to do the latter's hitch reinforcement. So apparently a couple of theories are running around out there.

I love my Hensley Cub, so I'll reinforce as Andy T./CanAm advises, whenever we finally get our Cayenne S TV.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 01:30 PM   #47
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 23' Flying Cloud
Livermore , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 373
Trying to get hitch reinforcement in the Bay Area is next to impossible!
cactusjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 02:42 PM   #48
Rivet Master
 
bono's Avatar
 
Mountain View , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 568
It is possible. I have done this on BMW X5

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1707559

Check Midnight Automotive in Redwood City. I had this address from another user of AS who had PC hitch reinforced.
bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 02:43 PM   #49
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactusjk View Post
Trying to get hitch reinforcement in the Bay Area is next to impossible!
Check at that link I put a couple of posts above for the Tauoreg/Cayenne/Q7 topic, as there was someone from the Bay Area who got it done locally, & they can refer you to the shop they used.

If it's not there, then PM or email me, & I'll look at my other saved T/C/Q7 topics to see which one has it.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 02:47 PM   #50
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
It is possible. I have done this on BMW X5

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1707559

Check Midnight Automotive in Redwood City. I had this address from another user of AS who had PC hitch reinforced.
Well there ya go! I'm pretty sure that Bono was the person I was recalling!

BTW - All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar & made by the same hitch mfgrs. - Westfalia, Oris & maybe one other - so the fix is the same or similar to his X5.

Thanx Bono for chiming in as I was typing!

Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-14 Cayenne S
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 03:20 PM   #51
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 23' Flying Cloud
Livermore , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 373
Great info! Many thanks!
cactusjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 03:22 PM   #52
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Well there ya go! I'm pretty sure that Bono was the person I was recalling!

BTW - All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar & made by the same hitch mfgrs. - Westfalia, Oris & maybe one other - so the fix is the same or similar to his X5.

Thanx Bono for chiming in as I was typing!

Tom
///////
Mercedes hitch is different in that the hitch is not just connected to the unibody with 8 bolts. On top of the 8 bolts, there are also 2 large support arms (each may be 2 ft long) that are bolted to the hitch, go into a recess in uni-body and get bolted to the unibody. Hence, The hitch unibody connection is very stout. Mercedes manual, unlike other German SUVs, does not ban the use of WDHs. In my opinion, this is due to this different design. I am attaching a photo of a GL hitch, where the support arms are highlighted.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2007_GL_hitch_2 - weldments.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	293.4 KB
ID:	256400  
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 05:41 PM   #53
PKI
Rivet Master
 
PKI's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Walnut Creek , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
-- snip -- All of the BMW, MBZ, VW/Audi/Porsche factory hitches are similar --- snip ---///////
Caution, the aftermarket hitches for the late model F15 BMW X5 are similar to what is used on other German SUVs, but the OEM hitch is not. It can not be installed with a Class III receiver and is only available with a 2 in ball.

Bono, thanks for your info. Is the trailer home?

Rostam - that is a nice hitch design. Gives Mercedes some extra points in the TV choice comparison.

Pat
PKI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 09:39 PM   #54
Rivet Master
 
bono's Avatar
 
Mountain View , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 568
Just to clarify, if you retrofit GL with OE hitch, are these 2 large support arms part of the hitch retrofit kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
Mercedes hitch is different in that the hitch is not just connected to the unibody with 8 bolts. On top of the 8 bolts, there are also 2 large support arms (each may be 2 ft long) that are bolted to the hitch, go into a recess in uni-body and get bolted to the unibody. Hence, The hitch unibody connection is very stout. Mercedes manual, unlike other German SUVs, does not ban the use of WDHs. In my opinion, this is due to this different design. I am attaching a photo of a GL hitch, where the support arms are highlighted.
bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2016, 09:44 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
bono's Avatar
 
Mountain View , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 568
Not yet. Will start camping around September when the newborn will be around 4 months old. Really can't wait to start towing the trailer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKI View Post
Bono, thanks for your info. Is the trailer home?
bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 06:29 AM   #56
Rivet Master
 
Vintage Kin Owner
N/A , N/A
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 995
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by bono View Post
Just to clarify, if you retrofit GL with OE hitch, are these 2 large support arms part of the hitch retrofit kit?
The 2 support arms are part of the OEM hitch kit. Note that buying/installing a hitch and the associated electronics could cost around $2k (if you are retrofitting it). The factory tow package option is a steal at $550.
rostam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 10:39 AM   #57
3 Rivet Member
 
2015 25' FB Flying Cloud
Sandy , Utah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 220
I wanted to clear up a few things. I work for Audi and tow a 25FB with a 2015 Q7 TDI. The 2017 Q7, which is a complete redesign top to bottom, has a label on the hitch listing 770 lbs weight carrying and 770 lbs weight distributing with a max trailer weight of 7700 lbs. I studied the hitch reinforcement issue closely but decided that route was not necessary for my 2015. After towing the 25FB all summer I removed the bumper cover on the 2015 and I and our Shop Foreman inspected every inch of the hitch. We even removed the hitch and inspected the bolts and mounting points. No evidence of stress or cracks was found. After talking with an Audi Engineer I believe that they purposely underrated the hitch on the 2015 (662 lbs/6600 lbs) and earlier models. Interestingly both hitches have the same part number!
rocco52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 11:13 AM   #58
4 Rivet Member
 
2015 23' Flying Cloud
Livermore , California
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 373
Great to hear. I question the need to "reinforce" the factory hitches if the TT is well within the hitch specs.

The Treg hitch specs have also gone up close to those of the 2017 Q7.
cactusjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 11:27 AM   #59
Rivet Master
 
bono's Avatar
 
Mountain View , California
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 568
Thanks for this clarification.

I am not an engineering, so can be ignorant in this topic. The fact that OE Mercedes hitch kit includes those 2 support arms does not mean for me that other German SUV have less stout hitch setup. Those support arms can be part of the chassis, can't they? In fact, I recall that BMW X5 E53 (2 generations back) had some kind of inserts as part of the hitch kit (similar concept to GL I guess, but the inserts were shorter). E70 (the next generations) does not have the inserts and I believe that they increased the towing capacity for E70 vs. E53. My guess is that there is some kind of reinforcement built in the chassis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rostam View Post
The 2 support arms are part of the OEM hitch kit. Note that buying/installing a hitch and the associated electronics could cost around $2k (if you are retrofitting it). The factory tow package option is a steal at $550.
bono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2016, 11:37 AM   #60
Rivet Master
 
switz's Avatar

 
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction , Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,534
Images: 8
We tow our 2015 23D International Serenity with our existing 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel using a Hensley Arrow hitch. The car went to CanAm in October 2012 to have the factory receiver reinforced (it had been rewelded earlier in a recall). See photo in "Images" under my avatar. They also modified the Hendley stinger by taking about 5" off the car side and a slight downward bend to preload the weight distribution arms.
__________________

__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC

TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell

2014 31' Classic model 30 twin beds, 50 amp service, 900 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
switz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2013 airstream 23d flying cloud premium travel trailer brand new! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 06-06-2013 01:20 PM
2013 airstream 23d flying cloud premium travel trailer brand new! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 05-27-2013 06:40 PM
2010 Airstream Flying Cloud BRAND NEW!!!!! S2010 Airstream Flying Cloud BRAND NEW!! eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 11-03-2010 03:50 PM
touareg, bambi and weight distribution hitch ericwarren Hitches, Couplers & Balls 2 10-02-2008 09:19 PM
First road trip with Touareg and CCD... 67caravel Our Community 35 09-15-2004 01:06 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.